Haydn's Haus

[DavidRoss]

Yeah, I was torn there, David. Op 20 is a beauty. I went for the slam dunk though, since I don't know that much about what Rinaldo likes. It has always been my opinion that anyone who can't like Op 76 needs to give up on Classical Era music altogether.

I happily defer to your judgment in all things Haydn.

[Rinaldo]

*scribbles down 20, 76*

Thanks guys!

[Gurn Blanston]

I happily defer to your judgment in all things Haydn.

Frightfully kind of you, sir.

*scribbles down 20, 76*

Thanks guys!

You'll be pleased. Please let us know what you think. IMHO, Haydn is one of the very few composers that isn't an acquired taste. But it always helps to have a toehold on where to start when the oeuvre is 1000 works long. 

[Gurn Blanston]

My introduction to Haydn was this disc:



But just about any disc of his piano trios would be fine.

That's so unusual! That was my very first disk of piano trios too, that exact one! I heard the BAT on the radio and thought I would buy one of theirs, and that's what was in the store. It is excellent, a good choice for an intro, just as you say.

[Daverz]

Some recommended discs for the symphonies.

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The big box is a whole lotta Haydn at once, but is so cheap on the Marketplace that I think it's a no-brainer.

[Gurn Blanston]

Daverz,
I have the 101-104 disk by Mackerras/St. Lukes, and it is indeed a nice choice. I'll give this one consideration now, thanks to you. I've got a million 'Farewell's", but a good Hornsignal is worth the hunt (no pun, sorry).   

[Daverz]

Daverz,
I have the 101-104 disk by Mackerras/St. Lukes, and it is indeed a nice choice. I'll give this one consideration now, thanks to you. I've got a million 'Farewell's", but a good Hornsignal is worth the hunt (no pun, sorry).   

I was more recommending these for starters, but by all means don't miss this Hornsignal.  Be advised that Mack was one of those conductors who included every repeat.  Forgivable when the playing is so lovely.

[Gurn Blanston]

I was more recommending these for starters, but by all means don't miss this Hornsignal.  Be advised that Mack was one of those conductors who included every repeat.  Forgivable when the playing is so lovely.

Oh, I take recommendations from anyone, even if not intended for me.   Mack is my #1 MI conductor; pity he didn't do more Haydn. I'd'a been all over it.

[Gurn Blanston]

Yeh - it did not take me long to get the complete set and then another one, and one more ...

There ya go; Lay's Piano Trios by J. Haydn... 

[Mirror Image]

So I bought Bernstein's Haydn set on Sony for a $1, what do you guys make of the music-making here? Is it on a high-level? I can't say I'm familiar with every symphony Haydn composed, but many years ago I listened to his London and Paris symphonies quite a bit. I bought the huge box of Dorati conducting when it was reissued and those seemed to be good, reliable performances. What do you think about Dorati's set, Gurn? For HIP performances, I heard Harnoncourt was hard to beat.

[Gurn Blanston]

So I bought Bernstein's Haydn set on Sony for a $1, what do you guys make of the music-making here? Is it on a high-level? I can't say I'm familiar with every symphony Haydn composed, but many years ago I listened to his London and Paris symphonies quite a bit. I bought the huge box of Dorati conducting when it was reissued and those seemed to be good, reliable performances. What do you think about Dorati's set, Gurn? For HIP performances, I heard Harnoncourt was hard to beat.

Lots of questions there, MI! I can't answer some of them because I don't know the particular recordings. Here's what I do though.

I never heard Bernstein with NYPO. I have an excellent disk of him with the VPO doing #88 & 92. I have to leave that to someone else beyond there.

I have some Dorati. The 'Paris' Double Decca is very nicely done. There again, the sound quality might not be up to your expectations. Most MI (oh, modern instruments in this usage) recordings are of the older variety and many of them suffer from poorer sound compared to newer recordings. That's just the way of things. If you are inclined towards those types of recordings, I have been told that the Solti/Cleveland London's are very nice.

If you want a PI set of symphonies, well, there isn't one that is complete. Harnoncourt does do a complete London set, but it is with the Concertgebouw, so not PI. His PI works with the Concentus Musicus Wien only go as late as the Paris set (worth having though!).  I would recommend the Minkowski, but it is just bizarre enough that it would make a poor choice for a first set. I really don't know what choices I would make specifically for you. Kuijken is wonderful, but I fear you would feel that he was underpowered a little bit. Maybe not though. If you can get his Japanese box set at what you consider to be a good price;

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As for the non-London ones, given what I know about you and what I know about the recordings, I think that Fischer on Brilliant is the right choice for you. It is on modern instruments, but no matter. The playing is excellent, idiomatic enough, historically correct and recorded in the same room in Esterháza that Haydn's own orchestra originally premiered them. When I have had voids in good PI performances, these are the ones I use to fill gaps. They are miles better than Dorati and especially that other new box on Sony (sorry, can't remember the guy's name).

Anyway, that's what I would do. Your mileage may vary, of course.....

[Mirror Image]

Lots of questions there, MI! I can't answer some of them because I don't know the particular recordings. Here's what I do though.

I never heard Bernstein with NYPO. I have an excellent disk of him with the VPO doing #88 & 92. I have to leave that to someone else beyond there.

I have some Dorati. The 'Paris' Double Decca is very nicely done. There again, the sound quality might not be up to your expectations. Most MI (oh, modern instruments in this usage) recordings are of the older variety and many of them suffer from poorer sound compared to newer recordings. That's just the way of things. If you are inclined towards those types of recordings, I have been told that the Solti/Cleveland London's are very nice.

If you want a PI set of symphonies, well, there isn't one that is complete. Harnoncourt does do a complete London set, but it is with the Concertgebouw, so not PI. His PI works with the Concentus Musicus Wien only go as late as the Paris set (worth having though!).  I would recommend the Minkowski, but it is just bizarre enough that it would make a poor choice for a first set. I really don't know what choices I would make specifically for you. Kuijken is wonderful, but I fear you would feel that he was underpowered a little bit. Maybe not though. If you can get his Japanese box set at what you consider to be a good price;

[asin]B000EBDCUA[/asin]

As for the non-London ones, given what I know about you and what I know about the recordings, I think that Fischer on Brilliant is the right choice for you. It is on modern instruments, but no matter. The playing is excellent, idiomatic enough, historically correct and recorded in the same room in Esterháza that Haydn's own orchestra originally premiered them. When I have had voids in good PI performances, these are the ones I use to fill gaps. They are miles better than Dorati and especially that other new box on Sony (sorry, can't remember the guy's name).

Anyway, that's what I would do. Your mileage may vary, of course.....

Excellent! Thanks for the information, Gurn. The PI Harnoncourt and Fischer may be my next Haydn purchases. Thanks again. By the way, I've been enjoying the box set of concerti released on Naxos. Those violin concerti Haydn wrote are outstanding.

[Rinaldo]

Just a quick stop after I've listened online to the Mosaïques playing Op. 76 no. 1.

I hereby attest that my mind was utterly blown.

[Madiel]

I hereby attest that my mind was utterly blown.

In a good way, we hope!

PS Op.76 was my introduction to Haydn.  The Kodaly Quartet on cassette, when I was a teenager.

[Rinaldo]

In a good way, we hope!

In the best way possible – by the finale, I was dancing around the room. Now off to explore the rest of Op. 76! I think I've just found my autumn gloom remedy.

[Karl Henning]

So I bought Bernstein's Haydn set on Sony for a $1, what do you guys make of the music-making here? Is it on a high-level?

Yes, a superb level. It's "juicier" than a HIP survey, but also nervier and more energetic than is typical for a "big[ger] band" account. As with a number of Lenny projects, entirely convincing in execution, but not a template for general interpretation.

[DavidW]

So I bought Bernstein's Haydn set on Sony for a $1, what do you guys make of the music-making here? Is it on a high-level? I can't say I'm familiar with every symphony Haydn composed, but many years ago I listened to his London and Paris symphonies quite a bit.

Bernstein's Paris symphonies are my second favorite, my favorite being Harnoncourt.  They are both of the highest caliber.  You chose well imho.

[Gurn Blanston]

Excellent! Thanks for the information, Gurn. The PI Harnoncourt and Fischer may be my next Haydn purchases. Thanks again. By the way, I've been enjoying the box set of concerti released on Naxos. Those violin concerti Haydn wrote are outstanding.

You are most welcome. Don't look further than this for the Harnoncourt PI (non-London) symphonies:



Finding them individually is tough. If you want to try his Concertgebouw Londons this box is the way to go:

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Otherwise you will be searching out single disks until the cows come home!

I'm delighted that you are enjoying those concertos. You know, he is on the border between Baroque and what the concerto became after Mozart changed it forever with his piano concertos. As a result, not all of them have gotten the love they deserve. The exceptions being his 1st cello concerto and his trumpet concerto, both of which are so outstanding that they surpass the expectations of any age. I find the violin concertos to be quietly outstanding and can only think that his personal violinist, Luigi Tomasini for whom they were written, must have been a fine fiddler!

Cheers, enjoy!

[Gurn Blanston]

Just a quick stop after I've listened online to the Mosaïques playing Op. 76 no. 1.

I hereby attest that my mind was utterly blown.

0:)

I'm delighted. And as much as I revel in #1, IMO #2 is even better. There isn't a weak spot in the entire set, actually. This is the major instrumental effort of the post-London years. He never completed Op 77/103, and the Trumpet Concerto, outstanding as it is, is merely a one-off novelty for him. But Op 76 is the instrumental Crown Jewel of his old age.

Cheers,

[Gurn Blanston]

Yes, a superb level. It's "juicier" than a HIP survey, but also nervier and more energetic than is typical for a "big[ger] band" account. As with a number of Lenny projects, entirely convincing in execution, but not a template for general interpretation.

Bernstein's Paris symphonies are my second favorite, my favorite being Harnoncourt.  They are both of the highest caliber.  You chose well imho.

Thanks, guys. I simply didn't know. Now I'm glad I do. Maybe I'll find a bargain on it like MI did and snap it up myself.   You already know how I feel about his VPO 88 & 92...