Haydn's Haus

[Bogey]

#88 in general. You can take it as given that I almost never deal with specific performances (unless asked).

"The music is great, no matter who you like in it" is my motto.

Well, Cleveland was on fire in the final movement.  Break-neck pace, but it worked!

[Gurn Blanston]

Well, Cleveland was on fire in the final movement.  Break-neck pace, but it worked!

Cool! There are a lot of those orchestras, when they had a good driver at the helm, who really tore it up. Gives me another grin over how HIP goes so fast! I bet Brüggen takes it slower than Szell does.

[kishnevi]

Gurn, did you realize the Rebel set includes the Stabat Mater (conducted by Burdick)?

[kishnevi]

  Cool! I thought it was just me, the way people carry on about opera here. I listen to quite a bit now, but I am still wary of anything not by Haydn, Mozart or Beethoven. Let me tell you though, you are safe with Jacobs' DG. It is superb, and really, it is just a huge sonata in d minor. The singing isn't even OTT, this ain't at all like Verdi and Company. 

I've found the entire series of Jacobs-Mozart operas to be very worthwhile.  Cosi is the only one I don't have, and that is now winging its way across the ocean to me from Presto.  His Zauberflote is especially interesting because he approached it with the principle that the spoken portions of the libretto deserve the same quality of treatment as the sung portions--that the Spiel part of Singspiel must not be forgotten--and introduces some of the (audio) special effects a theater of Mozart's era might have provided at appropriate places. (and the musical quality is consistently high.)   One only wishes he would do some of the earlier operas (Abduction, at the very least), but apparently he's turned his attention to Handel now.

[Karl Henning]

See, he can't just say they are shamelessly post-Romantic without also saying that later, HIP/PI performances are dry. Just can't do it.

Aye, inveterate throwers of stones into their neighbor's gardens . . . .

[Gurn Blanston]

Gurn, did you realize the Rebel set includes the Stabat Mater (conducted by Burdick)?

No. That's great, I will have one to rightfully compare to my Pinnock. Thanks for the info, Jeffrey.

[Gurn Blanston]

Aye, inveterate throwers of stones into their neighbor's gardens . . . .

Exactly. I can talk about post-Romantic all day long without mentioning that it doesn't appeal to me. it's the professionals that seem to lack at times.

[TheGSMoeller]

Gurn, did you realize the Rebel set includes the Stabat Mater (conducted by Burdick)?

I recently purchased the individual disc of Rebel/Burdick's Stabat Mater, the tempos are slightly faster than Pinnock's and the female soloists have a lighter tone, both of these qualities are positives, I love both recordings and need more time with the Rebel recording, but the several listens I've had have been very rewarding.

[chasmaniac]

Gurn, did you realize the Rebel set includes the Stabat Mater (conducted by Burdick)?

And a lovely thing it is! You go, Gurn!

[Gurn Blanston]

I recently purchased the individual disc of Rebel/Burdick's Stabat Mater, the tempos are slightly faster than Pinnock's and the female soloists have a lighter tone, both of these qualities are positives, I love both recordings and need more time with the Rebel recording, but the several listens I've had have been very rewarding.

And a lovely thing it is! You go, Gurn!

This can only be a good thing, I'm never quite happy when there is only one choice available of anything. Despite that it is good. Of course, this is true of a lot of Haydn, he is tragically under-recorded. This will be a boon.

[Karl Henning]

Exactly. I can talk about post-Romantic all day long without mentioning that it doesn't appeal to me.

To say nothing of Atonal Honking! : )

[Gurn Blanston]

To say nothing of Atonal Honking! : )

No, I wouldn't go that far...

[Lethevich]

Gurn, I suppose you're the guy to ask - I have a morbid curiosity:

Are you aware of any transcriptions (or better, recordings) of Haydn's symphonies arranged for string quartet, or string quartets orchestrated?

[Gurn Blanston]

Gurn, I suppose you're the guy to ask - I have a morbid curiosity:

Are you aware of any transcriptions (or better, recordings) of Haydn's symphonies arranged for string quartet, or string quartets orchestrated?

No, not for string quartet. Some of the London symphonies have been arranged for keyboard, viola, cello & flute (IIRC) and there are readily available recordings. But I haven't heard any for just SQ...

[asin]B00009NOX2[/asin]

Have you actually heard of some? Or just casting about? 

[Lethevich]

It was that I tend to experience much of the same spirit in the symphonies and mid-late quartets, a kind of un-restrained and naturalistic joyfulness which almost breaches genre. In both instances - say, Opus 76 and the Paris series - the feeling of music-making of creative fecundity almost begs to overflow into different mediums just to be heard in new ways, such is the simmering invention. A strange reaction to get from such idiomatically written pieces, I know

It's nice to know that there is something along these lines in those Salomon arrangements

[Gurn Blanston]

It was that I tend to experience much of the same spirit in the symphonies and mid-late quartets, a kind of un-restrained and naturalistic joyfulness which almost breaches genre. In both instances - say, Opus 76 and the Paris series - the feeling of music-making of creative fecundity almost begs to overflow into different mediums just to be heard in new ways, such is the simmering invention. A strange reaction to get from such idiomatically written pieces, I know

It's nice to know that there is something along these lines in those Salomon arrangements

My, aren't we poetic today.   But I know what you mean and agree with you. I actually have one of those arrangements on this disk;

[asin]B0020LI68A[/asin]

and in perusing it I see that my first memory, of it being a violin and not a viola, was the correct one. In any case, I highly recommend this disk for the other things on it too, those 3 flute trios are excellent.

[Elgarian]

Blimey. I go off for a week's holiday and find I have a zillion pages to catch up - just in this thread! And then I spotted this:

Oh, here's another also;

Well now: one of the places I visited last week was one of the UK's last remaining specialist record shops - Bath Compact Discs - and they had a copy of this Schornsheim set in their racks. I was seriously tempted, but then I've bought a lot of Haydn recently - a lot of it still unlistened-to.  And meanwhile I found myself drawn irresistibly to some wonderful Handel opera bargains, and a set of period Mendelssohn Trios that they played for me in the shop while I browsed (ooh lovely), and before I knew where I was I'd spent all I could afford. So Schornsheim had to stay in the rack.

But after reading through some of this thread now, I found some samples from her set of concerti and have been listening to them. And even from those short snippets, I can tell that they are seriously fun, aren't they? I never thought the organ could sound so delightful, so light and airy. So thanks for reinforcing this recommendation Gurn - I intend to get one of these as soon as present finances recover.

[Gurn Blanston]

Blimey. I go off for a week's holiday and find I have a zillion pages to catch up - just in this thread! And then I spotted this:

Well now: one of the places I visited last week was one of the UK's last remaining specialist record shops - Bath Compact Discs - and they had a copy of this Schornsheim set in their racks. I was seriously tempted, but then I've bought a lot of Haydn recently - a lot of it still unlistened-to.  And meanwhile I found myself drawn irresistibly to some wonderful Handel opera bargains, and a set of period Mendelssohn Trios that they played for me in the shop while I browsed (ooh lovely), and before I knew where I was I'd spent all I could afford. So Schornsheim had to stay in the rack.

But after reading through some of this thread now, I found some samples from her set of concerti and have been listening to them. And even from those short snippets, I can tell that they are seriously fun, aren't they? I never thought the organ could sound so delightful, so light and airy. So thanks for reinforcing this recommendation Gurn - I intend to get one of these as soon as present finances recover.

Yes, actually I was quite surprised by them myself, who is also not much of an organ fan. I have them also on harpsichord and some on fortepiano, and find that the organ versions are my preference. And the organs that Haydn had access to in those days weren't the huge monsters of today but small, like you would imagine a chamber organ, for example. So the sound is corresponding, of course. Just for amusement, you could very authentically insert one into a mass, like between the Credo and the Sanctus, and have an idea what they were actually composed for. #2, 5 or 10 would be a good choice for that, IMO.



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Now playing:
Anima Eterna \ Immerseel - Hob 18_11 Concerto in D for Keyboard 3rd mvmt - Rondo all'Ungarese: Allegro assai

[Bogey]

Gurn, I suppose you're the guy to ask - I have a morbid curiosity:

Are you aware of any transcriptions (or better, recordings) of Haydn's symphonies arranged for string quartet, or string quartets orchestrated?

That is like asking for a diet Mountain Dew or worse yet, margarine for your lobster!

[Gurn Blanston]

Part 10
   1761

So, we finally reach the year when Haydn has become employable, and by a man of substance. To be clear, and this is not always made so, Haydn's first Esterhazy employer was not the famous Nicholas the Magnificent. Prince Paul Anton Esterhazy was an acquaintance of Count Morzin, and when he discovered that Haydn, composer of the many entertainments that he had enjoyed at Morzin's palace, was at loose ends, he immediately made a job offer. His own court composer and Kapellmeister, Gregory Joseph Werner, was very old with not a lot longer on earth. Taking the long view, Prince Paul went with a patently talented and vital young man. The ironic joke in all this is that Werner outlived Esterhazy by nearly 5 years, but that's not as important as that Haydn's future was secured for life. He was formally appointed Vice-Kapellmeister on May 1, 1761, although he had been working informally for several months for the Esterhazy's in Vienna, where they over-wintered every year before retiring to Eisenstadt for the summer months.

The music of 1761 doesn't provide the quantity of 1760, but certainly some interesting qualities show up.

The music:

Hob 01_003 Symphony in G
Hob 01_015 Symphony in D
   The Hanover Band / Goodman


Hob 01_006 Symphony in D
Hob 01_007 Symphony in C   
Hob 01_008 Symphony in G
   Concilium musicum Wien / Angerer


Hob 02_08 Divertimento in D for 2 Flutes, 2 Horns, 2 Violins & Basso
Hob 02_14 Divertimento a quattro in C for 2 Clarinets & 2 Horns
Hob 02_17 Divertimento a nove Stromenti in C for 2 Clarinets, 2 Horns, 2 Violins, 2 Violas & Basso
Hob 02_24 Divertimento fragment in Eb for Flute, 2 Cors Anglaise, Bassoon, 2 Horns, 2 Violins & Basso (Fragment - 1 movement remains, a Tempo di Menuetto)
   Haydn Sinfonietta Wien / Huss


Hob 02_33 Scherzando #1 in F
Hob 02_34 Scherzando #2 in C
Hob 02_35 Scherzando #3 in D
Hob 02_36 Scherzando #4 in G
Hob 02_37 Scherzando #5 in E
Hob 02_38 Scherzando #6 in A
   Haydn Sinfonietta Wien / Huss


Hob 03_10 Divertimento in F for Strings Op 2 #4
Hob 03_12 Divertimento in Bb for Strings Op 2 #6
   Hamburg Soloists / Emil Klein


Hob 07a_04 Concerto in G for Violin
   The English Concert / Pinnock  Standage


Hob 16_13 Sonata #15 in E for Keyboard
   Christine Schornsheim
Hob 16_14 Sonata #16 in D for Keyboard
   Ulrika Davidsson


Hob 24b_01 Aria for Soprano "Costretta a piangere"
   Manfred Huss / Haydn Sinfonietta Wien /  Miah Persson


Some interesting new pathways being explored here. In the symphony realm, we come upon the first famous ones, #6, 7 & 8, often called "Morning, Noon & Night Symphonies", and it's true, they do constitute a set. It is believed that Haydn wrote them at the suggestion of Prince Paul. They are chock-full  of beauties, many of them coming in the way of concertante solo writing for the several virtuosi in the orchestra. And tone painting (a sunrise, for example, along the lines he would use for the rest of his career, including the beautiful Op 76 "Sunrise" quartet, and in The Creation). I like this version by Concilium Musicum Wien, although there are many from which to choose.

Another new form, unknown from any other quarter, is the set of 6 "Scherzandi". Each one is a miniature, 4 movement symphony, lasting an average of 10 minutes. It has been proposed, and I agree (without evidence except human nature) they were a tour de force novelty that Haydn wrote to impress and please Prince Paul. They appear to be the very first items composed after employment was confirmed. The 2 versions I show are actually the same one, the Koch/Schwann original, and the BIS re-release of 10 years later.

Also now, we find the first Aria. After the years working with Porpora, who was a brilliant (if cranky) composer, you can see that Haydn already knew what he was doing, right from the beginning. Miah Persson does a lovely job with this one, the entire disk is excellent.

So that's the beginning of the big times. I hope you all have at least a few of these to enjoy, and will share your impressions here.





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Now playing:
Lola Odiaga (Fortepiano) - Hob 16_34 Sonata #53 in e for Keyboard 1st mvmt - Presto