Haydn's Haus

[kishnevi]

Acting on a rec I got here (maybe it was from Sarge??) I got these 2 disks today. At <$10 including S&H for the both of them, I could hardly say no!  I was always in that odd little minority that enjoyed Norrington's Beethoven with these performers, so having a go at their Haydn seemed natural.



I suppose that if I do like them, then getting the remainder will cost a minor fortune...  

Anyone heard them already?

I have 99-104 all together on a Virgin budget 2-for-1. (Is that the 9.99 Euro set Sarge is referring to?) It's been too long since I listened to them, but I remember liking them at the time.   I just can't remember the details of why I liked them.

[Florestan]

Merry Christmas everyone & God bless you all!

[Sergeant Rock]

I have 99-104 all together on a Virgin budget 2-for-1. (Is that the 9.99 Euro set Sarge is referring to?)

This is the one I ordered (from Amazon DE)

[asin]B003BKF6DW[/asin]


Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

My ears remain pan-epochally voracious.

Mine too. What's the aural equivalent of omnivore? Omniear?    From the medieval troubadours through Haydn to Henning...love it all.

Sarge

[Geo Dude]

One of the reasons might have to do with age and I'm not joking. It is my personal experience that teenagers and youngsters (roughly speaking, under 30) at their first exposure to music are much more likely to appreciate Mahler than Mozart and Bruckner than Haydn. They also tend to favor orchestral over chamber music and to dismiss opera altogether. Most of them evolve though to a broader stance as time goes by.

I think there is some truth to this, albeit my experience with the reaction to chamber music is not what you're describing, or rather, what you've described in other posts.  When I first got into classical in my late teens coming from a rock/metal background I was immediately attracted to Beethoven, Wagner, Mahler, Stravinsky, Shostakovitch, Holst (Planets), Rachmaninoff...the usual suspects.  I was not a fan of Haydn, Mozart, or Mendelssohn because I felt they were shallow, lacking in emotional content. (After some concerted effort, I recently managed to come to love Haydn and Mozart at the ripe old age of twenty four. )  However, I did seek out plenty of chamber music and enjoyed it greatly simply because it was easier to adapt to listening to a small ensemble setting (like you'd find in rock or metal or jazz) than an orchestra. 

That said, when speaking with other new classical fans from my musical background I found that most weren't listening to chamber music simply because they weren't aware of it, for the most part.  Most of the people they had on hand to ask about classical music were casual fans who knew the grand, big works.  Beethoven's symphonies and such.  I do realize that you've stated before that you've met young people who actively hate chamber music, though, so I'm sure my experience in this area is not universal.

[Sergeant Rock]

But as a long term interest, I don't see how one can afford, in either time or money, to be totally catholic. If I was to research and study every composer that I really do like (let's narrow it down to those for the sake of argument), I would be long dead before I got half through the list. So I have just 4, and I will be lucky to learn them before I depart this mortal coil.

Which is why I appreciate your mini-series: condensing years of Haydn study down to the essentials for those who don't have the time. My four, the main thrust of my music library and research, are Bruckner, Mahler, Havergal Brian and the Schumann's (Robert and Clara).

Sarge

[Gurn Blanston]

Which is why I appreciate your mini-series: condensing years of Haydn study down to the essentials for those who don't have the time. My four, the main thrust of my music library and research, are Bruckner, Mahler, Havergal Brian and the Schumann's (Robert and Clara).

Sarge

Mine (of course) are Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven & Schubert. I see a commonality to this in terms of style, time and place etc. There is about as much stylistic difference between early Haydn and late Schubert as between early Schumann and late Brian, it seems. I took 2 easy ones and 2 hard ones. It may sound disingenuous to call Haydn and Schubert 'hard', but from a research POV, the literature is miniscule and very spread out vs Mozart & Beethoven, whose complete works and the many dozens of available books I was able to collect as fast as I could afford them.  I still don't have much on Schubert; glad I had the foresight to save him for last!   0:)



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Now playing:


The London Classical Players \ Norrington - Hob 01_101 Symphony in D 4th mvmt - Finale: Vivace

[Gurn Blanston]

I have 99-104 all together on a Virgin budget 2-for-1. (Is that the 9.99 Euro set Sarge is referring to?) It's been too long since I listened to them, but I remember liking them at the time.   I just can't remember the details of why I liked them.

This is the one I ordered (from Amazon DE)
[asin]B003BKF6DW[/asin]
Sarge

Well, I got this one last night off the Marketplace;


so I think that I will have the functional equivalent of that same box. Back when EMI had them, of course, they could only put 2 per disk, don't want to crowd up those bits and bytes too much, you know....

[Leo K.]

Well, Pinnock's "Sturm und Drang" box is quite a treat! The sound of the first disk is everything I hoped it would be--the transparency is so beautiful. This is only my second PI Hadyn symphony collection next to the Bruggan London Symphonies on Phillips.

[Gurn Blanston]

Well, Pinnock's "Sturm und Drang" box is quite a treat! The sound of the first disk is everything I hoped it would be--the transparency is so beautiful. This is only my second PI Haydn symphony collection next to the Brüggen London Symphonies on Phillips.

Delighted you like them. Leo. They were my first set of S&D's too, and rather sold me on the lot of them. They bring out the excitement and pathos that I am sure Haydn wanted to display in those pieces. Another, and more accurate descriptive name for them is Empfindsang which is generally translated into "feeling" or "with emotion". I don't think there is a literal translation, but the gist is that they should display sensitivity as well as exuberance. I think the English Concert does that quite well.



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Now playing:


Tafelmusik; Bruno Weil - Hob 01_089 Symphony #89 in F 1st mvmt - Vivace

[Gurn Blanston]

Part 27

1778

The new regime at Esterháza kept building. To the point where;

"In 1778 Haydn sold his house in Eisenstadt; the court now stayed at Eszterháza at least ten months every year, and he increasingly spent the short winter season in Vienna. The very long stays at Eszterháza were linked to Nicolaus's reorganization of the theatrical entertainment there in 1776. Now there was a regular 'season' each year, comprising opera, stage plays and marionette operas (in a separate small theatre); in principle there was theatrical entertainment every evening the prince was in residence. At first, stage plays predominated (184 evenings in 1778, as opposed to only 50 operas – and only two musical academies; four others took place during the day, in the 'apartments')" The New Grove Haydn

Now, that's a full time job!

Still there was time for a few symphonies, one of which appears to have used stage music again, but two others that were independent pieces. No more baryton music. A lovely piano sonata in c# minor that was the first of a set of 6 that was completed the following year, and which would become among the first legitimately published works when Haydn and Artaria hooked up the following year. But I jump ahead... The Libera me Responsorium was for an unknown funeral service. It is the last part of a Requiem Mass, although there is no reason to suppose that he wrote as entire mass. The parts themselves, in Haydn and Elssler's handwriting were discovered in 1966 by Robbins-Landon. 

And an opera, of course...

The music of 1778;

Hob 01a_15 Overture to La Vera Costanza: Sinfonia in  Bb
   Manfred Huss / Haydn Sinfonietta Wien


Hob 01_053 Symphony in D
   Concentus Musicus Wien / Harnoncourt
Hob 01_070 Symphony in D
   The Hanover Band / Goodman
Hob 01_071 Symphony in Bb
   The Hanover Band / Goodman


Hob 16_36 Sonata #49 in c# for Fortepiano
   Andreas Staier


Hob 22b_01 Responsorium in d minor "Libera me" (part of a Requiem Mass)
   Tafelmusik / Bruno Weil


Hob 28_08 Opera  La Vera Costanza
   Chamber Orchestra of Lausanne / Dorati  Norman / Donath / Ahnsjö / Lövaas


Well, some symphonies again! These all date from the second half of the year, so Haydn went at least 18 months without his staple product. The Hob 53 symphony in D is one that we discussed a bit last year, in that among its (at least) four iterations, the overtures in D from the previous year accounted for at least 2 beyond what we hear here. Hogwood presents it with 2 different finales, A & B. I have yet to have an opportunity to sit and listen to them to see if his other finale is indeed the 4th combination of movements. In any case, I rather like Harnoncourt's treatment here. As well as I can find, those are the only two PI bands that have recorded this piece. Possibly Solomons has, but I can't find it anywhere to see.

We will see next year that among other things, Haydn was in a position to deal with music publishers. His first sale to Artaria (his Vienna publisher for the next decade) would be a set of 6 keyboard sonatas. If you recall, back in 1771 we discussed a beginning of a sonata in c minor, Hob 20. That completed sonata would end the set, and this c# minor one would begin it. It is a very nice work, in a style that is halfway between popular and learned, thus perfect to publish for a large audience. I have chosen the one by one of my favorite performers, Andreas Staier for inclusion here, but I know there are many others (I have 7 PI versions myself).

The 'Libera me' is, as discussed above, part of a Requiem Mass, thus in the normal key of d minor. It really is a pity that more info about it is not available. Landon wrote about it in 1966 when he found and identified the parts, but otherwise not a whole lot. Not even many recordings as far as that goes, but if you have the Tafelmusik/Weil you really don't need another anyway. They even had ME cryin'....

And finally, the year's opera, La Vera Costanza  (True Constancy) . Composed in 1778, premiered in April 1779, it is a dramma giocoso in 3 acts on a libretto by Puttini. The original score was destroyed in the Great Fire of 1779 and the version we know today was reconstructed by Haydn for a revival in 1785. It is the story of a virtuous girl who gets the crappy end of the stick. There, I've summed it all up for you! But boy, the music it takes to get to a resolution for her problems is superb. You should never take my comments on opera seriously vis-à-vis the story lines and all. I see the humor (there are only, like 4 total story lines that all operas share between them) but it doesn't in any way denigrate my great respect for the beauty and quality of a fine operatic effort. And this is that, in the composition and in the performance, where we lean again on the steadfast Dorati et al.

OK, 1778 is winding down, and we will soon be moving on to 1779, one of the momentous years in the Haydn Saga.

As always, discussion is encouraged.

[Leo K.]

Another great installment Gurn! This is a great way to follow along with my Haydn listening, so I can tell the context in any given work, and makes it easier to skip around his long career if I wish, to compare different periods.

One thing I want to mention, that is important for me personally, is the discovery of the earlier works, such as Op.9 and Op.17 (of which I'm enjoying the London Haydn Quartet accounts). Listening to these are complete revelations. I will never keep my distance from early Haydn EVER again!

Prior to listening to Haydn more extensively in recent years, the main composers of my research where Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Brahms, Ives and Mahler. Haydn has now become an all consuming project! Him along with Anton Bruckner (and recently Elgar) are becoming my exclusive focus of research and listening.

Of course to shake things up, are the unknowns and unheards, the contempories of those mentioned above that help provide context and refreshment.

An embarrassment of riches indeed!

[Gurn Blanston]

Thank you much, Leo. I am delighted that it is helpful to quite a few people now. Especially, I am pleased about the discovery of the earlier works. I think that people have a habit (well, I know they do) of comparing, for example, a symphony form 1758 to one from 1794, and concluding that the early one is no good because it doesn't match the quality of the later one. I see that sentiment expressed frequently, although not always with Haydn, necessarily, but I seen Mozart operas compared with Wagner's!   

Anyway, once we get up to the mid to late 1780's I think the abundance of familiar music will draw in a lot more P'sOV, which can only be a good thing.



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Now playing:


Quatuor Festetics - Hob 03_44 Quartet in Bb for Strings Op 50 #1 4th mvmt - Finale: Vivace

[Leo K.]

Thank you much, Leo. I am delighted that it is helpful to quite a few people now. Especially, I am pleased about the discovery of the earlier works. I think that people have a habit (well, I know they do) of comparing, for example, a symphony form 1758 to one from 1794, and concluding that the early one is no good because it doesn't match the quality of the later one. I see that sentiment expressed frequently, although not always with Haydn, necessarily, but I seen Mozart operas compared with Wagner's!   

Anyway, once we get up to the mid to late 1780's I think the abundance of familiar music will draw in a lot more P'sOV, which can only be a good thing.





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Now playing:


Quatuor Festetics - Hob 03_44 Quartet in Bb for Strings Op 50 #1 4th mvmt - Finale: Vivace

I also didn't explore the middle period symphonies, and I'm in the midst of that now, and it's a wonderful consideration, especially the "sturm und drang" symphonies. I can't wait to hear the stylistic change (after sturm und drang) I'm about to hear soon!

[Leo K.]

Oh, and Haydn's operas are truly a discovery. After hearing a lot of classical opera lately, it is quite interesting to hear what Haydn was doing in Esterhazy's rather isolated kindom!

[Gurn Blanston]

Oh, and Haydn's operas are truly a discovery. After hearing a lot of classical opera lately, it is quite interesting to hear what Haydn was doing in Esterhazy's rather isolated kingdom!

I would like to be able to compare to other settings, but one would have to have a huge library. For example, La vera costanza that we just discussed, was originally set in 1776 in Rome by Anfossi, a premiere Italian operatist of the day. Haydn was said to admire him greatly, and in fact, instead of redoing Anfossi's greatest scene in the opera, he instead incorporated it intact as a tribute. Anyway, it would be interesting to hear some other settings by way of comparison.

[Leo K.]

I would like to be able to compare to other settings, but one would have to have a huge library. For example, La vera costanza that we just discussed, was originally set in 1776 in Rome by Anfossi, a premiere Italian operatist of the day. Haydn was said to admire him greatly, and in fact, instead of redoing Anfossi's greatest scene in the opera, he instead incorporated it intact as a tribute. Anyway, it would be interesting to hear some other settings by way of comparison.

I was just listening to the first two acts of an Anfossi opera the other day, his La Finta Giadiniera, which I dearly love. I haven't heard Mozart's account for such a long time that I can't compare, but I will say it is SO worth the experience to have an Anfossi opera on hand (I only have two by him) 

Alas, it is too bad there aren't more recordings of Anfossi, but then again, it helps me not get carried away. 

[Gurn Blanston]

I was just listening to the first two acts of an Anfossi opera the other day, his La Finta Giadiniera, which I dearly love. I haven't heard Mozart's account for such a long time that I can't compare, but I will say it is SO worth the experience to have an Anfossi opera on hand (I only have two by him) 

Alas, it is too bad there aren't more recordings of Anfossi, but then again, it helps me not get carried away. 

In this hobby, it is important to be able to find the bright side of every situation.   Hmm, he shared a Mozart opera too, eh? He has only been a name to me so far. Guess I'll have to try to expand on that.

[Gurn Blanston]

Part 28

1779

The year that would shape Haydn's future for the next 20 years was finally here. Some of the events of this year;

For the first time since 1761, Haydn is given an entirely new contract, not just appendices to the old one. Much of it is the same old thing, of course. Then, as now, boilerplate was commonplace. However, one very important clause is no longer present. In rereading it last night, I almost missed it because it was done by omission rather than commission; Haydn's work was no longer deemed to be the property of the Prince, he could sell it to anyone he wanted!  As a life-shaping item for an artist, this was as big as it got in those days.

Second, the opera house burned down.   Big Deal? Indeed it was, since a huge proportion of his original manuscripts were inside at the time and were lost forever. No one knows how much, really. It is awful to contemplate. He did reconstruct many of the operas, but other things, like chamber music, symphonies, songs; likely lost forever. So it goes.

And finally, he got himself a girlfriend. Yes, it's true. 30 year old Luigia Polzelli.
"The majority of the insertion arias and simplifications were composed for Luigia Polzelli, a young Italian mezzo-soprano who joined the troupe in March 1779 along with her much older husband, a violinist. Both proved inadequate and were dismissed in December 1780 – but promptly rehired: Luigia and Haydn had become lovers, a relationship that, like so many in that milieu, was probably an open secret." The New Grove

He more or less "kept" her until his trip to England, and the ending dragged on until his death. Since DNA testing was in its infancy back then, there is no way to know if the child she bore was his or not. She thought he was, Haydn never committed one way or the other. However, he did treat the lad very well in later years, so who can say?  But the important thing is the effect she had on his music; she caused him to write more, and some of his nicest arias for her. We will see two of them this year. There will certainly be more down the road, though.

The music of 1779;

Hob 01a_13 L'Isola Disabitata: Overture in g
   Manfred Huss / Haydn Sinfonietta Wien


Hob 01_063 Symphony in C  "La Roxelane"
   The Academy of Ancient Music / Hogwood
Hob 01_070 Symphony in D
Hob 01_075 Symphony in D
   The Hanover Band / Goodman


Hob 16_35 Sonata #48 in C for Fortepiano
Hob 16_38 Sonata #51 in Eb for Fortepiano
   Ingrid Haebler
Hob 16_37 Sonata #50 in D for Fortepiano
   Andreas Staier
Hob 16_39 Sonata #52 in G for Fortepiano
   Malcolm Bilson
Hob 16_33 Sonata #33 in c for Clavier (completed)
   Joanna Leach


Hob 18_11 Concerto in D for Cembalo
   Pinnock, Trevor/English Concert
Hob 18_11  Concerto in D for Fortepiano
   Concerto Copenhagen / Mortensen Brautigam 


Replacement Arias;
Hob 24b_02  Aria for Soprano "D'una sposa meschinella"  for Donna Stella (S) in "La frascatana" by Paisiello
Hob 24b_03 Aria for Soprano "Quando la rosa" for Nanina (S) in "La Metilda ritrovata" by Anfossi
   L'Orfeo Baroque Orchestra / Gaigg   Nuria Rial


Hob 28_09 Opera L'isola disabitata
   Chamber Orchestra of Lausanne / Dorati  Zoghby / Lerer / Alva / Bruson


Symphonies! Well, so to speak. Hob 63 is called La Roxelane because it incorporates in its second movement, some music from a stage play "Suleiman II" in which Roxelane was a character, the wife of Suleiman (the Magnificent). And it's first movement is actually a reworking of the overture to 1777's Il mondo della Luna which you will recall came in for some heavy recycling. Don't think, however, that this makes this symphony any less enjoyable or effective. I am using Hogwood's version here, it is the only PI one I have. But there is also a nice performance by the Orpheus Chamber Orchestra if you have any of those disks. That was my intro to this symphony, and I have always liked it.

I admit here to a mistake in last year's listing. So easy to do, I'm afraid. Symphony #70 in D, listed in many sources as from 1778, was in fact composed for the ceremony for the laying of the cornerstone of the new opera house, in December, 1779. Among other interesting features, it has the first fugal finale since Symphony Hob 40 in 1763. It's a beauty and shouldn't be missed. Sorry about all that.

And finally, another symphony in D, Hob 75. The slow introduction here lulls you for a moment, and then it takes off on a wild ride that I always enjoy. Especially the horn parts, which haven't been really prominent of late. And some nice little dissonances that keep the ear's attention.

Now the first works completed for publication. The set of Hob 35-39 & 20. As we saw, #36 was completed first, in 1778. The other 5 were finished in 1779 and off they went to Artaria. I have pretty much dealt the 6 out to different players, as is my preference. But you don't have to, there are disks out there or the whole 6. Staier's is. Haebler's is 5 of them less Hob 20. FYI, this is an historic disk, being one of the very first fortepiano disks ever released (recorded in 1969!). I bought it for the sake of having an historical object, with no real hopes for it. I was very surprised and pleased at the sound quality and the great sense of style that Haebler brought over from the modern piano to this one. Her Mozart on modern piano is one of my favorites, and now her Haydn (and JC Bach for that matter) on fortepiano raise her even higher in my esteem. But hey, that's just me....

And now it's the girlfriend thing. As you no doubt understood from the New Grove quote, Luigia wasn't the world's greatest singer. But Haydn wanted her to do well and have a chance to perform, so he not only made sure that she got parts, but also wrote arias that would suit her voice. Not a big range or anything fancy, they are nonetheless beautifully written, some of his best in fact. You can see they were a labor of love. We get two of them this year, for operas by Anfossi and Paisiello. For now, this is the only way I have to see what operas were performed aside from Haydn's own.

And finally, L'isola disabitata (The Desert Island). An opera seria (azione teatrale) on a libretto by the incomparable Metastasio. It was first performed on Nikolaus' name day, December 6, 1779. This is a really nice little opera, the poetry is of the highest standard, and Haydn wrote music that matched it. We have Dorati again, but there are other versions of this one that I have been trying to get my hands on. I got seriously outbid on eBay at my last effort, but for now, I, and you, will be quite content with Dorati.

OK, 1779. New things happening, new doors opening. Great music still being written. As the last two decades unfold, we are on the threshold of greatness.

As always, discussion welcome,

[Leo K.]

In this hobby, it is important to be able to find the bright side of every situation.   Hmm, he shared a Mozart opera too, eh? He has only been a name to me so far. Guess I'll have to try to expand on that.

Exactly!

I have Anfossi's La Finta Giadiniera as a recorded broadcast, and it's a shame it's not available commercially. It is a stunning work in every way. I think Mozart's version is modeled somewhat on Anfossi's take, which came out in 1774 I think. I'll find a link to the broadcast soon and post it in the Classical Opera thread if that's okay.