Haydn's Haus

[Gurn Blanston]

Thanks for that Gurn. Very helpful!! I had never realized they could split into so many periods. Will be useful to think about as I explore them...

Y'r welcome, Neal.  Well, I tried first lumping them together in bigger chunks, but they didn't convey enough information that way. There really is quite a bit of diversity in there, which makes sense, spanning 37 years (1758 - 1795) like that. There is a lot of thought yet to be given to the earliest ones. If I was young and educated, I would love to have a go at it.

[Gurn Blanston]

I grin at the karmic happenstance that this was posted on page 104....



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Now playing:
Academy of Ancient Music / Hogwood - Hob 01 003 Symphony in D 2nd mvmt - Andante moderato

[Leon]

I grin at the karmic happenstance that this was posted on page 104....



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Now playing:
Academy of Ancient Music / Hogwood - Hob 01 003 Symphony in D 2nd mvmt - Andante moderato

I only have 52 pages - you must be displaying five posts a page instead of the ten default.

[Gurn Blanston]

I only have 52 pages - you must be displaying five posts a page instead of the ten default.

No, I submit it is YOU, sir, who is displaying 20 posts per page instead of the standard 10! Have at you! 

I'm sure it is no coincidence that the numbers are half or double....



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Now playing:
Academy of Ancient Music / Hogwood - Hob 01 007 Symphony in C 2nd mvmt - Recitativo: Adagio

[Gurn Blanston]

Whipped up a little script which put all the raw data (thanks, Gurn) into table tags. Still, I could format them only so much because I think BBCode tables are not as configurable -- i.e., don't have as many attributes -- as HTML ones.

HRL	Hob	Key	Year	Name
1	1	D	1758
2	37	C	1759 - 1760
3	18	G	1759 - 1760
4	19	D	1759 - 1760
5	2	C	1759 - 1760
6	108	Bb	1759 - 1760	Symphony B
7	16	Bb	1759 - 1760
8	17	F	1759 - 1760
9	15	D	1759 - 1760
10	4	D	1759 - 1760
11	10	D	1759 - 1760
12	32	C	1759 - 1760
13	5	A	1759 - 1760
14	11	E	1759 - 1760
15	33	C	1759 - 1760
16	27	G	1759 - 1760
18	3	G	1759 - 1760
18a	107	Bb	1759 - 1760	Symphony A - also in version for stringquartet
19	20	C	1759 - 1760
20	6	D	1761	Matin / Morning
21	7	C	1761	Midi / Afternoon
22	8	G	1761	Soir / Evening
23	9	C	1762
24	25	C	1762
25	14	A	1761 - 1762
26	36	Eb	1761 - 1762
27	12	E	1763
28	13	D	1763
29	40	F	1763
30	72	D	1763
31	21	A	1764
32	22	Eb	1764	Philosopher
33	23	G	1764
34	24	D	1764
35	30	C	1765	Alleluia
36	29	E	1765
37	31	D	1765	Hornsignal / Auf dem Anstand
38	28	A	1765
39	34	D - d	1765
40	39	g	1766 - 1767
41	35	Bb	01/12/1767
42	59	A	1767	Fire
43	38	C	1767 - 1768
44	44	e	1772	Trauer / Mourning
45	58	F	1768
46	26	d	1768 - 1769	Lamentazione / Weihnacht / Christmas
47	41	C	1770 - 1771
48	48	C	1768 - 1770	Maria Theresia
49	49	f	1770 - 1771	La Passione
50	52	c	1770 - 1771
51	43	Eb	1770 - 1771	Merkur / Mercury
52	42	D	1771
53	51	B	1771 - 1773
54	45	f#	1772	Farewell
55	46	B	1772
56	47	G	1772	Palindrome
57	65	C	1772 - 1773
58	50	C	1773	In Nomine Domini
59	64	A	1773	Tempora Mutantur
60	54	G	1774
61	55	Eb	1774	Der Schulmeister / Schoolmaster
62	56	C	1774
63	57	D	1774
64	60	C	1774	Il distratto
65	68	Bb	1774 - 1775
66	66	Bb	1775 - 1776
67	69	C	1775 - 1776	Loudon
68	67	F	1775 - 1776
69	61	D	1776
70	53	D	1777 - 1779	L'Imperiale
71	63	C	1777 - 1780	La Roxelane
72	70	D	1779	Mit Pauken und Trumpeten
73	75	Bb	1779
74	71	Bb	1779 - 1780
75	62	D	1779 - 1781	Variation on No. 53
76	74	Eb	1780 - 1781
77	73	D	1780 - 1782	La Chasse, first the ouverture of the opera La fedelta premiata
78	76	Eb	1782
79	77	Bb	1782
80	78	c	1782
81	79	F	1784	novembre 1784
82	80	d	1784	8-11-1784
83	81	G	1784	8-11-1784
84	87	A	1785
85	85	Bb	1785	La Reine / Queen
86	83	g	1785	La Poule / Hen
87	84	Eb	1786
88	86	D	1786
89	82	C	1786	L'Ours / Bear
90	88	G	1787
91	89	F	1787
92	90	C	1788
93	91	Eb	1788
94	92	G	1789	Oxford
95	95	c	1791
96	96	D	1791	Miracle
97	93	D	1791
98	94	G	1792	Mit dem Paukenschlag / Surprise
99	98	Bb	1792
100	97	C	1792
101	99	Eb	1793
102	100	G	1794	Military
103	101	D	1794	Clock / Uhr
104	102	Bb	1794
105	103	Eb	1795	Mit dem Paukenwirbel / Drumroll
106	104	D	1795	London / Salomon
	105	Bb	1792	Sinfonia concertante
	106	D	1796	only 1 part, ouverture to opera Le pescatrici

Navneeth did such a lovely job with making this table that it seems silly to try anything but giving it a bump. Basically, this compares the latest scholarship with the chronology in Hoboken. You can see the multitude of changes!   

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Now playing:
Academy of Ancient Music / Hogwood - Hob 01 007 Symphony in C 4th mvmt - Finale: Allegro

[Bogey]

Thanks my friend.  Just what this "curious member" was looking for.  Appreciate the time you put into this and it will make my Papa symphony listening that much more enlightened.

[Gurn Blanston]

Thanks my friend.  Just what this "curious member" was looking for.  Appreciate the time you put into this and it will make my Papa symphony listening that much more enlightened.

Bill, I remember when I first started getting into classical music 20 years ago, my wife had misgivings; A> because she knows me and B> because I told her that I didn't really need to buy any books and stuff because I just wanted to enjoy the music. Her reply; See A above...   Anyway, what I discovered is that the more I knew, the more fulfilling my listening was. I know that flies in the face of some of our philosophers here, but there it is.  So if making this info available increases your listening enjoyment, then that is sufficient unto the day. 0:)




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Now playing:
Concilium musicum Wien \ Angerer - Hob 01 008 Symphony in G 4th mvmt - La Tempesta: Presto

[Leon]

No, I submit it is YOU, sir, who is displaying 20 posts per page instead of the standard 10! Have at you! 

I'm sure it is no coincidence that the numbers are half or double....



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Now playing:
Academy of Ancient Music / Hogwood - Hob 01 007 Symphony in C 2nd mvmt - Recitativo: Adagio

Ah, you have solved the mystery, I was displaying 20, seems that 20 is the forum default and not 10 as I assumed.

Excellent posts from you and others on Haydn symphonies - I will certainly take advantage of this chart as I do the date tagging to my Haydn tracks.

[Gurn Blanston]

Ah, you have solved the mystery, I was displaying 20, seems that 20 is the forum default and not 10 as I assumed.

Excellent posts from you and others on Haydn symphonies - I will certainly take advantage of this chart as I do the date tagging to my Haydn tracks.

  Well, it wasn't so hard, I looked to see that there were 1037 post in the thread and did the math.   I didn't know that you could change the number of posts on a page. I thought it was written in stone. Although I do reverse the order of my posts to put the most recent first. It's a mixed blessing.

Thanks, you mentioned in The Corner that you were doing a project like that. Along those lines, I am currently listening to an "Album" titled '1761', which gives me plenty of nice listening. I'm waiting to see how your project with other composers turns out. I can pretty much fill your needs with Haydn, well beyond symphonies.  But in doing so, I learned the challenges of trying to date works from that time, even with the most famous composer of the age!   





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Now playing:
Consortium Classicum / Klöcker - Hob 02 14 Divertimento in C for 2 Clarinets & 2 Horns 3rd mvmt - Adagio

[Lethevich]

Gurn - many thanks for your post and also for pointing out the 1782–84 set: I wasn't aware of it.

[Gurn Blanston]

Gurn - many thanks for your post and also for pointing out the 1782–84 set: I wasn't aware of it.

You're welcome, Sara. And knowing your tastes, let me add to that a bit; #'s 79 & 81 are the only 2 symphonies that have never been recorded on period instruments! I have #80 in d minor done (nicely!) by the Freiburg Baroque, but its mates are still virginal. I find it odd somehow that if either the Goodman set OR the Hogwood set had extended 1 volume further...

C'est la vie.



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Now playing:
The English Concert \ Pinnock  Standage - Hob 07a 04 Concerto in G for Violin 3rd mvmt - Allegro

[Lethevich]

If only record labels could join the dots like you can - they would realise that such a coupling would give them serious bragging rights to a "premiere period instrument performances" note on the cover.

[Gurn Blanston]

If only record labels could join the dots like you can - they would realise that such a coupling would give them serious bragging rights to a "premiere period instrument performances" note on the cover.

  Well, of course, the big difference between us and them is that they don't give a s**t. You're right though, they love to put those little asterisks and the stickers on the shrink wrap "world premiere". When I first began hunting them, I thought I just wasn't being persistent enough. How wrong I was...



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Now playing:
The Hanover Band / Goodman - Hob 01 006 Symphony in D 2nd mvmt - Adagio

[Lethevich]

I'm playing the 80 Freiburger disc now. It reminds me of a reoccurring issue I have - I easily get "spoiled" with Haydn. This must be the first Haydn symphony I've played in a few weeks, and I'm shocked as usual by the richness of invention. When I listen to many discs in a short period of time, I don't know if it's my concentration or over-familiarity, but I become desensitised to these qualities.

This piece in particular has a first movement which is almost a mockery of the routine templates other classical period (admittedly, mainly chronologically earlier) symphonies adhered to - it has the same "shifting" quality the beginning of the 45th has, although in a rather different mood.

[Gurn Blanston]

I'm playing the 80 Freiburger disc now. It reminds me of a reoccurring issue I have - I easily get "spoiled" with Haydn. This must be the first Haydn symphony I've played in a few weeks, and I'm shocked as usual by the richness of invention. When I listen to many discs in a short period of time, I don't know if it's my concentration or over-familiarity, but I become desensitised to these qualities.

This piece in particular has a first movement which is almost a mockery of the routine templates other classical period (admittedly, mainly chronologically earlier) symphonies adhered to - it has the same "shifting" quality the beginning of the 45th has, although in a rather different mood.

I know what you mean, on both counts. Since Haydn makes up about 40% of my listening for the last 2 years while I have been working on learning him, I get overwhelmed sometimes by trying to get my mind around everything that is going on there. It isn't easy, not for me anyway. Papa Haydn my ass!  

And #80 is the great hidden masterpiece, IMO. I have mentioned it a few times when people post about what Haydn symphony etc? but I get drowned out by the London crowd or the Stürm und Dräng'ers. But it doesn't need any help from me, other than to get people to listen to it.




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Now playing:
Haydn Sinfonietta Wien \ Huss - Hob 01 012 Symphony in E 2nd mvmt - Adagio

[Lethevich]

And #80 is the great hidden masterpiece, IMO. I have mentioned it a few times when people post about what Haydn symphony etc? but I get drowned out by the London crowd or the Stürm und Dräng'ers. But it doesn't need any help from me, other than to get people to listen to it.

I am a card-carrying member of the second group Nobody will get in the way of me forcing people to listen to nos.39 and 46.

Edit: reached the minuet. At one point I felt that Haydn was an unsurpassed master of both the minuet and finale. In particular he is the only composer whose minuets are always worth listening closely to, always richly melodic, and never annoying. But then I realised he was also a master of the opening allegro and slow movement too, rendering such statements less dramatic...

[Que]

For a moment I thought Gurn would hate me for posting this... ...Or at least for a while  But fortunately this disc is available in the US!

Stumbled at the site of K617 (one of the labels that Gurn has a love/hate relationship with  ) upon this interesting issue of the basset horn versions by Haydn himself of some of his trios, including a piece for table glasses as a reference to Mozart's example. And on period instruments by an ensemble I can absolutely vouch for on account of their Mozart recordings..

More info, including a sample, HERE  and at Amazon.

Sounds absolutely sublime fun to me, as usual with this ensemble.



Trio n° 96 en sol mineur
Trio n° 97 en si b majeur
Adagio (Trio n° 123) en sol majeur pour table de verres
Trio n° 65 en fa majeur
Trio n° 87 en sol mineur
Trio n° 69 en si b majeur
Q

[Gurn Blanston]

For a moment I thought Gurn would hate me for posting this... ...Or at least for a while  But fortunately this disc is available in the US!

Yes, we heathen must have been good for once, since they have tossed us a bone.

Stumbled at the site of K617 (one of the labels that Gurn has a love/hate relationship with  ) upon this interesting issue of the basset horn versions by Haydn himself of some of his trios, including a piece for table glasses as a reference to Mozart's example. And on period instruments by an ensemble I can absolutely vouch for on account of their Mozart recordings..

More info, including a sample, HERE  and at Amazon.

Sounds absolutely sublime fun to me, as usual with this ensemble.



Trio n° 96 en sol mineur
Trio n° 97 en si b majeur
Adagio (Trio n° 123) en sol majeur pour table de verres
Trio n° 65 en fa majeur
Trio n° 87 en sol mineur
Trio n° 69 en si b majeur
Q

And you know, it is quite interesting that Haydn did arrange these himself. Guessing here that he found them totally unusable in their Baryton incarnation. Many of the trios were arranged for string trio, which I feel was a less successful venture. That wasn't by Haydn though. Anyway, I am delighted with this discovery, as I wasn't aware that any of that lot had been recorded at all. Merci beaucoup!  This one is on my wish list since I am already a couple hundreds over budget for this fiscal month. If the 7 copies allotted to the US can last another week though...   



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Now playing:
Academy of Ancient Music / Hogwood - K Anh C 11.03 074g Symphony in Bb 3rd mvmt - Menuetto & Trio

[SonicMan46]

And you know, it is quite interesting that Haydn did arrange these himself. Guessing here that he found them totally unusable in their Baryton incarnation. Many of the trios were arranged for string trio, which I feel was a less successful venture. That wasn't by Haydn though. Anyway, I am delighted with this discovery, as I wasn't aware that any of that lot had been recorded at all. Merci beaucoup!  This one is on my wish list since I am already a couple hundreds over budget for this fiscal month. If the 7 copies allotted to the US can last another week though...   

Gurn - now that disc looks interesting, but Amazon has little information on track listings; I looked at Q's link of a bunch of old guys my age playing on wine glasses - reminded me of the scene of Sandra Bullock (who is much better looking) playing the glasses in the movie Miss Congeniality - 

But I love the basset horn and this looks like a great recording - might consider tonight, I guess w/ that label?  Dave 

[Gurn Blanston]

Gurn - now that disc looks interesting, but Amazon has little information on track listings; I looked at Q's link of a bunch of old guys my age playing on wine glasses - reminded me of the scene of Sandra Bullock (who is much better looking) playing the glasses in the movie Miss Congeniality - 

But I love the basset horn and this looks like a great recording - might consider tonight, I guess w/ that label?  Dave 

Yeah, might as well play it safe, Dave. I'm afraid that waiting until the 16th will probably knock me out of the running for the last copy (#7).  If you take Q's list of the contents and look at your Baryton set, the listings will be the same. My guess is that he simply gave the baryton part to the Bassett Horn in full confidence that it was an instrument that would greatly outlive the baryton...




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Now playing:
Academy of Ancient Music / Schröder  Hogwood - K 318 Symphony #32 in G 2nd mvmt - Andante