Haydn's Haus

[Leo K.]

My first exposure to Haydn was in high school orchestra (1988) playing the first movement of the 'London' no.101! (I played in the 2nd violin section) Before that I'd only heard his name in the Mozart literature, so playing a bit of the 'London' was very interesting Somehow the music grew on me each time I played it! Although we as players were limited, it was fun to play the last time I played it, was at a 'Big 9' concert, where nine schools met at a school and played one after the other. Well, while playing Haydn at that concert, the music suddenly blazed into my soul! Soon after I bought my first Haydn cassette, but I can't remember the artist, only what the tape looked like!

[Leo K.]

I still love my Haydn Trio box from the Van Swieten Trio. I go back to it at some point every year and continue to relish the richness and vast musical knowledge incorporated into these works.



I really enjoyed coming across an excellant review of this set, on Amazon:

By David Bryson

In a letter Brahms says something to the effect `Nobody seems to understand Haydn nowadays. For years he gave us all our music'. Whatever precisely Brahms meant, it seems to me that the complete transformation in the idiom of music that made the music of Mozart and everyone since so astoundingly different from the music of Bach was Haydn's achievement, and his alone. Relics of the baroque manner are absent from Haydn's own style virtually from the outset. Any that remain relate to his treatment of the bass in ensembles, and that matter has a particular bearing on Haydn's piano trios, not so much in themselves as in the way they are perceived.

Assuming for the moment what I shall try to explain in that respect, the set under review will be hard to surpass as `record of the decade' whatever marvels await us between now and the end of 2010. For comprehension of Haydn's style and its development, for loving, inspired and meticulous musicianship, for the ability to recognise and convey greatness when they find it, these artists deserve the most extravagant praise. For quality in the recorded sound, for thought and imagination in the production, for helpful and illuminating comment, and for sheer brilliant value, this set deserves hardly less. It comes compactly packaged in ten numbered envelopes averaging an hour's music apiece. Box and envelopes are of strong cardboard, but the discs can be difficult to extract when new, so be careful with them. There are 40 trios plus (on disc 5) a selection of individual movements where the music is probably by Haydn but the arrangements for trio not. Attribution to Haydn is probably not completely certain in some of the earliest trios either, but he becomes unmistakable before long, and none of the music is less than attractive. The 3 trios on disc 6 have flute rather than violin according to Haydn's expressed preference, and Marion Moonen uses a wooden flute. There are two violinists and two cellists sharing the work, but the fortepianos (several are used) are played throughout the entire 10 hours of music by the formidable Bart van Oort, who contributes one of the admirable liner-notes into the bargain. The level of musical insight shown by the entire ensemble I have already alluded to, but van Oort is a player to hear just for his playing, turning out trills to rival Gould himself.

Serkin said that that Haydn's trios are a musical corpus to rival Mozart's piano concertos, and that a life devoted to their study alone would be well spent. He might have recorded some of them in that case, mightn't he? The statement is not much of an exaggeration in my opinion. Broadly speaking, one senses Haydn's style developing as the 10 discs progress, the adagio of the F# minor trio on disc 9 is better known as the sublime slow movement of the wonderful symphony 102, and the 4 trios occupying the last disc, particularly the C major, are absolute belters worthy to stand with the greatest of his piano sonatas. One can probably enjoy them best without reading too much about them, as enlightenment is in short supply in what one reads. Tovey finds `strange inability to refrain from writing down in the piano part everything that the other instruments have to say.' This I quote to illustrate the pitfalls of dealing in generalisation. There is more doubling between the violin and the piano's right hand than in later styles, but as a general characterisation of what you can hear with your own ears it is nonsense. The really interesting issue concerns the cello. Genuine emancipation of the cello in ensembles with piano came only with Mozart, although Haydn had got there in his quartets and symphonies. We may therefore choose to believe, as Tovey seems to, that this composer, the most thoroughgoing revolutionary, in his civilised way, that music has yet seen, was incapable of advancing in his trios to the treatment of the cello that he had achieved elsewhere; or we can believe something more probable. Cellists of the calibre necessary for Haydn's symphonies and quartets were probably still thin on the ground. The instrument never had music worthy of it until Bach, inspired by the playing of Linike, wrote his cello suites. In Haydn's time, as in Bach's, it was probably still embraced by players of little attainment or promise, and simple cello parts in piano `trios' were a way of giving such performers an opportunity to participate with their more gifted colleagues. It would take little to arrange Haydn's trios as `violin sonatas', but it seems to me that Haydn - or you or I come to that - can perceive the benefit of cello sound to the overall effect, even if Professor Tovey does not.

The one thing I miss from this wonderful set is a clear account of the dates of the trios. I am not conversant with the Hoboken numbering-system, but it is not followed strictly here. Roughly, I would guess that the sequence of the works over these 10 discs follows the sequence of their composition. However there may be producer's or presentational reasons for departing from such rigid ordering, although I can't imagine any such reason for presenting the 3 flute trios, all on the same disc, in the (Hoboken) sequence 16/15/17.

You may be aware that Haydn also wrote trios for baryton viola and cello, of which I own a marvellous complete set on vinyl, not now available on cd so far as I know, but there seem to be others of comparable quality. Those could well be another treat if you are unfamiliar with this side of the master's output. In the short term, there are these trios to get acquainted with if we thought we knew Haydn but were actually missing something important.

Brilliant Classics indeed.

[Gurn Blanston]

I still love my Haydn Trio box from the Van Swieten Trio. I go back to it at some point every year and continue to relish the richness and vast musical knowledge incorporated into these works.



I really enjoyed coming across an excellent review of this set, on Amazon:

In fact, our conversation the other day had me pull out my Van Sweiten this afternoon. It is delightfully well played. Goes without saying that the music won me over years ago, so it only ever comes down to having a disk in the player that is suited to my taste. And these are, of course.

Not sure about the reviewer's dating problems. It seems perfectly logical to me that proper sequence is like this:

1 34 35 37 38 40 41 C1 36 f1 39 2 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 32 24 25 26 31 27 28 29 30

Doesn't it to you? 

Just as an aside, 15, 16 & 17 (the flute trios) go so well on a disk together, not from convenience (which he seems to imply) but because they actually were composed and published as a group. Probably just as well.



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Now playing:
Van Swieten Trio - Hob 15_13 Trio in c for Keyboard & Strings 1st mvmt - Andante

[kishnevi]

I think the reviewer was saying they were out of order, with 16 coming before 15, for no apparent reason.

although I can't imagine any such reason for presenting the 3 flute trios, all on the same disc, in the (Hoboken) sequence 16/15/17.

[Gurn Blanston]

I think the reviewer was saying they were out of order, with 16 coming before 15, for no apparent reason.

Ah, I see. Well, 16, 15, 17,  IS the order the were written in, according to Landon. Not unusual for a publisher in those days to order things any way they wanted. Note the order of the sets of 6 string quartets; Op 9, for example was published in the order 4, 1, 3, 2, 5, 6. So he is right, there IS some arbitrariness, but it stems from (in the trio case) 1789 rather than today.




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Now playing:
Van Swieten Trio - Hob 15_14 Trio in Ab for Keyboard & Strings 1st mvmt - Allegro moderato

[Leo K.]

It seems perfectly logical to me that proper sequence is like this:

1 34 35 37 38 40 41 C1 36 f1 39 2 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 32 24 25 26 31 27 28 29 30

Doesn't it to you? 

Indeed it does! It's common sense! lol 

[Leo K.]

Simply put, this recording captures the greatness of Haydn's cello concerti.

The performances here are a stunner. They really are.   

Truly, a wonderful recording of these concertos.

[Gurn Blanston]

Simply put, this recording captures the greatness of Haydn's cello concerti.

The performances here are a stunner. They really are.   

Truly, a wonderful recording of these concertos.

Amen to that. They are right up there with the top recordings, PI or not! You don't hear these works mentioned as often as they deserve to be. Apparently the cellists respect them though; there is hardly a great cellist that hasn't had a go at them.




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Now playing:
Van Swieten Trio - Hob 15_16 Trio in D for Keyboard, Flute & Cello 2nd mvmt - Andante pìu tosto Allegretto

[Antoine Marchand]

Simply put, this recording captures the greatness of Haydn's cello concerti.

The performances here are a stunner. They really are.   

Truly, a wonderful recording of these concertos.

Amen to that. They are right up there with the top recordings, PI or not! You don't hear these works mentioned as often as they deserve to be. Apparently the cellists respect them though; there is hardly a great cellist that hasn't had a go at them.

I love these concertos too, but I recall I had serious problems with this recording because of the position of the cello: too much forward to my taste. I prefer more balanced recordings as Suzuki, Bylsma and even Wispelwey.

[chasmaniac]

I love these concertos too, but I recall I had serious problems with this recording because of the position of the cello: too much forward to my taste. I prefer more balanced recordings as Suzuki, Bylsma and even Wispelwey.

Salient cello? Me want!

[Gurn Blanston]

I love these concertos too, but I recall I had serious problems with this recording because of the position of the cello: too much forward to my taste. I prefer more balanced recordings as Suzuki, Bylsma and even Wispelwey.

Well, I put that disk in my queue, it will come up in a bit. All I remember (from a year ago) is that it was very nicely played, not that he was holding the cello like a guitar. We'll see...   Of course, it is Bylsma and Suzuki who are in my regular rotation.



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Now playing:
Van Swieten Trio - Hob 15_17 Trio in F for Keyboard, Flute & Cello 2nd mvmt - Finale: Tempo di Menuetto

[Antoine Marchand]

Well, I put that disk in my queue, it will come up in a bit. All I remember (from a year ago) is that it was very nicely played, not that he was holding the cello like a guitar. We'll see...   Of course, it is Bylsma and Suzuki who are in my regular rotation.

Of course, I recall they were finalists in your Haydn project. But I don't know who was finally chosen. 

[Gurn Blanston]

Of course, I recall they were finalists in your Haydn project. But I don't know who was finally chosen. 

Actually, due to my inability to make a choice, these 2 concerti are the only pieces in the whole collection that still have 2 finalists in place. The problem for me is that there are 2 different styles in play; Suzuki is like a chamber work, and that is an accurate depiction of a prevailing style of the time. Bylsma is more like a concerto in the way we usually consider it, with a nice band and an out front soloist. They are both very good, I simply can't decide on which style I prefer. It's so sad for me; I will have to listen to them both many more times before making a final cut...



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Now playing:
Van Swieten Trio - Hob 15_20 Trio in Bb for Keyboard & Strings 3rd mvmt - Finale: Allegro

[Antoine Marchand]

Actually, due to my inability to make a choice, these 2 concerti are the only pieces in the whole collection that still have 2 finalists in place. The problem for me is that there are 2 different styles in play; Suzuki is like a chamber work, and that is an accurate depiction of a prevailing style of the time. Bylsma is more like a concerto in the way we usually consider it, with a nice band and an out front soloist. They are both very good, I simply can't decide on which style I prefer. It's so sad for me; I will have to listen to them both many more times before making a final cut...

Two master cellists and two different conceptions, indeed. I agree with you, a decision is not necessary.

I think I would also be in terrible problems to do some decisions about the piano sonatas. String quartets, piano trios and symphonies would be relatively easy compared to the piano sonatas.   

[Gurn Blanston]

Two master cellists and two different conceptions, indeed. I agree with you, a decision is not necessary.

I think I would also be in terrible problems to do some decisions about the piano sonatas. String quartets, piano trios and symphonies would be relatively easy compared to the piano sonatas.   

Yes, and it was particularly hard for me since I foolishly made a small collection of disks of performances on various period keyboards. So despite the basic fact of having pretty much ruled out a fortepiano before 1775, for example, that still left decisions such as cembalo or clavier? And then, which cembalo or clavier?  You can imagine the agony of having to listen to all that keyboard music!  

The problems rise, of course, in the late works. How does one choose? What criteria? I think we all like the power and flash of Brautigam, for example, but Haydn wrote the late works for ladies, specific ladies, not just as a dedication but with the music contoured to their strengths and weaknesses, just as one does with a singer in an opera. So what's proper then? Still working on it, I change my mind often. But I do have each work just once at any given time.




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Now playing:
Van Swieten Trio - Hob 15_22 Trio in Eb for Keyboard & Strings 3rd mvmt - Finale: Allegro

[Leo K.]

Well, I put that disk in my queue, it will come up in a bit. All I remember (from a year ago) is that it was very nicely played, not that he was holding the cello like a guitar. We'll see...   Of course, it is Bylsma and Suzuki who are in my regular rotation.



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Now playing:
Van Swieten Trio - Hob 15_17 Trio in F for Keyboard, Flute & Cello 2nd mvmt - Finale: Tempo di Menuetto

Since I love these cello concerti so much, I'm going to have to eventually try Bylsma and Suzuki. I'm again listening to the Queryas recording this morning and love it so! 

One thing about the Mullehjans/Queryas recording is the PI sound, a little rustic, a little refined, not perfect, but played with plenty of nuance and excitement. The balance of the cello may not be to everyone's taste, but Queyras' playing is so enchanting I don't mind at all 

[DavidRoss]

Since I love these cello concerti so much, I'm going to have to eventually try Bylsma and Suzuki. I'm again listening to the Queryas recording this morning and love it so! 

One thing about the Mullehjans/Queryas recording is the PI sound, a little rustic, a little refined, not perfect, but played with plenty of nuance and excitement. The balance of the cello may not be to everyone's taste, but Queyras' playing is so enchanting I don't mind at all 

Sounds as if I might need to put another Haydn disc in my cart.   

[Bogey]

Some Haydn on vinyl last night and tonight....is that even legal?   Shots from the web as I was too lazy to snap my own.

 

These Living Presence Hi-Fi Mercs are the best sounding vinyl on my little system.  Need to snag me some more. 

PS The Wolfie 40 ain't bad either.

[Gurn Blanston]

Some Haydn on vinyl last night and tonight....is that even legal?   Shots from the web as I was too lazy to snap my own.

 

These Living Presence Hi-Fi Mercs are the best sounding vinyl on my little system.  Need to snag me some more. 

PS The Wolfie 40 ain't bad either.

Yeah, I was thinking that would be a very nice tandem there. Wonder if that was ever released on CD...

[Bogey]

Yeah, I was thinking that would be a very nice tandem there. Wonder if that was ever released on CD...

From what I can see, no, but rather they started combining Dorati Haydn efforts on to cds....if it was, it was a brief release.