Haydn's Haus

[Sergeant Rock]

Sarge, do you have the Fischer cycle?  If you do, it was too bad that they did not include with it (at least I believe they did not) what is deemed the 105 as it is included by Fischer in the big brick from Brilliant.  However, in the brick set it is titled Sinfonia Concertante in B flat major for Violin, Cello, Oboe, and Bassoon.  Maybe I missed it, but I thought 104 capped it.  I am listening to the Sifonia right now and it does sound like a symphony.....but wait, here come the solo instruments.  However, it does carry the Hob I:105....is it a hybrid....either way, very nice piece.

I don't own the entire Fischer set, just parts bought in order to plug gaps in my collection. The box with 21-39 also includes Hob.107 and 108 (listed as Symphonies A and B) but not 105. As I said in the Purchase thread, Fey's 105 is the first I have on CD (I have Böhm's on LP). It is a Sinfonia Concertante, not a symphony. (It was composed in London 1792 as a display piece for Salomon and friends.) I don't know why it was given that Hob. number. The liner notes to the Fey performance are stylistically Germanic, i.e., dense and offering little practical information. Perhaps Gurn has the answer.

Sarge

[Karl Henning]

Why is it not in this set?



Might as well had included it like they did in my brick set.

Good morning, Bill!

I'm sure you've checked it through (big though the Brick be) . . . but it seems odd to me that such a late work, especially, should be "dropped" from the Brick

[Gurn Blanston]

Sarge, do you have the Fischer cycle?  If you do, it was too bad that they did not include with it (at least I believe they did not) what is deemed the 105 as it is included by Fischer in the big brick from Brilliant.  However, in the brick set it is titled Sinfonia Concertante in B flat major for Violin, Cello, Oboe, and Bassoon.  Maybe I missed it, but I thought 104 capped it.  I am listening to the Sifonia right now and it does sound like a symphony.....but wait, here come the solo instruments.  However, it does carry the Hob I:105....is it a hybrid....either way, very nice piece.

OK, your turn, Gurn.

I don't own the entire Fischer set, just parts bought in order to plug gaps in my collection. The box with 21-39 also includes Hob.107 and 108 (listed as Symphonies A and B) but not 105. As I said in the Purchase thread, Fey's 105 is the first I have on CD (I have Böhm's on LP). It is a Sinfonia Concertante, not a symphony. (It was composed in London 1792 as a display piece for Salomon and friends.) I don't know why it was given that Hob. number. The liner notes to the Fey performance are stylistically Germanic, i.e., dense and offering little practical information. Perhaps Gurn has the answer.

Sarge

Well, I know a lot about the piece, but can only speculate on why Hoboken included it with the symphonies. Sinfonia concertante is clearly not a symphony, the closest genus I can place it in is concerto grosso. My speculation is that he put it with the symphonies because it was one-of-a-kind and there was really nowhere else to reasonably put it.

In 1792, Haydn's second season in London, the Professional Concert (or The Professors, as Haydn called them) were trying like hell to compete with the Salomon Concert Series. So they brought Ignaz Pleyel over from Paris where he was very successful both as a composer and a flourishing music publisher. He was also a former and long time student of Haydn, and the premise was that he would put on some works that would enable a butt-kicking, as it were. In the event, Haydn and Pleyel renewed their long-standing friendship instead of being rivals, but one of the more pleasant outcomes of the affair was that, since Pleyel specialized in the particularly French specialty of sinfonies concertante, Haydn decided to write one for performance in a concert that was, like a week or two away!  He did it successfully, of course, and this Bb little gem is the result.

Hoboken lists 108 symphonies, by the way.

105 is this work

106 is a single movement overture which turned out to be the overture to the opera La Pescatrici which the opera had been lost. When much of it was found, the overture was with it. So it had a Hob 28 number too, and should have a Hob 1a number, but I guess that's excessive.

107 is Symphony A in Bb

108 is Symphony B also in Bb.

I can write more on those two works if anyone is interested and I'm not at work. They are both on Fischer too, they were composed far longer ago, the late 1750's.

Hope that helped.

[Karl Henning]

Well, I know a lot about the piece, but can only speculate on why Hoboken included it with the symphonies. Sinfonia concertante is clearly not a symphony, the closest genus I can place it in is concerto grosso. My speculation is that he put it with the symphonies because it was one-of-a-kind and there was really nowhere else to reasonably put it.

Better sense to include it with the symphonies (many of which feature concertante passages) than with the solo concerti.

[Gurn Blanston]

Better sense to include it with the symphonies (many of which feature concertante passages) than with the solo concerti.

Yeah, that's what I think too. An underlying thing is that it has always been very closely associated with the London Symphonies, and is more easily remembered as an adjunct to them. But it's all grosso speculation...

[kishnevi]

Bill (and others)

I just rechecked the Brilliant 100 CD Symphonies box to be sure. 

Fischer did record the Sinfonia Concertante.  In my set, it's on the same CD as Symphonies 91 and 92.  Those who think they don't have it might want to check the equivalent CD in their set, and hopefully have a pleasant surprise.

BTW, Bernstein fans should note that he recorded 105 for DG; it's in the Bernstein Haydn Collector's Edition box. (Sarge, I thought you had that group of recordings?)

[Gurn Blanston]

Bill (and others)

I just rechecked the Brilliant 100 CD Symphonies box to be sure. 

Fischer did record the Sinfonia Concertante.  In my set, it's on the same CD as Symphonies 91 and 92.  Those who think they don't have it might want to check the equivalent CD in their set, and hopefully have a pleasant surprise.

BTW, Bernstein fans should note that he recorded 105 for DG; it's in the Bernstein Haydn Collector's Edition box. (Sarge, I thought you had that group of recordings?)

Thanks for that info, Jeffrey. I knew it was on there, but I couldn't remember what disk it was on so I just didn't mention it at all. I need to move some library materials into my office.... 

[Gurn Blanston]

I have been listening to the Violin Concertos, which have until now been fairly ignored by me     and enjoying the heck out of them!

This recording especially:

[asin]B0062Z22DK[/asin]

That's a great disk! I've always been a big Carmignola fan since he started in with his Vivaldi recordings. When we here first discovered that this would be released, I was quite excited about it. In the event, it was worth the wait, I think his Baroque background serves him wonderfully well in this early Haydn.   

[mc ukrneal]

Bill (and others)

I just rechecked the Brilliant 100 CD Symphonies box to be sure. 

Fischer did record the Sinfonia Concertante.  In my set, it's on the same CD as Symphonies 91 and 92.  Those who think they don't have it might want to check the equivalent CD in their set, and hopefully have a pleasant surprise.

BTW, Bernstein fans should note that he recorded 105 for DG; it's in the Bernstein Haydn Collector's Edition box. (Sarge, I thought you had that group of recordings?)

The same for the symphonies only set - same disc.

[Bogey]

Good morning, Bill!

I'm sure you've checked it through (big though the Brick be) . . . but it seems odd to me that such a late work, especially, should be "dropped" from the Brick

It's in the brick (that's how I have it), but thought it was not in symphony set....

[Bogey]

The same for the symphonies only set - same disc.

Cool.  Sorry for all the confusion I caused. However, if confusion leads to discussing Haydn then it was worth it.

[Karl Henning]

No need to apologize, Bill. I actually consider it something of a public service to cause a little confusion from time to time : )

[Sergeant Rock]

BTW, Bernstein fans should note that he recorded 105 for DG; it's in the Bernstein Haydn Collector's Edition box. (Sarge, I thought you had that group of recordings?)

No, I don't have that box (do have the Sony monster). Of Lenny's recordings in the DG box, I have individual CDs with 88, 92, 94 and the Missa in tempore belli (originally on Philips). No Lenny 105 in my collection.




Sarge

[mc ukrneal]

Cool.  Sorry for all the confusion I caused. However, if confusion leads to discussing Haydn then it was worth it.

No problem. It is not on the cover, but it is on the disc cover for that disc:

[Karl Henning]

Oh, this wicked, wicked, Haus! : )

Found Used - Very good copies of the Orpheus band playing n^os. 22, 44, 53, 63, 73, 77, 79 & 80.

[Bogey]

Oh, this wicked, wicked, Haus! : )

Found Used - Very good copies of the Orpheus band playing n^os. 22, 44, 53, 63, 73, 77, 79 & 80.

Maybe there is a 105 on it, but they ain't sayin'.

[Daverz]

Another Haydn disc you should have:



if you can find it.  May be the best Il Distrato ever.  It was also re-issued on the short-lived Artemis label for all of 10 minutes. 

[Mirror Image]

This landed today:



Should be good.

[Gurn Blanston]

This landed today:



Should be good.

Yup, that it should! It is the happy combination of great music and great performance. Can't beat that at a bargain price!   

[kishnevi]

No, I don't have that box (do have the Sony monster). Of Lenny's recordings in the DG box, I have individual CDs with 88, 92, 94 and the Missa in tempore belli (originally on Philips). No Lenny 105 in my collection.




Sarge

Hmmm. 
The box I have is a 4 CD set. 
Your CD of the three symphonies is CD 1.
CD 2 contains 105 and the Mass in temp.bel.
CDs 3 and 4 are devoted to Lenny's recording of Die Schopfung. 

Which leads to the question--when and with what was his recording of 105 issued?  Recording date is a month before the Mass.

I hesitate to recommend the recording of the Creation, btw--audio is a little muffled, and musically it's merely okay.