Haydn's Haus

[Gurn Blanston]

Well, I have a wife of artistic genius, so I don't need to imagine it : )  I rather like it; but Mozart mightn't have . . . maybe Haydn would not have . . . .

The implication I have read has always been that she wasn't intellectually capable of understanding his music, though. Despite the fact that she was a trained (and good) singer, for example. It was misogyny at its finest, actually.

[Karl Henning]

No, I didn't really emphasize it at all. In some cases I would suspect that it is much like Mozart's situation; intimations without proof. But OTTOMH, Polzelli & Schröter for sure, and Genziger possibly, and some of the singers at Esterháza probably; he told Dies that 'for some reason, women have always loved me, I don't understand why...'. Since he got married in 1759 (IIRC), this was all extramarital. I just didn't want to sidetrack the story.. . . .

Emphasis mine (but you knew that). Your chronology is rich as it stands, Gurn, and I appreciate that you didn't go heavy on the sidebars.

Along those lines, as long a career and as deep a catalogue of compositions as were Haydn's, how do you keep a film to a 90-minute feature? Two things (or, either of the two) which Grabsky would have liked to include, only no such performance seemed to emerge during the time of production:  a fully staged opera, or a full performance of a Mass.

Another thing missing, though I cannot at all faut him (can't do everything in such a timeframe) is: the baryton.

[Leon]

No, I didn't really emphasize it at all. In some cases I would suspect that it is much like Mozart's situation; intimations without proof. ...  I just didn't want to sidetrack the story. I also didn't talk much about how he screwed the publishers, since I felt like it was ample payback for how they screwed him. Music publishing was a dirty and devious business back in those days.

We are the happier for those decisions.  Music publishing still is, btw.

[Gurn Blanston]

Along those lines, as long a career and as deep a catalogue of compositions as were Haydn's, how do you keep a film to a 90-minute feature? Two things (or, either of the two) which Grabsky would have liked to include, only no such performance seemed to emerge during the time of production:  a fully staged opera, or a full performance of a Mass.

Another thing missing, though I cannot at all fault him (can't do everything in such a timeframe) is: the baryton.[/font]

There are a couple of excellent DVD's of full operas too;

[asin]B002XG8KOW[/asin]

which is Jacobs & Co.

and this one;

[asin]B00408MS9O[/asin]

which is Harnoncourt. I want to get them, I haven't paid enough attention to things on DVD yet, only CD's so far.

A baryton performance would have been an outstanding adjunct! 

[Gurn Blanston]

We are the happier for those decisions.  Music publishing still is, btw.

I have heard that. Some things never change. I know that they have done very little to make ME happy...

[Karl Henning]

1801
Hob 21_03 Oratorio "The Seasons"
   English Baroque Soloists / Gardiner Monteverdi Choir

Sung in which language, O Gurn?  Or is this work solamente in tedesca . . . ?)

[TheGSMoeller]

Speaking of The Seasons, The Grant Park Orchestra is performing the piece this summer, if you're around the Chicago area, the concerts are free and the orchestra is top-notch with musicians form all over the country.


Haydn: The Seasons
Rich with evocations of the natural world, Haydn's ebullient oratorio conjures up festive wine parties, thunderstorms, hunting expeditions, peasant dances, and a stirring ode to labor.

WHEN: Friday, August 10, 2012, 6:30pm; Saturday, August 11, 2012, 7:30pm
WHERE: Jay Pritzker Pavilion
WHO: Grant Park Orchestra And Chorus
Carlos Kalmar, Conductor
Layla Claire, Soprano
Benjamin Butterfield, Tenor
Ben Wager, Bass

[Gurn Blanston]

Sung in which language, O Gurn?  Or is this work solamente in tedesca . . . ?)

Sí, amigo mío, es sólo en alemán.

That's a nice version though...

[Gurn Blanston]

Speaking of The Seasons, The Grant Park Orchestra is performing the piece this summer, if you're around the Chicago area, the concerts are free and the orchestra is top-notch with musicians form all over the country.


Haydn: The Seasons
Rich with evocations of the natural world, Haydn's ebullient oratorio conjures up festive wine parties, thunderstorms, hunting expeditions, peasant dances, and a stirring ode to labor.

WHEN: Friday, August 10, 2012, 6:30pm; Saturday, August 11, 2012, 7:30pm
WHERE: Jay Pritzker Pavilion
WHO: Grant Park Orchestra And Chorus
Carlos Kalmar, Conductor
Layla Claire, Soprano
Benjamin Butterfield, Tenor
Ben Wager, Bass

Cool, I'd go...

[Karl Henning]

Sí, amigo mío, es sólo en alemán.

That's a nice version though...

Bene. Found a good cheap copy . . . .

[TheGSMoeller]

Bene. Found a good cheap copy . . . .

I have that one, Karl, along with the Kuijken.
Gardiner is better.

[jlaurson]

Sung in which language, O Gurn?  Or is this work solamente in tedesca . . . ?)

Sí, amigo mío, es sólo en alemán.

Not. so. fast!



Mister Haydn
The (very English) Seasons
Sir Thomas Beecham / Royal Phil.
EMI

Incidentally, I think Rene Jacobs' recording of this is one head, two shoulders above the competition.



Herr Haydn
The (perfectly German) Seasons
Rene Jacobs / Freiburg BO
HM

[Gurn Blanston]

Sung in which language, O Gurn?  Or is this work solamente in tedesca . . . ?)

Sí, amigo mío, es sólo en alemán.



Not. so. fast!



Mister Haydn
The (very English) Seasons
Sir Thomas Beecham / Royal Phil.
EMI

Incidentally, I think Rene Jacobs' recording of this is one head, two shoulders above the competition.



Herr Haydn
The (perfectly German) Seasons
Rene Jacobs / Freiburg BO
HM

Well, there are Italian and French versions of The Creation, too, but Haydn didn't really have anything to do with that. He only did a German "Seasons", which is what I meant. That's interesting though.

I've been looking at that Jacobs 'Seasons', hadn't pulled the trigger yet though. I reckon I ought to. I like Kuijken's version, very low key it is. Which isn't a bad thing. I kind of feel differently about 'The Seasons' than 'The Creation'; bigger is better with Creation, but with the Seasons, not so much.

[jlaurson]

Well, there are Italian and French versions of The Creation, too, but Haydn didn't really have anything to do with that. He only did a German "Seasons", which is what I meant. That's interesting though.

I've been looking at that Jacobs 'Seasons', hadn't pulled the trigger yet though. I reckon I ought to. I like Kuijken's version, very low key it is. Which isn't a bad thing. I kind of feel differently about 'The Seasons' than 'The Creation'; bigger is better with Creation, but with the Seasons, not so much.

Yes, I knew what you meant. But there are no other recordings of The Creation in other languages? And Haydn and England/English is of course a special connection. Not just because the Creation is originally in English, or because of the Haydn reception and his career's autumn there, but because the Seasons is based on an English poem/text.

Anywho... Seasons is very different from Creation... more 'difficult', 'smaller'. And it's that curious character that Jacobs really hones in on, which makes the relative advantage of this Haydn recording so much greater than that of any other Jacobs-Haydn recordings. If I only were allowed two Jacobs recordings, it would be this, and his Cosi.

[Gurn Blanston]

Yes, I knew what you meant. But there are no other recordings of The Creation in other languages? And Haydn and England/English is of course a special connection. Not just because the Creation is originally in English, or because of the Haydn reception and his career's autumn there, but because the Seasons is based on an English poem/text.

Not sure if you are asking me or telling me.   I haven't seen any, but there are performances of it in French, Italian and Russian that I know of, and in fact they were done first while Haydn was still living. Not sure about recordings though, I would be curious to hear one.

Anywho... Seasons is very different from Creation... more 'difficult', 'smaller'. And it's that curious character that Jacobs really hones in on, which makes the relative advantage of this Haydn recording so much greater than that of any other Jacobs-Haydn recordings. If I only were allowed two Jacobs recordings, it would be this, and his Cosi.

Yes, despite reading what I could find on this oratorio, I still come away feeling that I am missing something vital about it. But that is why I like the Kuijken recording, it has a 'chamber'y' feel to it that appeals. Apparently, one can scarcely acquire Jacobs' recording any longer. Personally, I have liked everything that group have done together, especially Mozart's operas. I'll definitely keep my eyes open for a copy of this disk.

[Karl Henning]

Jens's answer fits my query, although Gurn twigged what I was after.

[jlaurson]

Not sure if you are asking me or telling me.   I haven't seen any, but there are performances of it in French, Italian and Russian that I know of, and in fact they were done first while Haydn was still living. Not sure about recordings though, I would be curious to hear one.

asking--and presuming. about recordings, not performances, though.
after hearing Isolde's Liebestod in Italian, I realized why curiosity has on occasion led to feline demise.

Then again, there are surprising incidences where the non-original language leads to really neat results. I very much enjoy Goodall's Wagner in English. Or some of those Mackerras recordings for Chandos' "Opera in English" series. Like his Cosi. And that, even though I don't think English is all that suitable a language to sing in, for classical music. (Less so than you would think, at least, with most popular music today being done in English, no matter its pedigree.) I've come rather off that absurd high horse that esp. lighter operas ought to be done in the original language, always. Sure, super- and MET-titles are nice... but understanding what the hell is going on on stage is nicer, still. Die Fledermaus, in fact, is one piece that I think should never be done in anything but the vernacular.

Yes, despite reading what I could find on this oratorio, I still come away feeling that I am missing something vital about it. But that is why I like the Kuijken recording, it has a 'chamber'y' feel to it that appeals. Apparently, one can scarcely acquire Jacobs' recording any longer. Personally, I have liked everything that group have done together, especially Mozart's operas. I'll definitely keep my eyes open for a copy of this disk.

Indeed, both versions seem to be oop. I don't know if you do "Third Party" sellers, but the original issue can be had for a reasonable price in Germany and France -- and the Haydn Anniversary box is said to be only temporarily out of stock on Amazon.com (link above). But I doubt HM will let that recording languish out of print for long. It's just that some of those re-issues esp. of Jacobs opera recordings seem to trample on their own feet, sometimes... That marvel of a Cosi was variously available and unavailable in three different editions, I remember.

[Gurn Blanston]

asking--and presuming. about recordings, not performances, though.
after hearing Isolde's Liebestod in Italian, I realized why curiosity has on occasion led to feline demise.

Well, I can't say one has never been done, only that I've never seen or heard of any. 

Then again, there are surprising incidences where the non-original language leads to really neat results. I very much enjoy Goodall's Wagner in English. Or some of those Mackerras recordings for Chandos' "Opera in English" series. Like his Cosi. And that, even though I don't think English is all that suitable a language to sing in, for classical music. (Less so than you would think, at least, with most popular music today being done in English, no matter its pedigree.) I've come rather off that absurd high horse that esp. lighter operas ought to be done in the original language, always. Sure, super- and MET-titles are nice... but understanding what the hell is going on on stage is nicer, still. Die Fledermaus, in fact, is one piece that I think should never be done in anything but the vernacular.

Indeed, both versions seem to be oop. I don't know if you do "Third Party" sellers, but the original issue can be had for a reasonable price in Germany and France -- and the Haydn Anniversary box is said to be only temporarily out of stock on Amazon.com (link above). But I doubt HM will let that recording languish out of print for long. It's just that some of those re-issues esp. of Jacobs opera recordings seem to trample on their own feet, sometimes... That marvel of a Cosi was variously available and unavailable in three different editions, I remember.

Well, I have discovered, much to my chagrin, that most of the time I can't understand the words no matter the language. This unfortunate hearing problem may well be at the root of my preference for instrumental music (which I don't have a particular issue with) over vocal (which is a laborious process for me).

I will keep my eyes open for something available. Someone earlier was mentioning music publishers in a rather negative sort of way, and this sort of thing (despite not being a 'print' issue) is just what irritates me about them.

[Gurn Blanston]

Well, after a short hiatus for mentally recharging, I have resumed my editing and updating of the earliest essays in the Haydn chronology series. Here is the link to Part 6 - 1757. I hope you enjoy it, and anything you want to add, or talk about, I am as interested in discussion as ever.

[chasmaniac]

Well, I have discovered, much to my chagrin, that most of the time I can't understand the words no matter the language. This unfortunate hearing problem may well be at the root of my preference for instrumental music (which I don't have a particular issue with) over vocal (which is a laborious process for me).

That's interesting. I generally don't understand the words either, yet I very much like vocal music. Voice-as-instrument I guess.