Haydn's Haus

[Bogey]

Enjoying two discs worth of Haydn this morning....

[jlaurson]

I can't take the suspense any more!! Is there a verdict?!!

The fact that there isn't a verdict is probably a verdict. Very nice, of course... but didn't really bowl me over. I hope that satiates the suspense until I actually *do* get around to op.76. :-)

[Al Moritz]

I have listened to the splendid symphonies # 46 and 47, and found them really experimental sounding. It is amazing how Haydn could create out of just that four-bar, 6 second, opening motif with a slightly strange ending:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._46_(Haydn)

an exposition (which is repeated) of one and a half minutes.

***

In terms of listening appeal, the Haydn symphonies are often not quite as accessible and perhaps memorable on first encounter as, say, a Beethoven symphony. However, they grow upon repeated listening. In that respect, they remind me more of string quartets, also Beethoven string quartets. In any case, so much great music there in this collection of symphonies, most of which is virtually never performed. Modern music is not the only music that encounters that fate, apparently.

It is now clear to me that, had I too choose for a desert island between Beethoven's 9 symphonies or Haydn's 104 symphonies, I would choose the latter. Granted, Haydn hasn't written any instrumental work as grand as Beethoven's Third or Ninth, but the sheer amount of musical inventions in the 104 symphonies is just staggering -- not surprising, given this number of symphonies, and consistent input of genius.

[Al Moritz]

Today was a great Haydn day. I am still addicted to the symphonies, which still, after 7 (?) weeks are virtually my sole listening occupation at home.

Tried # 90 and loved it, and continued with # 45 (Farewell) which has grown on me tremendously. Then # 48, an old favorite of mine, which was confirmed today. Why is this colorful symphony not a fixture in the concert repertoire? This was followed by # 49, "La Passione" another immensely attractive work. Closed the session with a repeat of # 90 which is now a new favorite of mine. The opening movmt. is so full of ideas and dense energy, and complex as well, even though it appears to be built on just a few basic motifs. The slow mvmt. features beautiful variations and unexpected surprises, and the minuet must be one of Haydns best, most energetic and complex ones. The finale is one of the most irresistible examples of the mix of quickfooted and rough, forward pressing energy which is Haydn excels in.

[alkan]

Hello Al,

Haydn is my favourite composer too.       

Since you are in the S&D period right now, have you listened to the finale of No 44?     I find it to be quite extraordinary ..... probably the "angriest" music written at the time  (apart from the 1st movement of No 45).     You seem to be listening to the Dorati set, but unfortunately this version of 44 is rather poor.     Far too slow and deliberate.   The HIP performances are much better.       I can email you a MP3 file attachment if you can send me an address or suggest a way of doing it.     I looked at GMG PM, but I could not find a way to attach a file .....     

For symphony No 90, no-one has performed it better than Dorati.    I always return to this wonderful version .... 

[karlhenning]

Hoy, Al! Haven't seen you about in an age!

[Al Moritz]

Hoy, Al! Haven't seen you about in an age!

I know. Hi Karl!

[Al Moritz]

Alkan,

Thanks for your comments. So which performance would you recommend for # 44?

A new favorite is now symphony # 42. It appears to be the first Haydn symphony where both the first and the slow movement are really expansive, and thus it seems a turning point in the composer's symphonic career. Everything flows into each other so well in the first mvmt., and the slow mvmt. is just exquisite and gorgeous. Captivating is also that the finale most of the time is rather subdued, yet with powerful undercurrents, and then goes full throttle in just the few last measures.

While I could imagine that symphony # 44 could have been done better than Dorati does (it is questionable if the final mvmt. is really 'presto' in his hands), symphony # 42 is done incredibly well by Dorati. Yes, I could imagine it done differently, but not substantially better.

Symphony # 54 is also moving up for me as a composition, repeated listening makes it more and more interesting.

Recent revisiting of # 51 thru 53 was rewarding as well.

Interesting to make comparisons with other music of the time period, especially when done 'blindly', i.e. without knowing in advance who the composer is. Ten days ago I tuned into the slow movement of a symphony of the time period and listened to the end. Sophisticated modulations and injection of ideas that would seem on the level of genius suggested a great composer, but the whole thing just didn't have the sparkle and freshness that I would associate with Haydn. I would have been disappointed had it have been him. Turns out, it was  symphony # 33 by Mozart. Again my opinion about Mozart was fortified. A great composer but not as great as he is often made out to be. He has produced some works that are truly transcending, but not everything he wrote is 'gold from the heavens'.

A few days ago I tuned into just the finale of another symphony. It seemed really well and competently composed, but rather linearly exploring just one or two ideas without, as so often happens with Haydn, any surprising injection of phrases that seem entirely new ideas, even if they are 'just' variations on the previously exposed basic material. Therefore I was quite confident that this wasn't Haydn either, and it wasn't. It was Vanhal.

Given these experiences, I believe I am starting to get more of a grip on what Haydn's genius is all about.

[DavidRoss]

Hey, Al--great to see you! 

Haydn's been my main squeeze this year, too, starting with Jacobs's splendid Creation recording, then the Quatuor Mosaïques quartet recordings, then Wispelwey's cello ctos, Brautigam's piano ctos, and finally plumped for Brüggen's 13 disc set of symphonies.  After the dust settled, it's the quartets that I think will give me the most lasting pleasure.

[snyprrr]

Lindsay Op.76 (rec. 1998)

The wait is over! I do believe I've got my keeper here. Right now I've only got 1-3, but No.1 comes off very well indeed. Technically, in No.1, absolutely nothing is out of the ordinary as compares to pretty much anyone else, except for in the slow mvmt, where they take about 1min. longer than anyone I'm comparing to (7 compares). In the Menuet & Finale, the Lindsays are equal to anyone, and carry an extra dimension of enthusiasm that can be heard.

Because of the deeply felt slow mvmt, the Lindsays move ahead of the ABQ and the Auryn in this quartet. The Lindsays here have shown me, I believe, what it means to be invisible. Though I haven't compared the last group on the list (Ysaye, whom some say is better than Lindsays here, others say otherwise), I'm going to just give the Palm to the Lindsays here: no other group that I've heard has played this piece so invisibly. Bravo!

No.2, the 'Fifths', starts off blasting out of the gate! Though no quicker than any other version, it seems, the Lindsays enthusiasm renders the proceedings at almost breakneck speed (I'm over stating) which is very refreshing. My friend did note that others play it more perfectly (ABQ & Auryn), and yes, here the Lindsays are thrillingly 'live' sounding,... human,... and yet I hear nothing overt,... just happy joy.

I think they play the slow mvmt too fast, about a minute quicker than most, robbing this static dream of its melancoly. However, it is still played exquisitely nonetheless.

The 'witch's menuet' isn't as heavy as the heaviest, but the Lindsays imbue it with their own charm, The Finale is taken with the requisite amount of humor in the sliding notes.

I'll admit to not paying attention during No.3, the 'Emperor', but I did make not of the Finale, in which the Lindsays may trump the usual suspects.



Hopefully Vol.II will arrive shortly, as I have Great Expectations. Honestly, I can't recall when last a recording just wiped up previous memories like the Lindsay have done here. Perhaps it is that I've heard more compares of Op.76 than others. Frankly, no one beats their enthusiasm. Obviously, the ABQ will have perfect ensemble and intonation, as do the Auryn, but the Lindsays are really right there too, and I want to minimize any potential for criticism. That my friend noticed that the ABQ might be more 'perfect' might say something, but I want you to be confident here. If...if...if there are any 'human' things in the Lindsays performance, I willingly remain blind to them.

All I can say is that from the first note, I was taken by their joy. Eventually I may sample the Ysaye, but I certainly can't see them matching the Lindsays in sheer pluck,... and joy. And,...for $5,...pshawww!

[Gurn Blanston]

Thanks for the review, Snipper. Very interesting. The only Lindsay's Haydn that I have is their Op 50, which I recall liking quite a lot. I'm not unduly surprised that you found this a good version. Even though I clearly don't know what exactly you are looking for, I'm pleased for you that you've found it.

[Antoine Marchand]

Lindsay Op.76 (rec. 1998)

That's all what I needed to know about this post... 

[Antoine Marchand]

Two enticing future releases (or re-releases):



Haydn - Songs & Cantatas. Brilliant Classics (1 CD, February 2011). Emma Kirkby, soprano; Marcia Hadjimarkos, fortepiano. Includes Arianna a Naxos; The Wanderer; Piercing Eyes; The Spirit's Song; Fidelity; O Tuneful Voice; A Pastoral Song; Recollection; The Battle of the Nile; She never told her love.



Haydn's Music For England (first release on CD). Australian Eloquence (2 CD, February 2011). Judith Nelson (soprano) & Paul Elliott (tenor); The Academy of Ancient Music, Christopher Hogwood. Includes Scottish Songs (selection); Piano Trio No. 32 in A major, Hob.XV:18; String Quartet, Op. 71 No. 3 in E flat major; The Lady's Looking-Glass, Hob.31c:17; London Trio II, Hob.IV:2 in G major; A Pastoral Song, Hob, XXVIa:27;The Mermaid's Song, Hob. XXVIa:25; Lord Cathcart's Welcome Home; London Trio III, Hob.IV:3 in G major; O Tuneful Voice, Hob. XXVIa:42; Symphony No. 94 in G Major 'Surprise'.

[Gurn Blanston]

OK, I'll take them both then.

Kirkby is Kirkby, and I rather fancy her efforts especially in Haydn. Hadjimarkos is quite special in Haydn too. I have a disk of her on Zig-Zag playing several sonatas the clavichord which has become one of my favorites. Looks like win-win there, even though I have each of these songs a dozen times already. 

Much the same with the Hogwood disk. It looks like it could represent an evening's concert worth the way concerts were put together in those days. Hard to beat that for a pleasant evening in front of the old stereo...

[Al Moritz]

Hey, Al--great to see you! 

Haydn's been my main squeeze this year, too, starting with Jacobs's splendid Creation recording, then the Quatuor Mosaïques quartet recordings, then Wispelwey's cello ctos, Brautigam's piano ctos, and finally plumped for Brüggen's 13 disc set of symphonies.  After the dust settled, it's the quartets that I think will give me the most lasting pleasure.

Hi David, good to see you too, Merry Christmas! The string quartets are on my list, but currently I am incurably addicted to the symphonies.

I had forgotten to mention how expansive for its time symphony # 42 really is. In the first mvmt., exposition and repeat thereof take up 5 minutes of a total duration of 9.5 minutes. However, the exposition and repeat do not seem long at all, in fact it makes for a rather short five minutes, given how well and varied each section of the music flows into the next one. The slow mvmt. lasts close to 10 minutes, with a truly exquisite melody as material. Also here the flow is remarkable. At some points the music almost comes to a standstill among a moment of hesitation, only to lead to an effusive outpouring (using the first phrase of the gorgeous melody followed by repeat), after which the music holds in again. Yet eventually this is followed by yet another broad release. The trio in the third mvmt. is a rarity in that it uses the thematic material of the surrounding minuet, with an enchanting twist.

Today I revisited symphony 90. What a powerhouse! Music with balls.

This was followed by another listen to the stunning symphony 92. Like the preceding mvmts., the finale is fantastic. After the playful beginning the material forcefully compresses and energizes more and more, in a mixture of vortex and wildfire, only to then release into the second theme. The development section is able to sustain the established power.

[Al Moritz]

Today I revisited symphony 90. What a powerhouse! Music with balls.

It is not all balls, however. The second theme of the first mvmt., and the variations in the flute in the latter part of the slow mvmt. are outspoken feminine. And then there is the cuddly gracefulness of the minuet's trio. Yet it is countered twice by gruff, energetic interjections by the lower strings. There appears to be some deliberate contrasting archetyping going on, in an artful way.

[Lethevich]

Al, I have been enjoying each of your posts in this thread - I am envious of how you seem to be able to listen to Haydn with such objectivity, enthusiasm and with something of a clean slate to start from.

[alkan]

Alkan,

Thanks for your comments. So which performance would you recommend for # 44?

Without a doubt, the version by Derek Solomons ...   but it's OOP now.    I can email an MP3 file to you if you like.     Can I do this via GMG personal mail ?   

[Gurn Blanston]

Without a doubt, the version by Derek Solomons ...   but it's OOP now.    I can email an MP3 file to you if you like.     Can I do this via GMG personal mail ?   

No, the attachments are too big. You could send a link though.

BTW, totally agree with the Solomons choice. Not that others aren't pretty fine too, but that one has... IT.

[Bogey]

Well, a very nice surprise under the tree from my wife:



The set did net me the Fischer symphony cycle that I have wanted for an age and there are the complete Baryton Trios that I also wanted (I only had four on the shelf).  Any other highlights from this set that you are aware of?  I learned from Gurn many moons ago not to write off less than famous performers (see Caspar da Salo Quartett for Haydn effort on the Pilz label), so time to see how many nuggets I can mine out of this brick.