Haydn's Haus

[Que]

I have this disk of the 6 Scherzandi on Koch/Swann. Very enjoyable, and really, amazingly prescient of his future style (they were composed in 1761). This looks like a nice return of some good music to the catalog!

That release looks mighty fine. 
The three discs with works for the King of Naples seem enticing, though I already have the Notturni by the L'Archibudelli.




But it occurred to me that I'll soon own all (three) available recordings of the Baryton Octets!
This one includes them, I already have the Ricercar issue (wonderful BTW) and I discovered that the Brilliant issue of the Baryton Trios also includes the Octets and duos and a few works for baryton solo! I'm already overwhelmed by all this Haydn Luxury.



Q

[Gurn Blanston]

That release looks mighty fine. 
The three discs with works for the King of Naples seem enticing, though I already have the Notturni by the L'Archibudelli.




Q

Those noturrni are nice works. I just wanted to point out that these 2 versions are very different. The one by Consortium Classicum is the original arrangement from 1786 (7?). Since lire organnizatta no longer exist, they replaced it with the most marvelous sounding little barrel organ. The second version, the one by L'Archibudelli & Mozzafiato) is of the arrangements that Haydn made when these works were performed in London. The lire is replaced by standard instruments, the organ part is mainly in the flute. I don't which version that the Huss disk uses. If it is the first arrangement, I would be curious what instrument that he used to replace the lire.   

[Que]

Those noturrni are nice works. I just wanted to point out that these 2 versions are very different. The one by Consortium Classicum is the original arrangement from 1786 (7?). Since lire organnizatta no longer exist, they replaced it with the most marvelous sounding little barrel organ. The second version, the one by L'Archibudelli & Mozzafiato) is of the arrangements that Haydn made when these works were performed in London. The lire is replaced by standard instruments, the organ part is mainly in the flute. I don't which version that the Huss disk uses. If it is the first arrangement, I would be curious what instrument that he used to replace the lire.   

This is what BIS has to say about it:
'Concerti a Due Lire' for the King of Naples (1786) for flute, oboe, 2 horns, 2 violins, 2 violas, violoncello and violone*

* Concerto No. 1 is played by two flutes rather than flute and oboe

So, the 2nd version it seems.

Q

[Gurn Blanston]

This is what BIS has to say about it:
'Concerti a Due Lire' for the King of Naples (1786) for flute, oboe, 2 horns, 2 violins, 2 violas, violoncello and violone*

* Concerto No. 1 is played by two flutes rather than flute and oboe

So, the 2nd version it seems.

Q

Oh, I see now. Those are the concerti rather than the notturni. They are different works (Hob II opposed to Hob VIIh). The only concerti I have are on that "Delirium" disk. Which is not all of them, I don't think (in fact, on checking, I see it is one concerto and 2 notturni). So, this is even more interesting, new music!   In any case, I would agree, these are later arrangements that Haydn made, not the original scoring (it must have been hard to fill that part even in the day, outside of Italy). 

[Que]

Oh, I see now. Those are the concerti rather than the notturni. They are different works (Hob II opposed to Hob VIIh). The only concerti I have are on that "Delirium" disk. Which is not all of them, I don't think (in fact, on checking, I see it is one concerto and 2 notturni). So, this is even more interesting, new music!   In any case, I would agree, these are later arrangements that Haydn made, not the original scoring (it must have been hard to fill that part even in the day, outside of Italy). 

Oh, Oh, I mixed up things!

Full content of the issue is attached. But it seems the Notturni are scored with flute(s) as well.

Q

[Gurn Blanston]

Oh, Oh, I mixed up things!

Full content of the issue is attached. But it seems the Notturni are scored with flute(s) as well.

Q

OK, the notturni are the 2nd version too. Dadgum, I think I'll have to get this box, it looks like a delight.   Thanks for the listings, Q.

[SonicMan46]

Well, just reviewed most of this excellent thread (w/ a number of posts by myself) and glad that it has been 'kept alived' for nearly 2 years now - for those just getting into Papa Joe, some good recommendations; of course, his main 'output' for many interested are the Symphonies & String Quartets (many of us here have a LOT more!) - now, I'm pretty 'set' on the String Quartets, and I do own a lot of the Symphonies, but a 'mixed bag' of recordings w/ a lot of duplications.

So, maybe a good time to return to his Symphonies, i.e. I'd like to obtain a 'Complete Set' - the Fischer 33-CD box seems to be one of the top choices (already own a bunch of these performances) and just over $80 on the Amazon Marketplace; also own a lot of Goodman, which I enjoy, but not sure if a complete box (if even available) has been offered; I know that there are likely few choices, but 'anything new' that may have appeared in the last year or so that may be of interest - thanks all! 

P.S. - of course, the HIP vs. modern orchestra will also come into this consideration, as applicable - 

[Lethevich]

The Fischer set is essential at the moment, and will be for the forseeable future. While it is quite easy to suppliment a collection with additional S&D, Paris and London sets, the Dorati or Fischer sets are the only effective way to collect the interesting in-between works, and in terms of quality Fischer and his orchestra is miles ahead of Dorati IMHO.

While I have many other recordings of the symphonies, Fischer remains either my only or one of my top choices for the under-recorded works. The only slight downside is that he is too heavy in the early works, but fortunately there have been HIP recordings of at least some of those (Pinnock, Solomons - OOP, etc).

[Gurn Blanston]

Well, just reviewed most of this excellent thread (w/ a number of posts by myself) and glad that it has been 'kept alived' for nearly 2 years now - for those just getting into Papa Joe, some good recommendations; of course, his main 'output' for many interested are the Symphonies & String Quartets (many of us here have a LOT more!) - now, I'm pretty 'set' on the String Quartets, and I do own a lot of the Symphonies, but a 'mixed bag' of recordings w/ a lot of duplications.

So, maybe a good time to return to his Symphonies, i.e. I'd like to obtain a 'Complete Set' - the Fischer 33-CD box seems to be one of the top choices (already own a bunch of these performances) and just over $80 on the Amazon Marketplace; also own a lot of Goodman, which I enjoy, but not sure if a complete box (if even available) has been offered; I know that there are likely few choices, but 'anything new' that may have appeared in the last year or so that may be of interest - thanks all! 

P.S. - of course, the HIP vs. modern orchestra will also come into this consideration, as applicable - 

Yes, Dave, for reasons which defy common logic ("Oh, I hate Haydn, he sucks... "), we may have even made a few converts! I hope so, Haydn truly was a musical fountainhead!

Well, IMO you simply can't go wrong with the Fischer set. The playing is excellent, the sound is great, the price is right; what more could you ask?  As for HIPness, one of M's "pearls of wisdom" (and he had a lot of them, despite the herd of swine that often came along with them... ) was that Fisher's interpretations were more HIP than a lot of period versions are. And I tend to agree with that. These are players (from Central Europe, particularly Vienna) that have Haydn in their blood. They play great, and precisely how they should do.

And now, stop and think a minute, amigo. You have been holding back on that Complete Haydn box although you covet the baryton works in it, and you need the fortepiano trios and complete fortepiano works, you would like more of the string quartets from that set, and you are thinking about spending over half the cost of that box on something that is included in it already... hmmmm....     



----------------
Listening to:
Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment / Kuijken - Hob 01 082 Symphony #82 in C 1st mvmt - Vivace assai

[SonicMan46]

Sara & Gurn - well, as you can imagine my 'trigger finger' was about to be pulled! 

Already own about half dozen of the Fischer discs & a similar amount of the Goodman (plus, many others in the last Symphonies) - think that I can get about $20 from selling some of these CDs to a friend, so about $2 per disc - hard to beat that price! May go for it - Dave -     Thanks for the comments!

[Lethevich]

Does anyone have any recent discoveries or particular favourites amongst his symphonies?

I recently became enamored with the 39th, with its stormy opening movement (after hushed introduction) reminding me of Mozart's little G minor in the same key. Then there is that finale, which along with the 44th is among his most turbulent. Currently I have found myself attracted to his strange 46th. After the major 44 and 45, this is a much more compact work with some unusual features. The overall mood is typical unease for this period of his music, but it is not caused by that much overt drama, the work simply has a restless or ghostly quality to it which is reinforced by some formal differences to his other works including a very tight opening which is pinned down by a repeating four note theme similar to no.44, but used almost as a book-end between quiet passages rather than to begin a large theme. The finale is extremely odd, with a relaxed progress at odds with Haydn's usual motoring drive in these movements. It is full of small pauses and little impish skittering, sounding a little like a middle movement rather than a finale. Performers seem to have more diverse takes on this symphony than most of his others. Fischer plays up the contrasts, Brüggen seems to better highlight the mysterious qualities.

[Renfield]

Argh. Here I am, postponing my Haydn exploration for (yet more) late symphonic repertoire, and now you're going and tempting me.

[Lethevich]

Argh. Here I am, postponing my Haydn exploration for (yet more) late symphonic repertoire, and now you're going and tempting me.

I have been doing the opposite of that, making my listening rather more unbalanced -_- I think that Haydn (along with Mozart, Bach and Beethoven - less so the later Romantics) is one of those composers that when they bite you, it is possible to live in their world for a very long time without much regard for external happenings... Just say no

[mark4mich]

I have very little Haydn in my collection. Have the Paris and London Symphonies. MDT has special offers on Haydn. Was thinking of complete String Quartets by Angeles Quartet, complete Piano Sonatas by Buchbinder (are Jando, McCabe or Brautigan preferable), complete Piano Trios by Beaux Arts. Any thoughts on these selections? Any other recommendations to building a Haydn collection?

[Bulldog]

Getting off the "complete" plateau, I'd recommend the few piano sonata discs on Philips from Brendel.  Although I do have a complete piano sonata box on Brilliant Classics, I always head first for Brendel.

[Todd]

Complete Haydn sets can take quite a while to digest, though some complete sets make sense.  The Beaux Arts Trio set of complete piano trios is very worthwhile.  For the sonatas, Brautigam is vastly better than McCabe.  (I haven't heard, and do not plan to hear, the Buchbinder.)  For the string quartets, the Angeles are good, but much better can be had in a number of the quartets.  I've thought about swapping it for the Tatrai at some point, but I don't know if I'd be better off in the end.  (The Tatrai have one of the best Op 64 & 76 on the market, though.)  I'm surprised you didn't mention the complete symphonies.

Some non-complete recordins to consider might include:

Symphonies:
Paris & London - Harnoncourt, Bernstein

String Quartets
Op 20 - Mosaiques
Op 33 - Mosaiques
Op 64 - Mosaiques, Tatrai
Op 76 - Mosaiques, Budapest, Tatrai
Op 77 - Mosaiques

Piano Trios
Complete - Beaux Arts Trio

Piano Sonatas
Recitals by Anton Kueri, Fazil Say, Marc Andre Hamelin, Andras Schiff, Zoltan Kocsis, Alfred Brendel

The Creation
McCreesh

[mark4mich]

Thanks for the replies thus far. Don't have to go "complete" although sounds like the Beaux Arts trios are worthwhile. Are there specific piano sonatas and string quartets that you would start with? I already have recordings of the Paris and London Symphonies, so I would rather hold off on symphonies for now.

[Bogey]

This disc:

[Que]

I have very little Haydn in my collection. Have the Paris and London Symphonies. MDT has special offers on Haydn. Was thinking of complete String Quartets by Angeles Quartet, complete Piano Sonatas by Buchbinder (are Jando, McCabe or Brautigan preferable), complete Piano Trios by Beaux Arts. Any thoughts on these selections? Any other recommendations to building a Haydn collection?

Please check this very thread and also these threads:

Haydn's Keyboard Music
Haydn's Symphonies
Piano Trios
Haydn String Quartets

Q

[mark4mich]

Thanks Que, newbie to this forum, much appreciated.