Haydn's Haus

[Gurn Blanston]

Thanks for that, Antoine. I might have been tempted without knowing. Guess I'll stay with my current version;

with Tom Beghin and Andrea Folan. It reeks of the qualities that you mentioned.

[jlaurson]

Thursday, 8.26.10, 3:00 pm

Haydn – The String Quartets (Part 5)
op.33

[snyprrr]

Thursday, 8.26.10, 3:00 pm

Haydn – The String Quartets (Part 5)
op.33

Y'know,...tap,tap,tap,... we haaave a Thread for this,...tap,tap,tap,,,



jus kiddin !!



Great overview,... I gotta throw the Lindsays into the mix. I don't have them right here, but I'll check against your timings. I think, in this particular Opus, the Lindsays satisfy every requirement that you have outlined above. They totally bring out the impish character of the music, the cheer, and the springy, summery sunshine. I implore all to give them a shot in this set particularly (I hear no evidence of "that"!). And, the ASV sound is perfect. You may not agree with all their choices, but, garauteed, they haaaave considered e-ver-y choice, and do something exciting always.

The overall sound in the Kodaly, as you mentioned, for me, sounds like a German beer hall, which, for this music, brings out the jollity indeed!

The Apponyi is the alternative I've been wanting to get (but I'm such an original issue junkie ). You have confirmed their overall victory.

...ah, Jens' love for the Festetics is legendary...

Also, I hear the Tatrai's intonation issues are particularly bad in Op.33.

What about the Weller/Decca?



btw-I was wanting to hear about the Auryn Op.20. Any word?

[DavidRoss]

Thanks again, Jens--better you than I.    Think I'll take a break from Sibelius and spin some of the Mosaiques's op 33. 

[jlaurson]

Y'know,...tap,tap,tap,... we haaave a Thread for this,...tap,tap,tap,,,

Where is it again? Let's unabashedly re-post. 

Great overview,... I gotta throw the Lindsays into the mix. I don't have them right here, but I'll check against your timings.
The overall sound in the Kodaly, as you mentioned, for me, sounds like a German beer hall, which, for this music, brings out the jollity indeed!
The Apponyi is the alternative I've been wanting to get (but I'm such an original issue junkie ). You have confirmed their overall victory.
...ah, Jens' love for the Festetics is legendary...
Also, I hear the Tatrai's intonation issues are particularly bad in Op.33.
btw-I was wanting to hear about the Auryn Op.20. Any word?

1.) I would have liked to include the Lindsays; I even think I have at least one of their op.33 recordings (seeing that they have always been split), but it's in storage... and the recordings are now out of print. Which means that even if someone had sent them to me, they still couldn't have been a particularly meaningful recommendation.
2.) Apponyi really is a wonderful surprise; a little bit rougher than the ice-cream-HIPness of the Mosaiques, but still perfectly capable of satisfying non-HIP-seeking Haydn lovers, too.
3.) Festetics... hey, I hear what I have to hear. You can call it a matter of priorities (i.e. if you don't give a #&$^@ about intonation or playing with a steady pitch), but I'm just objectively reporting what's there.   
4.) Buggers at Hungaroton wouldn't send me the Tatrai... perhaps it's for the better that they didn't?
5.) Auryn op.20 is out... did I not review that? [Checking: ah, yes, no, I didn't. I have it, though.... perhaps a follow-up. But probably not before late October or November...]

[jlaurson]

reposted as per nudge:



Thursday, 8.26.10, 3:00 pm

Haydn – The String Quartets (Part 5)
op.33

[SonicMan46]

Hi Jens - thanks for the excellent & quite extensive review - glad that I own at least two of the sets that you seem to enjoy!  Dave 

[snyprrr]

Where is it again? Let's unabashedly re-post. 

It's in the Great Recordings blah under Haydn String Quartets. I haven't checked yet to see if you've found it, but yes, for the Newcomer, please re=post! We will have the most KickAssHaydnSQThreadEVER!!

[Herman]

Here's the inevitable comment. I find it strange that you don't include major or comprehensive Haydn SQ recordings such as the Tatrai and the Angeles. And I don't see any need for the horse race format in which at the end the Quatuor Mosaiques "reigns supreme"  -  even though many worthy recordings haven't even been mentioned in the review. This winner-takes-all format was perhaps useful in times when recordings were few, and people had to go out of their way to purchase a record. Nowadays everything is pretty much available (including recordings that have been retired), so what people really need is a good descriptive critique, and make up their own minds, which you do too.

[Que]

[...] so what people really need is a good descriptive critique, and make up their own minds, which you do too.

I very much agree. Though one thing becomes very clear from Jens' Haydn SQ reviews: if you like technically incompetent playing and intonation problems - the Festetics Qt is the way to go!

Some alternative views on the Festetics' take on Haydn's Opus 33:

"This important period-instrument set of the quartets is now complete, against the odds, just in time for the 200th anniversary of the death of the most neglected of first-rank composers. Against the odds, the Festetics set is complete at last. For a decade, the Festetics have been releasing superbly springy recordings of Haydn's quartets on the Arcana label. But the death of the label's founder and producer Michel Bernstein a couple of years ago left the project one volume short: since then, I have hardly been able to look at my CD shelf, so maddening was it see the sequence of black spines: 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. And now you'll have to excuse me while I head over to the CD player..."
The Daily Telegraph, April 2009

"Tuning, balance and blend are impeccable; vibrato is not avoided, but used to specific expressive or colouristic effect. Those who hanker for a combination of the clarity of the best 'period' playing, with the warmth of the Hungarian tradition will find it here."
BBC Music Magazine, August 2009 ****

"The veteran Festetics Quartet are uneasy with presto finales. But they aren't slack; instead they are tautly metrical so the notes do not flow freely across the bar-lines. It may be an aspect of their style that is direct, sharp in attack and stricter than usual in rhythm, yet far from indifferent. In all the works these musicians meticulously observe phrase indications, choose dynamics where there are none, repeat both parts of a Minuet after its Trio and differentiate between the various accents. Equally meticulously they probe the slow movements of Op 33. Haydn is said to have been in love at the time he wrote this set; and, austerity of approach notwithstanding, it is easy to discern in, say, the Largo of No 4 an ardent lyric for the lady, Luigia Polzelli. Not unexpectedly, the Largo e cantabile of No 5 is seen in an even more ascetic light, G minor starkly affirmed, the violins (antiphonally separated, as always with this group) contributing to a bare-boned interpretation of the text. Not comfortable. But the Festetics don't buy comfort and the close, 'rosiny' sound brings the results right into the room. No mistaking the message. No mistaking the gauntlets either.
Unsettling – but required listening."
Gramophone Classical Music Guide, 2010


"A few years ago, the Festetics was one of my two favorite period-instrument ensembles for early-to-middle Haydn quartets (the Mosaïques was the other). It plays accurately, crisply, and in tune, with close respect for markings in the score, and it plays every repeat, including Menuets da capo. Its pitch (A = 421 Hz) would have seemed terribly low two decades ago but now feels just right. All these characteristics are reinforced by this new set, recorded in 2006 in Budapest. So what happened? Along came the Buchberger, on Brilliant Classics. It plays repeats when and if it chooses—seldom the second ones in sonata-form movements, and never in Menuets da capo. It is rather casual about score markings; staccatos are often elided. It plays period instruments at modern pitch. But it gives fresh, vital performances; its first violin and its cello are gorgeous, individual lines are always clear, and ensemble blend is ravishing.

In many of these quartets, the Buchberger makes the Festetics seem dry and lifeless. Case in point: the Presto finale of the B-Minor Quartet (op. 33/1) is played correctly and cleanly by the Festetics, and yet a sense of caution is in the air; at exactly the same tempo, the Buchberger's Presto blazes with brilliant excitement. The dry, clear Arcana recording allows every detail to be heard; the slightly more reverberant Brilliant Classics one may be less observant, but its warmth and sheen are more listener friendly. In the opening Allegro moderato of the C-Major Quartet (op. 33/3), the Festetics' reading begins to suggest a cutesy "Papa Haydn"—despite their period-practice credentials—whereas the Buchberger is strong and direct. Five measures before the close of the Andante of the D-Major (op. 33/6), the Festetics first violin plays a fancier, longer (and lovely) cadenza than that by the Buchberger, but the latter's cello holds a gorgeous pedal note throughout, while the Festetics plays unaccompanied. My Dover score shows a whole note—the cadenza comes in the middle of a measure—but it's reasonable to play the cadenza as a solo.

I must recommend this set, because these are excellent, cleanly recorded performances that meet the most exacting (and politically correct) standards. But I myself will keep listening to the Buchberger's op. 33, op. 42, and all the Haydn quartets up through op. 64. Call it my secret shame. This set is being advertised as the final volume of the Festetics' complete Haydn string quartets, but the label's Web site, www.arcana.eu, does not list any of those prior to op. 9, nor 'The Seven Last Words.'"
FANFARE: James H. North

"The Festetics Quartet are a Hungarian periodinstrument group intent on a complete Haydn cycle, though of their two previous instalments the set of Op. 9 (favourably reviewed by Si, 10/89) seems to have disappeared from the catalogue after about three months. Like HE I wasn't overenamoured with their recent disc of Opp. 77 and 103 (7/91), finding much of the playing too temperate and straitlaced, for all its austere integrity. This new set of Op. 33, I'm happy to say, sounds much more vital and committed. True, the Festetics' characteristic sonority is slightly dusty, more vibrato-shy than most period-instrument groups. But their playing has plenty of colour, dynamic variety and subtlety of detail.
The performance of No. 3 is particularly successful: the first movement, with its wide harmonic reach, is beautifully paced and shaped; and, to mention a couple of details, the initial repeated quavers and the first violin's subsequent sustained
G glide in almost imperceptibly (an effect much 46 easier to obtain with gut strings and the lighter, eighteenth-century bows), while the players find a wonderfully blanched, spectral tone for the mysterious sequence at the heart of the development (4'23"ff). In the grave, veiled scherzo ("nowhere else. . . in all music does C major sound so dark", in Rosemary Hughes's words) the Festetics are hushed and intent, never seeking to raise their voice, as many groups do, above the prescribed sotto voce; and without breaking any speed records they capture vividly the Slavonic finale's brilliance, wit and astringency.
Quartet No. 6 also comes off specially well, its 6/8 opening movement slower than usual but done with delicacy, grace and a touch of whimsy, the D minor Andante tender and absorbed—magical pianissimo playing here. And at the opposite end of the spectrum the Festetics bring a terrific bite and élan to the scherzo of No, 1 (done at a cracking one-in-a-bar), and deliciously milk the portamentos that Haydn introduces in the Trio of No. 2. Incidentally, these performances are based on the texts in the new Complete Edition of Haydn's works (Henle Verlag); and if you follow them with, say the Eulenburg miniature scores, you'll notice many discrepancies of phrasing and dynamics, and at one salient point even in the actual notes—at the start of the recapitulation in No. l's opening movement (bar 59, 422") the second violin's A naturals (an old editorial 'correction') are here rightly played as A sharps, giving the phrase a quite different meaning.
One or two movements do bring disappointment. In the finales of Nos. 2 and 4, for instance, the Festetics are a bit staid, not quite capturing the music's sportive wit; and in the variation finale of No. 5 the phrasing of the siciliano rhythms is rather flat. Two of the slow movements also raise doubts: that in No. 2 sounds distinctly brisk and prosaic for Haydn's Largo sostermuto, and tuning is occasionally uncomfortable, while for me the quasi-operatic G minor aria in No. 5 suffers from the leader's almost invariable habit of making a decrescendo on sustained notes—an expressive effect when applied selectively but here taken to excess. But don't let these provisos put you off. In the main this is stylish, imaginative, sharply detailed playing, although the recording is distinctly resonant. The Festetics certainly eclipse the rival set."
R.W. Gramophone August 1992

Q

[jlaurson]

...I don't see any need for the horse race format in which at the end the Quatuor Mosaiques "reigns supreme"  -  even though many worthy recordings haven't even been mentioned in the review... what people really need is a good descriptive critique, and make up their own minds, which you do too.

If that's all you can take away from nearly 2500 words, than I have failed, indeed.
And if every comparative review is doomed if it fails to mention all other recordings available (or not available), then I loath to think what the effort would be like, to review the Alpine Symphony, or the Ring Cycle, or Mozart's Symphony No.40. I don't know anyone--certainly not me--who is paid enough to actually do that.

As per BBC Magazine's priceless quote "Tuning, balance and blend are impeccable...". Wow! That's no longer a disagreement or a matter of taste, that's just a brazen lie.   

[At least WETA (or ionarts or I) isn't / aren't dependent (or even benefiting in any way) on / from advertisements from the record industry. I trust Gramophone is still reasonably independent (though panning the Rattle-Vienna-Beethoven cycle was their last true act of courage), but even there the wiggle room is getting smaller and smaller.]

[Scarpia]

I've been working my way through Dorati's set of Haydn symphonies (for years now) and I am stuck in the mid 30's.  It seems to be a dull period in Haydn's output, the Allegro's strike me as lacking invention.  The slow movements are often the high point, at least when they feature solo instruments.  I listened to 36 most recently, and it had some lovely music for violin and cello solo.  I seem to remember one a few symphonies ago having lovely writing for flute and/or other woodwind solo.  But generally I am finding these less interesting than the earlier symphonies, which had an awkward experimental character to them which gave them some novelty.

Maybe I need to skip ahead to the end and work backwards. 

P.S., I can't help but think, these symphonies were probably performed by Dorati once for the recording, then never again.  Listening, I can just imagine the conversation over the intercom: 

Engineer:  "Come on, Antal, what's holding you up.  We have to record 35, 36, 37, 38, and re-do the finale from 33 before lunch.  That ballet class has rented the hall for the afternoon."

Dorati:  "Why do we have to re-do 33?"

Engeineer:  "Don't you remember, we recorded the movement before we realized that the oboe player had gone to the toilet"

Dorati:  "Aw, I don't think the oboe has anything interesting in that movement anyway."

[Gurn Blanston]

  Not entirely sure that Haydn was enamored of oboes anyway...

But look, you can't take Hoboken at face value. I know you were willing to cut some slack to the first 20 or so, but the fact is that they aren't really the first 20. Here are a few examples of where the "Hob 30's" fit in, actually. (from "Haydn Chronicle & Works" by H.C. Robbins-Landon):

Symphony #2 (1759) -   Hob 37
Symphony #12 (1760) - Hob 32
Symphony #15 (1760) - Hob 33
Symphony #26 (1761) - Hob 36

Etc. etc. etc. Considering that 6, 7 & 8 (Morning, Noon & Night) are from 1761 also, and sound (to me) relatively more advanced, you can see where the Hob. #'s are just not something to go by. Difficult as it may be to get them out of your head... 

[Scarpia]

  Not entirely sure that Haydn was enamored of oboes anyway...

But look, you can't take Hoboken at face value. I know you were willing to cut some slack to the first 20 or so, but the fact is that they aren't really the first 20. Here are a few examples of where the "Hob 30's" fit in, actually. (from "Haydn Chronicle & Works" by H.C. Robbins-Landon):

Symphony #2 (1759) -   Hob 37
Symphony #12 (1760) - Hob 32
Symphony #15 (1760) - Hob 33
Symphony #26 (1761) - Hob 36

Etc. etc. etc. Considering that 6, 7 & 8 (Morning, Noon & Night) are from 1761 also, and sound (to me) relatively more advanced, you can see where the Hob. #'s are just not something to go by. Difficult as it may be to get them out of your head... 

Now I'm confused.  The Dorati set doesn't mention HOB numbers, just "Symphony No so-and-so"   Are those numbers "HOB" numbers?  I guess it boils down to this.  You wrote "Symphony #2 (1759) -   Hob 37".  Would that one be listed as Symphony No 2, or Symphony No 37 in Dorati's set?

[Gurn Blanston]

Now I'm confused.  The Dorati set doesn't mention HOB numbers, just "Symphony No so-and-so"   Are those numbers "HOB" numbers?  I guess it boils down to this.  You wrote "Symphony #2 (1759) -   Hob 37".  Would that one be listed as Symphony No 2, or Symphony No 37 in Dorati's set?

Well, I was afraid this would happen... I don't have Dorati's big set, just a few singles like the Paris and "6, 7 & 8" disks. However, I can say by looking at those that he simply used Hob. numbers as "Symphony #X". So, Hob. I:12 he calls "Symphony #12". Which clearly it wasn't. The numbers that I use are the actual chronological number (as well as can be determined). So MY "Symphony #12 (Hob I:32)" is actually the 12th symphony that he composed, while Dorati's (Hob I:12) is actually the 27th symphony composed (in 1763).  I hope that makes a little more sense. Meanwhile I will pop together a complete chronological  with a concordance. That should help a lot!

[Scarpia]

Well, I was afraid this would happen... I don't have Dorati's big set, just a few singles like the Paris and "6, 7 & 8" disks. However, I can say by looking at those that he simply used Hob. numbers as "Symphony #X". So, Hob. I:12 he calls "Symphony #12". Which clearly it wasn't. The numbers that I use are the actual chronological number (as well as can be determined). So MY "Symphony #12 (Hob I:32)" is actually the 12th symphony that he composed, while Dorati's (Hob I:12) is actually the 27th symphony composed (in 1763).  I hope that makes a little more sense. Meanwhile I will pop together a complete chronological  with a concordance. That should help a lot!

Well, makes sense.  A conversion table would be helpful.  There isn't one on the web somewhere?

[Gurn Blanston]

OK, here is a concordance. This should be most helpful.  0:)

HRL Number   Hob Number   Key   Year                                      Name
      1                       1            D    1758   
      2                      37     C   1759 - 1760   
      3                      18            G   1759 - 1760   
      4                      19            D    1759 - 1760   
      5                       2            C   1759 - 1760   
      6                     108   Bb   1759 - 1760                   Symphony B
      7                      16           Bb   1759 - 1760   
      8                      17           F   1759 - 1760   

Well, spacing them all out is too time-consuming, but one can accomplish that either mentally or on their own. The data is all there anyway, and as correct as possible given the limited materials that one has to work with.

9   15   D    1759 - 1760   
10   4   D    1759 - 1760   
11   10   D    1759 - 1760   
12   32   C   1759 - 1760   
13   5   A   1759 - 1760   
14   11   E   1759 - 1760   
15   33   C   1759 - 1760   
16   27   G   1759 - 1760   
18   3   G   1759 - 1760   
18a   107   Bb   1759 - 1760   Symphony A - also in version for stringquartet
19   20   C   1759 - 1760   
20   6   D    1761   Matin / Morning
21   7   C   1761   Midi / Afternoon
22   8   G   1761   Soir / Evening
23   9   C   1762   
24   25   C   1762   
25   14   A   1761 - 1762   
26   36   Eb   1761 - 1762   
27   12   E   1763   
28   13   D    1763   
29   40   F   1763   
30   72   D   1763   
31   21   A   1764   
32   22   Eb   1764   Philosopher
33   23   G   1764   
34   24   D    1764   
35   30   C   1765   Alleluia
36   29   E   1765   
37   31   D    1765   Hornsignal / Auf dem Anstand
38   28   A   1765   
39   34   D - d   1765   
40   39   g   1766 - 1767   
41   35   Bb   01/12/1767   
42   59   A   1767   Fire
43   38   C   1767 - 1768   
44   44   e   1772   Trauer / Mourning
45   58   F   1768   
46   26     d   1768 - 1769   Lamentazione / Weihnacht / Christmas
47   41   C   1770 - 1771   
48   48   C   1768 - 1770   Maria Theresia
49   49   f   1770 - 1771   La Passione
50   52   c   1770 - 1771   
51   43   Eb   1770 - 1771   Merkur / Mercury
52   42   D   1771   
53   51   B   1771 - 1773   
54   45   f#   1772   Farewell
55   46   B   1772   
56   47   G   1772   Palindrome
57   65   C   1772 - 1773   
58   50   C   1773   In Nomine Domini
59   64   A   1773   Tempora Mutantur
60   54   G   1774   
61   55   Eb   1774   Der Schulmeister / Schoolmaster
62   56   C   1774   
63   57   D   1774   
64   60   C   1774   Il distratto
65   68   Bb   1774 - 1775   
66   66   Bb   1775 - 1776   
67   69   C   1775 - 1776   Loudon
68   67   F   1775 - 1776   
69   61   D   1776   
70   53   D   1777 - 1779   L'Imperiale
71   63   C   1777 - 1780   La Roxelane
72   70   D   1779   Mit Pauken und Trumpeten
73   75   Bb   1779   
74   71   Bb   1779 - 1780   
75   62   D   1779 - 1781   Variation on No. 53
76   74   Eb   1780 - 1781   
77   73   D   1780 - 1782   La Chasse, first the ouverture of the opera La fedelta premiata
78   76   Eb   1782   
79   77   Bb   1782   
80   78   c   1782   
81   79   F   1784   novembre 1784
82   80   d   1784   8-11-1784
83   81   G   1784   8-11-1784
84   87   A   1785   
85   85   Bb   1785   La Reine / Queen
86   83   g   1785   La Poule / Hen
87   84   Eb   1786   
88   86   D   1786   
89   82   C   1786   L'Ours / Bear
90   88   G   1787   
91   89   F   1787   
92   90   C   1788   
93   91   Eb   1788   
94   92   G   1789   Oxford
95   95   c   1791   
96   96   D   1791   Miracle
97   93   D   1791   
98   94   G   1792   Mit dem Paukenschlag / Surprise
99   98   Bb   1792   
100   97   C   1792   
101   99   Eb   1793   
102   100   G   1794   Military
103   101   D   1794   Clock / Uhr
104   102   Bb   1794   
105   103   Eb   1795   Mit dem Paukenwirbel / Drumroll
106   104   D   1795   London / Salomon
   105   Bb   1792   Sinfonia concertante
   106   D   1796   only 1 part, ouverture to opera Le pescatrici


----------------
Now playing:
Haydn - 76 1 Dm Op76 2 HobIII 76 Erdody 2 Fifths Allegro

[Gurn Blanston]

Well, makes sense.  A conversion table would be helpful.  There isn't one on the web somewhere?

I typed mine out of a book into a spread sheet (as you can now see, it doesn't convert easily to text).



----------------
Now playing:
Haydn - 76 3 Dm Op76 2 HobIII 76 Erdody 2 Fifths Menuet Allegro ma non troppo

[Lethevich]

The German wikipedia article has a table that can be rearranged by column (weirdly the English one does not):

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_Sinfonien_Joseph_Haydns

[Opus106]

Whipped up a little script which put all the raw data (thanks, Gurn) into table tags. Still, I could format them only so much because I think BBCode tables are not as configurable -- i.e., don't have as many attributes -- as HTML ones.

HRL	Hob	Key	Year	Name
1	1	D	1758
2	37	C	1759 - 1760
3	18	G	1759 - 1760
4	19	D	1759 - 1760
5	2	C	1759 - 1760
6	108	Bb	1759 - 1760	Symphony B
7	16	Bb	1759 - 1760
8	17	F	1759 - 1760
9	15	D	1759 - 1760
10	4	D	1759 - 1760
11	10	D	1759 - 1760
12	32	C	1759 - 1760
13	5	A	1759 - 1760
14	11	E	1759 - 1760
15	33	C	1759 - 1760
16	27	G	1759 - 1760
18	3	G	1759 - 1760
18a	107	Bb	1759 - 1760	Symphony A - also in version for stringquartet
19	20	C	1759 - 1760
20	6	D	1761	Matin / Morning
21	7	C	1761	Midi / Afternoon
22	8	G	1761	Soir / Evening
23	9	C	1762
24	25	C	1762
25	14	A	1761 - 1762
26	36	Eb	1761 - 1762
27	12	E	1763
28	13	D	1763
29	40	F	1763
30	72	D	1763
31	21	A	1764
32	22	Eb	1764	Philosopher
33	23	G	1764
34	24	D	1764
35	30	C	1765	Alleluia
36	29	E	1765
37	31	D	1765	Hornsignal / Auf dem Anstand
38	28	A	1765
39	34	D - d	1765
40	39	g	1766 - 1767
41	35	Bb	01/12/1767
42	59	A	1767	Fire
43	38	C	1767 - 1768
44	44	e	1772	Trauer / Mourning
45	58	F	1768
46	26	d	1768 - 1769	Lamentazione / Weihnacht / Christmas
47	41	C	1770 - 1771
48	48	C	1768 - 1770	Maria Theresia
49	49	f	1770 - 1771	La Passione
50	52	c	1770 - 1771
51	43	Eb	1770 - 1771	Merkur / Mercury
52	42	D	1771
53	51	B	1771 - 1773
54	45	f#	1772	Farewell
55	46	B	1772
56	47	G	1772	Palindrome
57	65	C	1772 - 1773
58	50	C	1773	In Nomine Domini
59	64	A	1773	Tempora Mutantur
60	54	G	1774
61	55	Eb	1774	Der Schulmeister / Schoolmaster
62	56	C	1774
63	57	D	1774
64	60	C	1774	Il distratto
65	68	Bb	1774 - 1775
66	66	Bb	1775 - 1776
67	69	C	1775 - 1776	Loudon
68	67	F	1775 - 1776
69	61	D	1776
70	53	D	1777 - 1779	L'Imperiale
71	63	C	1777 - 1780	La Roxelane
72	70	D	1779	Mit Pauken und Trumpeten
73	75	Bb	1779
74	71	Bb	1779 - 1780
75	62	D	1779 - 1781	Variation on No. 53
76	74	Eb	1780 - 1781
77	73	D	1780 - 1782	La Chasse, first the ouverture of the opera La fedelta premiata
78	76	Eb	1782
79	77	Bb	1782
80	78	c	1782
81	79	F	1784	novembre 1784
82	80	d	1784	8-11-1784
83	81	G	1784	8-11-1784
84	87	A	1785
85	85	Bb	1785	La Reine / Queen
86	83	g	1785	La Poule / Hen
87	84	Eb	1786
88	86	D	1786
89	82	C	1786	L'Ours / Bear
90	88	G	1787
91	89	F	1787
92	90	C	1788
93	91	Eb	1788
94	92	G	1789	Oxford
95	95	c	1791
96	96	D	1791	Miracle
97	93	D	1791
98	94	G	1792	Mit dem Paukenschlag / Surprise
99	98	Bb	1792
100	97	C	1792
101	99	Eb	1793
102	100	G	1794	Military
103	101	D	1794	Clock / Uhr
104	102	Bb	1794
105	103	Eb	1795	Mit dem Paukenwirbel / Drumroll
106	104	D	1795	London / Salomon
	105	Bb	1792	Sinfonia concertante
	106	D	1796	only 1 part, ouverture to opera Le pescatrici