Haydn's Haus

[DavidW]

Well, you answered my question anyways. Thanks!

Oh fiddlesticks I was tricked!

I had wanted to get the original '90s Auryn/Tacet, but it is HOOP (hopelessly out of print).

That's all I have and all I know for Auryn's Haydn, can't speak for the new ones.

[SonicMan46]

Presto UK sent me notice that my Buchberger/Brilliant set has finally shipped to USA.........will report soon
Meanwhile my used Mosaiques/Naive 5CD set from Amazon has just arrived:

DarkAngel - just put in an order from MDT for the Buchberger Box myself; also, would be interested in the 5-CD set w/ the Quatuor Mosaiques (already own them in the Op. 20 & 33 SQs) - curious to know 'how' that set is boxed (i.e. jewel boxes, sleeves, or other)?  Thanks - 

[DarkAngel]

DarkAngel - just put in an order from MDT for the Buchberger Box myself; also, would be interested in the 5-CD set w/ the Quatuor Mosaiques (already own them in the Op. 20 & 33 SQs) - curious to know 'how' that set is boxed (i.e. jewel boxes, sleeves, or other)?  Thanks -  

The picture shown is for outer slipcover, inside are 3 standard 1CD jewel cases and one chubby 2CD jewel case......5 Cds total
Each jewel case has its own booklet just like if you were buying them individually

Looks like the most recent flurry of activity here has sold a few Buchberger boxsets  
Presto UK price was $67.49 with $4 shipping to USA for Buchberger

[SonicMan46]

The picture shown is for outer slipcover, inside are 3 standard 1CD jewel cases and one chubby 2CD jewel case......5 Cds total
Each jewel case has its own booklet just like if you were buying them individually

Looks like the most recent flurry of activity here has sold a few Buchberger boxsets 
Presto UK price was $67.49 with $4 shipping to USA

Yep, I have the Mozart collection w/ single discs in jewel boxes - not a 'space saver' at all!  I guess this label (and also Capriccio & CPO) do the same, i.e offering these great multi-CD sets w/ the discs in jewel boxes - space is at a premium for me, so a disincentive to purchase these sets w/ that packaging - will need to think about it - thanks for the prompt response and information - Dave 

[greg]

Anyone have input on their favorite Haydn piano (keyboard, whatever) sonatas?
I've been going through them quite a bit the last few months... probably have heard all of them, but I'm only familiar with a few.
So far, I can say I like 47, 42, 43, 10, and another whose number I forgot among my favorites. Any I should pay special attention to?

[Gurn Blanston]

Anyone have input on their favorite Haydn piano (keyboard, whatever) sonatas?
I've been going through them quite a bit the last few months... probably have heard all of them, but I'm only familiar with a few.
So far, I can say I like 47, 42, 43, 10, and another whose number I forgot among my favorites. Any I should pay special attention to?

Well, his last 3, which were written in 1794 while he was in London, are pretty fine works by any standards. The Hoboken numbers are 50, 51 & 52, but they are very often called by their chronological numbers, which are 60, 61 & 62. They are, respectively, in C, D & Eb.



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Listening to:
Collegium musicum 90 - Richard Hickox - Hob 22 05 'Missa Cellensis' pt 05 - Gloria - 'Laudamus te'. Moderato

[greg]

Well, his last 3, which were written in 1794 while he was in London, are pretty fine works by any standards. The Hoboken numbers are 50, 51 & 52, but they are very often called by their chronological numbers, which are 60, 61 & 62. They are, respectively, in C, D & Eb.



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Listening to:
Collegium musicum 90 - Richard Hickox - Hob 22 05 'Missa Cellensis' pt 05 - Gloria - 'Laudamus te'. Moderato

Yeah, that crazy numbering system! 
(i was referring to the chronological numbers and not the Hob. ones when i said my favorites, btw- though i bet you figured that anyways  )

Well, I do remember not quite liking the very last- or at least, not liking the beginning of it- and liking, I think, the one before the last. But- just initial impressions- I'll pay attention to them and keep them in mind. Thanks, Gurn! 

[Gurn Blanston]

Yeah, that crazy numbering system! 
(i was referring to the chronological numbers and not the Hob. ones when i said my favorites, btw- though i bet you figured that anyways  )

Well, I do remember not quite liking the very last- or at least, not liking the beginning of it- and liking, I think, the one before the last. But- just initial impressions- I'll pay attention to them and keep them in mind. Thanks, Gurn! 

Yeah, drives me crazy too, especially in the sonatas which actually have an alternative system that works.

Well, if you don't care for that Eb one, you can always try #59 (49 ) which is also in Eb. I like it rather better, but there's no accounting for taste. Another which I quite like is the one in c# minor, which the Hob is 36, but really, it is sonata #49. It dates from back in 1780, but it and the 4 others that make up its little group (48-52) are really a nice group of works. Also, they are the very earliest ones that were written for piano, as opposed to harpsichord, which probably doesn't make any difference to you, except that the dynamics and such are now the composer's written ones instead of ones made up by the editor or a player. Just sayin'...



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Listening to:
Collegium musicum 90 - Richard Hickox - Hob 22 04 Missa in honorem BVM pt 07 - Credo - Et resurrexit

[greg]

Yeah, drives me crazy too, especially in the sonatas which actually have an alternative system that works.

Well, if you don't care for that Eb one, you can always try #59 (49 ) which is also in Eb. I like it rather better, but there's no accounting for taste. Another which I quite like is the one in c# minor, which the Hob is 36, but really, it is sonata #49. It dates from back in 1780, but it and the 4 others that make up its little group (48-52) are really a nice group of works. Also, they are the very earliest ones that were written for piano, as opposed to harpsichord, which probably doesn't make any difference to you, except that the dynamics and such are now the composer's written ones instead of ones made up by the editor or a player. Just sayin'...



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Listening to:
Collegium musicum 90 - Richard Hickox - Hob 22 04 Missa in honorem BVM pt 07 - Credo - Et resurrexit

Oh yeah, the set I have (Jando) mentions that fact about the later ones. It is interesting, too, though, that it wouldn't make a difference to the uninformed listener.

Also interesting... the last movement of the 1st sonata is 33 seconds long (and there's several in his early sonatas barely longer than that). This makes me laugh every time I think about it. It's just a repeated tune with one variation, and isn't even a page long. 

[Gurn Blanston]

Oh yeah, the set I have (Jando) mentions that fact about the later ones. It is interesting, too, though, that it wouldn't make a difference to the uninformed listener.

Also interesting... the last movement of the 1st sonata is 33 seconds long (and there's several in his early sonatas barely longer than that). This makes me laugh every time I think about it. It's just a repeated tune with one variation, and isn't even a page long. 

Yeah, that was pretty common back then. I have several by different composers, particularly 3rd movements where they are under a minute. 40-45 seconds is pretty standard. I'll post a score page tomorrow that I find interesting which illustrates this concept.



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Listening to:
Collegium musicum 90 - Richard Hickox - Hob 22 05 'Missa Cellensis' pt 09 - Gloria - 'Quoniam tu solus sanctus'. Allegro molto

[jlaurson]

- space is at a premium for me, so a disincentive to purchase these sets w/ that packaging - will need to think about it -

Then get these: http://www.jazzloft.com/p-34281-space-saving-cd-sleeves.aspx They work wonders for me... and they'll keep you from not getting the right performances for the wrong reasons.

[SonicMan46]

Then get these: http://www.jazzloft.com/p-34281-space-saving-cd-sleeves.aspx They work wonders for me... and they'll keep you from not getting the right performances for the wrong reasons.

Jens - yes - believe that you mentioned these sleeves in another thread which prompted me to buy a 'small' bundle; not sure that I like them, though, but certainly will vouch that their use would save space! 

[SonicMan46]

String Quartets Op. 17 w/ London Haydn Quartet on Hyperion (2-CDs for the price of one and in a slim jewel box) - these are marvelous performances (and will replace my Kodaly discs) w/ gut strings & classical bows - excellent review on MusicWeb HERE; I'm assuming that this will be on ongoing project?   

[greg]

Yeah, that was pretty common back then. I have several by different composers, particularly 3rd movements where they are under a minute. 40-45 seconds is pretty standard. I'll post a score page tomorrow that I find interesting which illustrates this concept.



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Listening to:
Collegium musicum 90 - Richard Hickox - Hob 22 05 'Missa Cellensis' pt 09 - Gloria - 'Quoniam tu solus sanctus'. Allegro molto

Awesome. Then again, I've done the same exact thing before. 

[jlaurson]

Jens - yes - believe that you mentioned these sleeves in another thread which prompted me to buy a 'small' bundle; not sure that I like them, though, but certainly will vouch that their use would save space! 

Hmm.... They're not working for you? Too slippery? I take it you are using them properly... if one 'pocket' is WIDER than the other (they are usually not exactly even), make sure it's on the right to take the back-cover and the CD. The booklet goes into the 'shorter' one on the left... the flipping it over just so that the spine-bend is at the place right between the pockets. The aesthetic of looking at spines is infringed upon, no doubt... but I find it the best compromise between looks, accessibility, and space/weight-savings. I just don't put SACDs in them, so that they stand out of the collection more prominently.

[Ciel_Rouge]

I have just been shocked to discover a keyboard sonata by Haydn that strongly resembles Beethoven's Moonlight:

Sonata in E Flat Adagio E Cantabile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWsNZoS6Ops

I never got very much into Haydn's music as the most famous pieces I stumbled upon were too much on the "jolly tune" side for me but having also discovered a symphony that appeared somewhat romantic, I changed my mind and decided to turn to Haydn recordings. Just thought I'd let you know about another Haydn convert.

[greg]

I have just been shocked to discover a keyboard sonata by Haydn that strongly resembles Beethoven's Moonlight:

Sonata in E Flat Adagio E Cantabile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWsNZoS6Ops

I never got very much into Haydn's music as the most famous pieces I stumbled upon were too much on the "jolly tune" side for me but having also discovered a symphony that appeared somewhat romantic, I changed my mind and decided to turn to Haydn recordings. Just thought I'd let you know about another Haydn convert.

It is similar...

[Antoine Marchand]

Considering that this sonata Hob. XVI:49 is known as "Genzinger Sonata" - because it was dedicated by Haydn to her noble friend Maria Anna ("Marianne") von Genzinger - probably THIS LINK to Haydn's Letters will be interesting (especially since June 20, 1790, letter number 46).

[Gurn Blanston]

I have just been shocked to discover a keyboard sonata by Haydn that strongly resembles Beethoven's Moonlight:

Sonata in E Flat Adagio E Cantabile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWsNZoS6Ops

I never got very much into Haydn's music as the most famous pieces I stumbled upon were too much on the "jolly tune" side for me but having also discovered a symphony that appeared somewhat romantic, I changed my mind and decided to turn to Haydn recordings. Just thought I'd let you know about another Haydn convert.

Awesome, I love having Haydn Converts stop in a visit.

Well, Antoine covered the history quite nicely. It is that sonata #59 that I mentioned to Greg the other night. Composed in early 1790. I will take you up on your idea of Beethoven's c# sonata sounding like it, I have it queued up next on the playlist.




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Listening to:
Vienna Philharnmonic / Karl Böhm 1970 - LvB Symphony #9 2nd mvmt - Molto vivace - Presto

[snyprrr]

As if by some miracle, a copy of the Buchberger's Opp. 54/55 appeared in a friend's pile of stuff. I'm sure I was hoping it would have rather have been Opp. 71/74, haha, but...

WOW!

I have only one compare apiece, Endellion/54, Lindsays/55, but from the VERY FIRST note, the Buchbergers appeared astonishingly caffeinated, sloppy, uninvolved, and, as has been said earlier, just a readthrough. The first mvmt. of 54/1 is taken so fast as to bring BugsBunny to mind; and, the same goes for the finale. The Endellion, by contrast, seem to play it just so.

The drama of 54/2 is totally lost, in both the first adagio, and the minuet.

The one thing the Buchbergers did interestingly was the first mvmt. of 54/3, which they took a hair faster than the Endellions, thereby, "congealing" for me, this mvmt., which, in the Endellions hands had given me pause when I first heard it. The Buchberger's playing of this mvmt. has certainly deepened my appreciation of it: there's no telling who's going to do which mvmt. the "perfect" way; however, in the rest of... everything... the Buchbergers come of as incredibly scrappy indeed... bordering on the jawdroppingly bad Haydn playing.

This was truly a revelation, and will be very interested to hear from everyone who has now purchased this set. I can't but in horror wonder if the rest of their stuff is equally third world. Of course, if you disagree with me on 54/55, please do let me know, but, judging from the level of quality amoungst the congregation here, I don't think any of you will hear any poetry coming from this set. I know that Jens has been a very vocal critic of this group, and I simply believe that he hasn't been forceful enough. Truly, as far as four people playing 54/55 on a recording, this I can imagine (in a small field of contenders) IS THE WORST!!! Readthrough.

Even if they get the tempo right elsewhere, or actually play better, I don't think the recording itself will give to much pleasure. The instruments themselves have an unflatteringly raw sound, and the recording is a bit bright and gritty.

They were so bad I was starting to get a thrill, and felt guilty.



Please, please, PLEASE consider this warning, all future potential buyers, until such time as we have truly gotten to the bottom of this. My take is, if the rest of the set sounds anything like 54/55, in sound or performance, than this is THE set to stay away from AT ALL COSTS$$$!!!$$$!!!

DANGER WILL ROBINSON, DANGER! DANGER!


Can I get a witness?