Haydn's Haus

[Sergeant Rock]

And finally, a singspiel. The Burning House...this is quite a nice little production. The Capella Augustina / Spering are as good as they are elsewhere...

And the two CDs are only €5.99 at JPC now 

Sarge

[Florestan]

The 18th century aesthetic was completely different than the 19th century, and the music filled up as much as it was asked to do. There simply is no comparison [...]

To me, nearly all composers who stayed on the tonal bus tend to get more and more drawn out, using 200 measures to say what a Classical composer said in 12.

Now, if the difference was so complete and no comparison can be made, then it folows that what Romantics said in 200 measures is not what Classicists said in 12. Otherwise please show us some concrete 200 measures of Mahler saying the same thing as some concrete 12 measures of Haydn.

Sorry for the insistence, but this Classical / Romantic dichotomy and "adversity" is a subject that has preoccupied me for quite some time and I tend to reconciliation (or rather cohabitation) rather than sharp division.

[Bogey]

I am a Romantic who admits loving Classicism.

No, wait, I am a Classicist who admits loving Romanticism.

Actually, no, I'm a Baroque who admits loving both Classicism and Romanticism.

Urmmmm... never mind.

and add early music (see early music club) and music of the Renaissance....

In short, I will dive into one, listen and discuss here for days, tire of it a bit and rediscover one that I had left out for a while.  An unpredictable cycle of listening, if you will.

[Jared]

In short, I will dive into one, listen and discuss here for days, tire of it a bit and rediscover one that I had left out for a while.  An unpredictable cycle of listening, if you will.

I could have written that sentence myself.. 

[Sergeant Rock]

The Festetics are another example; their jollity is not to everyone's taste.

It's not the jollity we Festestics-detractors object to: it's that horribly sour first violin.

Sarge

[Karl Henning]

I couldn't see Sarge objecting to jollity, per se.

[Gurn Blanston]

Oh good, I woke everyone up. Just as nature abhors a vacuum, so does Gurn with lethargy.

Nothing like a few good, sweeping generalizations to stir things. Do I believe in any of that stuff? Well, I don't want to, but I see it often enough to remember it. No, I'm not saying that there is no one who is pan-stylistic in taste. Certainly there are lots of generalists out there. You are probably the majority. Conversely, it isn't you who are usually making statements like "I hate Classical music, too dry, doesn't make sense" and "Mozart really sucks, his music is totally meaningless, I don't see how anyone can listen to that". But just because you aren't saying it, doesn't mean it isn't being said. And I have most certainly seen it written here very often, usually by people who claim to like Romantic to Late Romantic music, that they can't even bring themselves to listen to Classical. For whatever reason.

There, nice little wake-me-up. Thanks, guys.



----------------
Now playing:

  London Haydn Quartet - Hob 03_36 Quartet in A for Strings Op 20 #6 1st mvmt - Allegro di molto e scherzando

[Karl Henning]

The intravenous eddication injections are the worst, don'tcha find?

They're working on a patch, aren't they?

Rossini: I take him [Beethoven] twice a week, Haydn four times, and Mozart every day.

Tchaikovsky: Mozart is the highest, the culminating point that beauty has attained in the sphere of music.

Brahms: If we cannot write with the beauty of Mozart, let us at least try to write with his purity.

Grieg: In Bach, Beethoven and Wagner we admire principally the depth and energy of the human mind; in Mozart, the divine instinct.

Schumann: Does it not seem as if Mozart's works become fresher and fresher the oftener we hear them? (add to this that Schumann studied Mozart's and Haydn's SQs much more than Beethoven's before writing his own)

Wagner: The most tremendous genius raised Mozart above all masters, in all centuries and in all the arts.

Saint-Saens: Give Mozart a fairy tale and he creates without effort an immortal masterpiece.

Dvorak: Mozart is sweet sunshine.

Faure: Mozart's music is particularly difficult to perform. His admirable clarity exacts absolute cleanness: the slightest mistake in it stands out like black on white. It is music in which all the notes must be heard.

Chopin: Mozart encompasses the entire domain of musical creation, but I've got only the keyboard in my poor head.

Gounod: As with all great artists, Mozart expressed not only the soul, the taste and the aroma of his epoch, but also the spiritual world of man-man for all ages, in all the complexity of his desires, his struggles and ambivalence. Some of us, who only identify in Mozart a certain aristocratic refinement, may find these words strange. Often we meet with a condescending attitude towards him, to his music, reminiscent of chiming bells in a music box! ...'It's very nice, but not for me' say such people, 'give me passion - Beethoven, Brahms, tragic, monumental...' Such comments only reveal one thing, these people don't know Mozart.

Love these all. But then, I would, wouldn't I? : )

[Florestan]

[...]statements like "I hate Classical music, too dry, doesn't make sense" and "Mozart really sucks, his music is totally meaningless, I don't see how anyone can listen to that". [...]I have most certainly seen it written here very often, usually by people who claim to like Romantic to Late Romantic music, that they can't even bring themselves to listen to Classical. For whatever reason.

One of the reasons might have to do with age and I'm not joking. It is my personal experience that teenagers and youngsters (roughly speaking, under 30) at their first exposure to music are much more likely to appreciate Mahler than Mozart and Bruckner than Haydn. They also tend to favor orchestral over chamber music and to dismiss opera altogether. Most of them evolve though to a broader stance as time goes by.

[Karl Henning]

So those Mozart numbers doubtless include a bucket load of "Relax with", "A Night at the Opera" and "Favorite Adagios" type of CDs.

Aye, 'tis arrant knavery, that we have no Baby's First Haydn : )

(Or Baryton Adagioze)

[Florestan]

Aye, 'tis arrant knavery, that we have no Baby's First Haydn : )

Anyone any proposition for the "Lullaby" Symphony? 

[Gurn Blanston]

One of the reasons might have to do with age and I'm not joking. It is my personal experience that teenagers and youngsters (roughly speaking, under 30) at their first exposure to music are much more likely to appreciate Mahler than Mozart and Bruckner than Haydn. They also tend to favor orchestral over chamber music and to dismiss opera altogether. Most of them evolve though to a broader stance as time goes by.

That's a very reasonable supposition, Florestan. Hard to discount the possibilities. Mahler in particular seems to attract people who were brought up with a different musical background. I suppose I should like him for that reason alone. Nah   But still...  What does this say about attention span though. Traditionally, that broadens with age. In this case, it would seem the opposite.

[Gurn Blanston]

Anyone any proposition for the "Lullaby" Symphony? 

I guess the last movement of 'Farewell'. By the time the last candle is extinguished, baby sleeps like... a puppy! 

[Florestan]

What does this say about attention span though. Traditionally, that broadens with age. In this case, it would seem the opposite.

I wouldn't put it in terms of attention span. After all, if one's attention wanders away for 5 or even 10 minutes during a Mahler symphony there's no irreparable harm done. But lose 5 or 10 minutes during Haydn and you're lost for good: it might end before you even noticed, leaving you baffled: what? is this all?

I tend to think more in terms of "coming of age": at 40 one is more likely to appreciate concision and restraint than at 20. 

[Florestan]

I guess the last movement of 'Farewell'. By the time the last candle is extinguished, baby sleeps like... a puppy! 

[jlaurson]

One of the reasons might have to do with age and I'm not joking. It is my personal experience that teenagers and youngsters (roughly speaking, under 30) at their first exposure to music are much more likely to appreciate Mahler than Mozart and Bruckner than Haydn. They also tend to favor orchestral over chamber music and to dismiss opera altogether. Most of them evolve though to a broader stance as time goes by.

I agree in a 'felt' sort of way... and also in that I've found that with age, people tend toward the baroque. But then, my favorite composer as a kid was Haydn, bar none, and only later in life did I unlock the beauty of the romantics. Bruckner tends to come later, rather than earlier in life.

It is possible, however, to appreciate Haydn in a renewed, deepened sense when one gets older... for different reasons than humor and easy manner.

It is certainly easier to 'impress' with DSCH or Mahler, than with a well crafted Haydn piece.

[mszczuj]

But lose 5 or 10 minutes during Haydn and you're lost for good:

Minutes? Seconds!

[Gurn Blanston]

Acting on a rec I got here (maybe it was from Sarge??) I got these 2 disks today. At <$10 including S&H for the both of them, I could hardly say no!  I was always in that odd little minority that enjoyed Norrington's Beethoven with these performers, so having a go at their Haydn seemed natural.



I suppose that if I do like them, then getting the remainder will cost a minor fortune...  

Anyone heard them already?

[Sergeant Rock]

Acting on a rec I got here (maybe it was from Sarge??)

Not me...or maybe you misunderstood me. It's the Norrington/Stuttgart performances I like so much. I've never heard his earlier Haydn with the LCP...which, come to think of it, is strange because I love the LCP Beethoven. 99-104 can be had for just €9.99 now. Hmmmm..... There may be another cat in my future 

Sarge

[Gurn Blanston]

Not me...or maybe you misunderstood me. It's the Norrington/Stuttgart performances I like so much. I've never heard his earlier Haydn with the LCP...which, come to think of it, is strange because I love the LCP Beethoven. 99-104 can be had for just €9.99 now. Hmmmm..... There may be another cat in my future 

Sarge

Well, it was a while back, at the time I didn't even know that Norrington had done any Haydn. Whoever brought it up said they were quite good, I just hadn't happened to see them available until last week. They're in the queue now, so we shall see.