Haydn's Haus

[Bogey]

He wrote a 2nd Cecelia mass also, in 1782. That would be Hob 22:8. It is actually (well, no surprise really, many years newer) a bit more free-flowing and condensed too. I prefer it, but hey, that's just me.

I will roll that one out tomorrow.   

[Gurn Blanston]

I just put that set on my wish-list prior to reading your post. Wise move?

Well, it is a tad on the high side, and I have been getting a lot of feedback from our Hausmates that the Naxos set by the Rebel Baroque is a superior set and less than half the price. I think I would advise you at this point to consider that one instead. I like the Hickox a lot, but I think overall you would get more value (and more 'authenticity', whatever that is) from the Naxos set.

[Bogey]

Thanks!  I will start there, then.  Only $11 less, but the reviews are stronger.  Seems Handel and Purcell also paid homage to St. Cecilia.

 

I will follow with an avatar as well....have not changed it in a few hours, so here's to you MN Dave!

[Gurn Blanston]

Thanks!  I will start there, then.  Only $11 less, but the reviews are stronger.  Seems Handel and Purcell also paid homage to St. Cecilia.

Probably lots more than just them, too. She was the patron saint of musicians, and they all adopted her. There were Caecilian Societies, and the big "newsletter" of the time was The Caecilian.

I'm surprised the prices were that close. When I looked at the Naxos last week it was, like $32. The Chandos was going for <>$70 when last I saw.  




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Now playing:
Paul Badura-Skoda - Hob 17_9 Adagio in F for Keyboard

[Bogey]

Probably lots more than just them, too. She was the patron saint of musicians, and they all adopted her. There were Caecilian Societies, and the big "newsletter" of the time was The Caecilian.

I'm surprised the prices were that close. When I looked at the Naxos last week it was, like $32. The Chandos was going for <>$70 when last I saw.  




----------------
Now playing:
Paul Badura-Skoda - Hob 17_9 Adagio in F for Keyboard

Well, that is what they get for trying to set a price on Haydn's music.

[Gurn Blanston]

Well, that is what they get for trying to set a price on Haydn's music.

  Yep, priceless!  0:)

[Bogey]

This caught my eye as well:

[Antoine Marchand]

Seems Handel and Purcell also paid homage to St. Cecilia.

 

This mass has traditionally been associated to St. Cecilia (and known as Missa Sanctae Caeciliae or Cäcilienmesse), but the fact is that it was composed "in honorem Beatissimae Virginis Mariae", probably to be performed in 1766, during the feast of Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary, at the church of Mariazell. Perhaps the name Cäcilienmesse comes from a later version prepared for the Cäcilien-Congregation, or maybe from a performance on some St. Cecilia's day (22 November), but not from Haydn himself. Therefore, those names Missa Sanctae Caeciliae and Cäcilienmesse must be added to the other nicknames of  the Haydn's works. 

[mszczuj]

I am guessing that's Esterhazy Palace.

You're probably right:

https://picasaweb.google.com/111844303066587835259/Esterhaza?authkey=Gv1sRgCMr8kp7Ct4_9xwE#

[Gurn Blanston]

This mass has traditionally been associated to St. Cecilia (and known as Missa Sanctae Caeciliae or Cäcilienmesse), but the fact is that it was composed "in honorem Beatissimae Virginis Mariae", probably to be performed in 1766, during the feast of Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary, at the church of Mariazell. Perhaps the name Cäcilienmesse comes from a later version prepared for the Cäcilien-Congregation, or maybe from a performance on some St. Cecilia's day (22 November), but not from Haydn himself. Therefore, those names Missa Sanctae Caeciliae and Cäcilienmesse must be added to the other nicknames of  the Haydn's works. 

Sitting here with no reference works, Antoine, but unless I am sadly mistaken, the Mariazellermesse is the 2nd Cecelia mass, 22:8 from 1782. The date of the 1st one is all over the place, ranging from 1766 to 1773. Hard to draw any inferences from that...

[Gurn Blanston]

You're probably right:

https://picasaweb.google.com/111844303066587835259/Esterhaza?authkey=Gv1sRgCMr8kp7Ct4_9xwE#

Very cool! Is that you? I'm jealous if it is, I would certainly enjoy to go there! 

[SonicMan46]

I would like to hear this one since it has gotten good comments in a variety of places:

For those interested in the disc (pic at bottom), below is a post I left in the 'Old Musical Instrument' thread that might be of interest -

Keyed Trumpet - Haydn & Hummel 'Trumpet Concertos' - my only recording of works played on this 'short-lived' transitional trumpet that flourished briefly in the late 18th & early 19th centuries until replaced by the 'valved trumpet.'  The Viennese court trumpeter, Anton Weidinger, is considered the impetus (possibly inventor?) behind development of the keyed trumpet which permitted playing the chromatic scale over several octaves (according to the liner notes).

In 1796, Haydn wrote his Trumpet Concerto for Weidinger; and around 1803, Hummel composed his concerto for the same performer.  By 1815, Weidinger was at the height of his success and his instrument was apparently quite popular w/ numerous other works composed and concerts given highlighting the trumpet.  During the 1820s (and by the early 1840s), the keyed trumpet had been replaced by the valved instrument.

Concerning the recording, Reinhold Friedrich is just excellent and the trumpet is played beautifully w/ a sound that hearkens back to the days of the 'valveless' instrument - not sure 'how many' other recordings exist w/ this older instrument, but I'll do some searching.  A little more information can be found in this Wiki Article HERE - 

P.S. Picture of an older Friedrich w/ another style trumpet, added below, right - 

 

[Antoine Marchand]

Sitting here with no reference works, Antoine, but unless I am sadly mistaken, the Mariazellermesse is the 2nd Cecelia mass, 22:8 from 1782. The date of the 1st one is all over the place, ranging from 1766 to 1773. Hard to draw any inferences from that...

Gurn,
both masses - Hob. XXII:5 & XXII:8 - share the same title: Missa Cellensis. Haydn included his mass of around 1766 under this title in his catalogue, but for a long time  it was thought that he had made a mistake and this entry was a wrong reference to the mass of 1782. But currently it's clear that both of them were dedicated to the Mariazell church and that's the reason why these masses share the same title. 

[Gurn Blanston]

Gurn,
both masses - Hob. XXII:5 & XXII:8 - share the same title: Missa Cellensis. Haydn included his mass of around 1766 under this title in his catalogue, but for a long time  it was thought that he had made a mistake and this entry was a wrong reference to the mass of 1782. But currently it's clear that both of them were dedicated to the Mariazell church and that's the reason why these masses share the same title. 

Ah, OK, makes sense (as much as anything does, it seems). I was pretty sure the 2nd one had that name, but I haven't seen the first called anything but the 1st Cecelia Mass...

[Antoine Marchand]

Ah, OK, makes sense (as much as anything does, it seems). I was pretty sure the 2nd one had that name, but I haven't seen the first called anything but the 1st Cecelia Mass...

Yes, a good nickname is simply irresistible. 

[Antoine Marchand]

BTW, Gurn, talking about the masses, some weeks ago I needed to do a superhuman effort to resist this temptation:


(Nice picture of Gabriel on the cover!)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0000042DO/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&qid=1320071216&sr=8-15&condition=used

It's tempting, isn't it? 

[Gurn Blanston]

BTW, Gurn, talking about the masses, some weeks ago I needed to do a superhuman effort to resist this temptation:


(Nice picture of Gabriel on the cover!)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0000042DO/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&qid=1320071216&sr=8-15&condition=used

It's tempting, isn't it? 

Well, with the Rebel/Naxos in my cart, I have an easier time to resist temptation. In my experience, one could easily have too many masses.

I think you need to take up my invitation to discuss the Austrian tradition of inserting sonatas, concertos and even symphonies into the liturgical music. Surely this intrigues more than just myself.

[Antoine Marchand]

Well, with the Rebel/Naxos in my cart, I have an easier time to resist temptation. In my experience, one could easily have too many masses.

These days I have consistently been listening to those Naxos discs and are really fantastic. I am especially in love with their two sopranos: Ann Hoyt and Julie Liston. Their white (I am thinking in the notion of voce bianca), pure, juvenile voices are so incredibly suited to this music! Even the Cäcilienmesse sounds airy and light, when it is sung by those two angels.   

I think you need to take up my invitation to discuss the Austrian tradition of inserting sonatas, concertos and even symphonies into the liturgical music. Surely this intrigues more than just myself.

It sounds very interesting and intriguing, indeed. I will search for some information.   

[Gurn Blanston]

It sounds very interesting and intriguing, indeed. I will search for some information.   

Indeed it does, and should be. I chose that little gem especially for you, knowing your proclivities. Que and Florestan might find it toothsome also. The Mozart Epistle Sonatas fit nicely into this category as well as the Haydn early keyboard concertos.

[Florestan]

Indeed it does, and should be. I chose that little gem especially for you, knowing your proclivities. Que and Florestan might find it toothsome also.

Ha ha! Thanks for the confidence. 

The Mozart Epistle Sonatas fit nicely into this category as well as the Haydn early keyboard concertos.

Never heard about them. Care to elaborate, please?