Haydn's Haus

[Bogey]

....and speaking of depth....and richness for that matter, really enjoyed the HOB VIIA:3 out of the 1, 4 and 3 lot, especially the first movement.  Though the Allegro from 4 is not to be missed either.

Due to Leo's post, now spinning the Op. 1 Nos. 1-4 a la Buchberger Quartet.  Do not have the Kodaly disc, so hopefully these performances are decent.

[Gurn Blanston]

Suddenly, I am struck by a previously-unknown-to-me aspect of string quartet history...fascinating stuff! There are always epiphanies that go with this era of music 

Well, as always, there is dispute over whether they are actual, real-deal, string quartets. Haydn didn't think so, but they did serve as an inspiration to him down the road when it came to Op 9 & 17. On the one hand, they are 5 movements with 2 minuets, which is pure divertimento form. Also, the unspecified "Bass" is thought to mean 16' (double bass) rather than 8' (cello) bass. Nonetheless, we totally treat them as string quartets, and they work just fine that way. I do have a beautiful little disk by Piccolo Concerto Wien that uses a Bass, wish I had the entire group done that way. Here is my SQ set, BTW:



I have Kodaly's (which I like and they introduced ME, too!), and I had seen this sitting around untouched at BRO for a year before I finally scooped it up for $8 for 4 disks, now you can't touch it for under $50 on AMP.   It isn't PI (there isn't a full PI set of these) but no matter, it is awfully good.   

[Gurn Blanston]

....and speaking of depth....and richness for that matter, really enjoyed the HOB VIIA:3 out of the 1, 4 and 3 lot, especially the first movement.  Though the Allegro from 4 is not to be missed either.

Due to Leo's post, now spinning the Op. 1 Nos. 1-4 a la Buchberger Quartet.  Do not have the Kodaly disc, so hopefully these performances are decent.

Glad you liked those, Bill. Hob VIIa:1 he wrote as an introductory gesture for Luigi Tomasini. It is considered to be the most complex of the lot. I think #4 sounds more Baroque than the others, and in fact it was written 2 years earlier (1761) while the others are both from the same year, 1763. Along with the Hob 18 organ concertos, I think that the 3 & 4 violin concertos sound the most "primitive". Hard to believe the first cello co0ncerto is from the same year!   

[SonicMan46]

Sonic Alert, Sonic Alert!!   Dave, you need to check out this link! 

Wow, Bill, that's a nice site. Beautiful instruments. I see lots of old keyboards and fiddles, but the other stuff is thin on the ground.

Thanks, Bill & Gurn for that link to the 'old' instruments - will take a good look and possibly post a few in the 'Old Instrument Thread'!

I really love seeing these in person - when Susan & I were in the Big Apple a few years ago (when we met Bruce) - we spent a half day in the Met (of course, one needs to be quite selective w/ that short amount of time & we went our separate ways) - whenever I visit that museum, my first stop is the musical instrument section - well, S*&T, it was closed for renovation - BUT, an excuse to go back to NYC and soon! 

[Bogey]

Thanks, Bill & Gurn for that link to the 'old' instruments - will take a good look and possibly post a few in the 'Old Instrument Thread'!

I really love seeing these in person - when Susan & I were in the Big Apple a few years ago (when we met Bruce) - we spent a half day in the Met (of course, one needs to be quite selective w/ that short amount of time & we went our separate ways) - whenever I visit that museum, my first stop is the musical instrument section - well, S*&T, it was closed for renovation - BUT, an excuse to go back to NYC and soon! 

Did you tell them that you are a GMG member....which allows you complete access to such amusements.

[Opus106]

Also, the unspecified "Bass" is thought to mean 16' (double bass) rather than 8' (cello) bass.

Pardon the digression, but could you explain the notation, viz. the single quote? I'm fairly certain that a cello isn't 8 feet tall.

[Gurn Blanston]

Pardon the digression, but could you explain the notation, viz. the single quote? I'm fairly certain that a cello isn't 8 feet tall.

Well, one of those things that I am not an expert on (so many of those!) but the 8' and 16' are having to do with the pitch produced by an organ. The pitch range is determined by the longest pipe in a rank of pipes. An 8' pipe is like a medium bass. A 16' is an octave lower, and a 4' is an octave higher. So when this system is applied to other instruments (which it is), a cello is an 8' bass, a double bass is a 16' bass, and a viola is a 4' bass.

When a composer says "Basso" and doesn't specify, then it's time to make educated guesses. In the 19th century (really earlier, in the 1770's in England) it was decided that these were string quartets and they were marketed and played as such, that is, with an 8' bass. However, that doesn't mean that this is what Haydn had in mind when he wrote them, since string divertimentos in 1750's Vienna were frequently (maybe always) accompanied by a double bass.

[Opus106]

Well, one of those things that I am not an expert on (so many of those!) but the 8' and 16' are having to do with the pitch produced by an organ. The pitch range is determined by the longest pipe in a rank of pipes. An 8' pipe is like a medium bass. A 16' is an octave lower, and a 4' is an octave higher. So when this system is applied to other instruments (which it is), a cello is an 8' bass, a double bass is a 16' bass, and a viola is a 4' bass.

When a composer says "Basso" and doesn't specify, then it's time to make educated guesses. In the 19th century (really earlier, in the 1770's in England) it was decided that these were string quartets and they were marketed and played as such, that is, with an 8' bass. However, that doesn't mean that this is what Haydn had in mind when he wrote them, since string divertimentos in 1750's Vienna were frequently (maybe always) accompanied by a double bass.

I had the organ in mind, but I never thought the same set of descriptors was also used for other instruments. Thanks.

*We now return to our regularly scheduled programming*

[Leo K.]

....and speaking of depth....and richness for that matter, really enjoyed the HOB VIIA:3 out of the 1, 4 and 3 lot, especially the first movement.  Though the Allegro from 4 is not to be missed either.

Due to Leo's post, now spinning the Op. 1 Nos. 1-4 a la Buchberger Quartet.  Do not have the Kodaly disc, so hopefully these performances are decent.

And you got me spinning some select sonatas from this box:





Right now, I'm listening to Sonata #56 in D major. Very profound piece of music.

[Bogey]

6.   Symphonies from 1782 – 1784 – Call them what you will, but my choice is that these are Haydn's first mature symphonies in the Classical Style. They were composed for a trip to London where Haydn was to direct their premiere, but eventually sold to a Parisian publisher when that fell through. They are actually 2 sets of 3, just like the Paris Symphonies. I consider them to be neglected masterpieces; you be the judge. They are 76, 77, 78, 79, 80 & 81.

Spinning Symphonies 76-78.....Fischer.

[Gurn Blanston]

Spinning Symphonies 76-78.....Fischer.

Ah, you lucky devil! Enjoy those. And the second set when those are done.

[Gurn Blanston]

Well, I was unable to find Brüggen's Stürm und Dräng Symphonies in the big box that some of you were fortunate enough to pick up a couple of years ago, so I got the entire as 5 singles or doubles plus this rascal here:

[asin]B000023ZEL[/asin]

which I negotiated a better price with the seller. $100 was too rich for MY blood, no matter how much I wanted to replace my old downloads.  

BTW, is that not a bizarre cover shot of Brüggen there? 

[Bogey]

Well, I was unable to find Brüggen's Stürm und Dräng Symphonies in the big box that some of you were fortunate enough to pick up a couple of years ago, so I got the entire as 5 singles or doubles plus this rascal here:

[asin]B000023ZEL[/asin]

which I negotiated a better price with the seller. $100 was too rich for MY blood, no matter how much I wanted to replace my old downloads.  

BTW, is that not a bizarre cover shot of Brüggen there? 

Only one Miles:



Bruggen may be good to great....but he ain't got the coolness in his entire body that Miles has in the tip of his pinky.

[Bogey]

.....Piano Trio disc tonight.  HOB XV:
1
5
C1 (talk to me Gurn)
37

Though mine are from the mega-box, they also came in this set:



Van Swieten Trio (Van Oort on fortepiano).  This is definitely a different sounding effort than my much beloved Beaux Arts Trio.  Nice to have 'em both on the shelf.
From the web:
Van Oort teaches fortepiano and is a lecturer in Historical Performance Practice at the Royal Conservatory in The Hague, the Conservatory of Amsterdam, and at the Royal Flemish Conservatory in Antwerp. He is also the founder of the Van Swieten Society, which performs classical chamber music.

Looks as though he came through Husker territory!

http://newsroom.unl.edu/releases/2007/10/23/Music+historian,+fortepianist+van+Oort+to+give+Geske+Lecture+Nov.+5+at+UNL

PS: I see they were mentioned on page 1 of this thread!

[Elgarian]

I bought this set on an experimental whim a couple of years ago while on holiday, and was surprised to find how delightfully easy Haydn's masses were to listen to. Not light, exactly, but I could understand why, in his day, some of his masses were not regarded as serious enough to be sacred. Anyway, on that holiday I worked my way through the box - a different mass every day - and was well-pleased with my purchase.

Yet somehow the box stayed on the shelf after I carried it home, and only in the last couple of days have I blown the dust off it. And again, I'm so very pleasantly surprised by the exquisite character of what I'm hearing. I've no basis for comparison with other recordings, but I've no reason to question the performances - some lovely singing, and a good crisp period sound. Do other folk have this box? Any comments?

[Gurn Blanston]

.....Piano Trio disc tonight.  HOB XV:
1
5
C1 (talk to me Gurn)
37

Though mine are from the mega-box, they also came in this set:



Van Swieten Trio (Van Oort on fortepiano).  This is definitely a different sounding effort than my much beloved Beaux Arts Trio.  Nice to have 'em both on the shelf.
From the web:
Van Oort teaches fortepiano and is a lecturer in Historical Performance Practice at the Royal Conservatory in The Hague, the Conservatory of Amsterdam, and at the Royal Flemish Conservatory in Antwerp. He is also the founder of the Van Swieten Society, which performs classical chamber music.

Looks as though he came through Husker territory!

http://newsroom.unl.edu/releases/2007/10/23/Music+historian,+fortepianist+van+Oort+to+give+Geske+Lecture+Nov.+5+at+UNL

PS: I see they were mentioned on page 1 of this thread!

That's a very nice set, Bill. Ye're right, nice complement to the BAT set.

Hob 15_C1 - When Hoboken wrote his trio section, this trio was known, but its provenance was not. He listed it as "attributed to" because he wasn't sure one way or the other. Since that time (1956) the trio has been authenticated, but since it already had a 'name' that it was known by, it didn't graduate to a 'real' number. To break it down, "C1" means the first (of a series) trio in C major attributed to Haydn".

Of all the ones listed thusly (and there are plenty!), the only 2 that have been authenticated are C1 and f1. I like the f minor one, it's very nice.   

[Gurn Blanston]

I bought this set on an experimental whim a couple of years ago while on holiday, and was surprised to find how delightfully easy Haydn's masses were to listen to. Not light, exactly, but I could understand why, in his day, some of his masses were not regarded as serious enough to be sacred. Anyway, on that holiday I worked my way through the box - a different mass every day - and was well-pleased with my purchase.

Yet somehow the box stayed on the shelf after I carried it home, and only in the last couple of days have I blown the dust off it. And again, I'm so very pleasantly surprised by the exquisite character of what I'm hearing. I've no basis for comparison with other recordings, but I've no reason to question the performances - some lovely singing, and a good crisp period sound. Do other folk have this box? Any comments?

Alan,
I don't have that set personally, but it has gotten a lot of love here, some of it rather recently. Your description of the masses is quite congruent with my own; Haydn was irrepressible, and his sunny outlook extends even to his "solemn" music, which in some cases isn't all that solemn at all! Hard to not like that, unless you are irrepressibly solemn yourself (as many were in those days).

[Florestan]

Haydn was irrepressible, and his sunny outlook extends even to his "solemn" music, which in some cases isn't all that solemn at all! Hard to not like that, unless you are irrepressibly solemn yourself (as many were in those days).

There is a legend in respect to that. Haydn is asked why his religious music is joyous and cheerful instead of being solemn and serious. His reply: "Because whenever I think about God I become cheerful and joyous!". Se non e vero e ben trovato. 

[Gurn Blanston]

There is a legend in respect to that. Haydn is asked why his religious music is joyous and cheerful instead of being solemn and serious. His reply: "Because whenever I think about God I become cheerful and joyous!". Se non e vero e ben trovato. 

Florestanio!
Yes, Haydn was certainly a Deistically-oriented sort of a person. Note that he completed a great number of his manuscripts with the phrase 'Finis, Laus Deo'. I always took it to be a sigh of relief, but there are other possibilities, I suppose...

[Florestan]

Florestanio!
Yes, Haydn was certainly a Deistically-oriented sort of a person. Note that he completed a great number of his manuscripts with the phrase 'Finis, Laus Deo'. I always took it to be a sigh of relief, but there are other possibilities, I suppose...

I'd replace Deistically with Theistically - but you know I'm not the person to insist upon terminology...