Haydn's Haus

[Gurn Blanston]

Now that I've safely placed my order,  I can let the rest of you Haydnistos in on this, from Arkvimusic's clearance sale.

$5.99 plus shipping and sales tax (if any)

It's a most diverting box. I predict satisfaction.  



(better picture)

[Gurn Blanston]

Just bought:

Let us have some idea what you think of it when you've given a listen.

[Gurn Blanston]

Nice project, as usual, Gurn.

I recall two additional versions on PI:

Thanks, Gordo. I have found that comparing 10 double disks is time consuming!    But will be back with results and comments soon. I appreciate the recs too. I am quite fond of Boston Baroque in other composers, it will be nice to try them in some Haydn.

[Karl Henning]

Let us have some idea what you think of it when you've given a listen.

The following is A Joke

What can it matter what he thinks? You know what I think!

The preceding was A Joke

[Gurn Blanston]

Anyone else totally enamored with this recording? I also own Solti, Kuijken and Gardiner's Seasons, but Jacobs' grabbed my attention in a way the others could not. I actually enjoyed my first run through of this Seasons more than my first run through of my favorite Creation recording. A new favorite Haydn oratorio emerging?
Two things should have foreshadowed this occurrence, first, Jacobs recording of no.92 with Freiburger is completely satisfying and exciting, capped off with a rocket-boosted finale, I find myself reaching for that 7-minute movement whenever I need an energy boost, better than Red Bull. Second, I bought this Seasons disc along with Jacobs Die Zauberflote, and his interpretation of Mozart's best opera (factual opinion) has floored me, one of the most visual-inducing records I've experienced, you can sense the production, the movements, the sets, etc...altogether divine.
Anyway, this Seasons recording has had a very similar effect on me, very theatrical yet musically detailed. Not to mention some frighteningly superb playing and singing.

I saw you post that, Greg, either in the Listening or Purchases thread the other day and was immediately stricken that I don't have it yet. I haven't started in on mass 'Seasons' collecting, I have Kuijkens and Gardiner, I think. I would like Jacobs and Harnoncourt first off. You're right, Jacobs is very fine in every Classical Era work that I've heard so far. 

[Gurn Blanston]

The following is A Joke

What can it matter what he thinks? You know what I think!

The preceding was A Joke

But I wanted to hear from a non-PI non-Haydnista, Karl.... 0:)

[Gurn Blanston]

I have heard both of these recordings and think they are superb.   

I hope to find out for myself soon enough. That's good to know though.

[Mirror Image]

Let us have some idea what you think of it when you've given a listen.

I'll do my best to formulate some opinions of these performances, Gurn. I'm afraid I don't have much to compare them to. I don't own much Haydn. Now, my Dad, on the other hand, owns a good bit. I remember him playing back some of Dorati's symphony set through the stereo and I instantly wanted copies of every disc.

[Gurn Blanston]

I'll do my best to formulate some opinions of these performances, Gurn. I'm afraid I don't have much to compare them to. I don't own much Haydn. Now, my Dad, on the other hand, owns a good bit. I remember him playing back some of Dorati's symphony set through the stereo and I instantly wanted copies of every disc.

Well, here's what I'm interested in; Bernstein's Paris Symphonies versus Harnoncourt's. I know you got those Harnoncourt ones during the big 'sale'. I'm really curious though, since Dorati is the only MI Paris that I have.

[Mirror Image]

Well, here's what I'm interested in; Bernstein's Paris Symphonies versus Harnoncourt's. I know you got those Harnoncourt ones during the big 'sale'. I'm really curious though, since Dorati is the only MI Paris that I have.

Oh, wait...I have heard Jochum's London Symphonies too! Unfortunately, I don't remember the performances. Yes, I'll do some comparisons between Harnoncourt and Bernstein (once it arrives). That sounds like a neat project.

[Gurn Blanston]

Oh, wait...I have heard Jochum's London Symphonies too! Unfortunately, I don't remember the performances. Yes, I'll do some comparisons between Harnoncourt and Bernstein (once it arrives). That sounds like a neat project.

Cool. You will also be treated to some of the finest music of the Classical Era. It's win::win! 

[Mirror Image]

Cool. You will also be treated to some of the finest music of the Classical Era. It's win::win! 

Haydn is my favorite Classical Era composer. Bar none.

[Gurn Blanston]

Since this will be on page 4 of "What are you listening to?" by morning, here's a double post then;

I've been listening frequently to the first symphonies that Haydn wrote for the Esterházy family lately, #6, 7 & 8 (Le Matin, Le Midi, Le Soir). Since they are by far the most frequently recorded early symphonies (hell, early works at all!), needless to say there are many versions to choose from.

Today, I got this one in the mail;



The Apollo Ensemble is a Dutch chamber orchestra with a real facility for playing Haydn. Probably no coincidence that they number precisely the same as the Esterházy Band. They play these works without a harpsichord continuo. I don't note any sign of a hollowness that needs filling! The members seem to be easily up to the rather more difficult than not solo parts. The overall timbre of the group just seems excellent to me, this may well be the best 6 - 8 that I've heard yet!   

[Papy Oli]

Are there any online sellers (Europe, even US) where this Quatuor Mosaiques boxset can still be found please ? is it completely OOP ? I am struggling to find it anywhere. TIA.

[Gurn Blanston]

Are there any online sellers (Europe, even US) where this Quatuor Mosaiques boxset can still be found please ? is it completely OOP ? I am struggling to find it anywhere. TIA.

Whoa!  I just checked Amazon and it is "currently unavailable" here, too! I suppose it was inevitable, just surprised it happened so quickly. I have seen this box for sale, and recently too, on eBay. Perhaps your local eBay would be worth a search? 

[Opus106]

Are there any online sellers (Europe, even US) where this Quatuor Mosaiques boxset can still be found please ? is it completely OOP ? I am struggling to find it anywhere. TIA.

Me too, for quite some time. Let go off many an opportunity when it was going for $25-30. Surprisingly, the first set of 5 CDs is still available at many online stores.

[Papy Oli]

Thank you both. Nothing on Ebay either 

Will probably go for the individual releases in this case (the 2 x op.64 + op.77). Will skip the Op.76 (dearer) as I have the Kodaly for those (the only Haydn SQ I actually currently have as a matter of fact). Just wanted to change that with the Mosaiques as I was very impressed by them when I saw them at Snape last year. I loved their sound.

[Gurn Blanston]

Part 2
Methodology
When I got down to it, I realized that I really didn't know how to go about comparing such a large work across 10 versions. It gives one a newfound appreciation for people who do this for a living, given that they could be doing the same with music they don't particularly care for rather than what they very much enjoy! Yikes!   

Anyway, what I did was choose a few of the highlight pieces of the work, ones that contained solo, ensemble, choral and orchestral parts, and I listened to each of those in turn (with score in hand, just for the hell of it) and tried to determine which of them made the best impression on me, taking notes as I went along. Even that required intense concentration. Nonetheless, rather than giving a Top 10 ranking, I will eventually simply declare which English and German version I would put in my personal Hall of Fame. As they say, your mileage may vary....  In case the winner is unable to complete its term as THE Creation, the 1st runner-up will fulfill its duties.

The actualities
When listened to back-to-back like this, differences that get lost in the chaos tend to stand out more readily. One thing in particular is recording/sound quality. When you listen to a complete performance you mentally adapt to how it sounds. Whereas when you hear 10 performances of the same aria consecutively, you can't help but notice things like clarity and aural presence to go along with performance. And it can't help but influence your choice, even if you weren't particularly looking for that.

Pieces that I concentrated on;
Overture – 'Representation of Chaos'
Pt 07 - Raphael's Aria Rolling in Foaming Billows
Pt 14 - Chorus & Soli The Heavens are telling
Pt 19 - Trio Most Beautiful appear, the Lord is great
Pt 30 - Duet, Adam & Eve Holde Gattin! Dir zur Seite

In the 'overture', the wonderful introduction, The Representation of Chaos, where Haydn made more of c minor than one would have thought he could, I think that the air of suspense and mystery is presented better by McCreesh than any of the others. And the 'Let there be light' resolution into C major shows one why it was such a startling moment to the first listeners.  Nearly as well done were Spering and Hengelbröck. There again, in both cases the clarity of the recording was especially good, and perhaps that gave them an edge in this instrumental section.

There were some excellent moments in every set; the instrumental section in 'The Heaven's are telling' in Christie's performance, for example, was outstanding. As was the chorus in Gardiner's in that same piece. And the soloists in Gardiner Part 19 Trio, especially the soprano Gabriel (Sylvia McNair) were equally arresting.  And finally, in the final duet by Adam & Eve, Harnoncourt's pair (Röschmann & Gerhaher) were amazingly good.

In summary though, I was pleased to discover that the pair of performances that I ended up with were the same pair that I began with in my own review a year ago. That is, McCreesh and Spering. Hengelbröck, a newcomer to the fold, put up a great fight against Spering, but in the end I couldn't see a solid reason to drop one for the other. And ultimately, that holds true throughout the list (with one exception). If you have any of these now, you are as well off to hold what you have as to make any big tradeoffs. The exception being Hogwood. It is sad that L'Oiseau Lyre finally made one recording in their entire catalog with rather poor SQ, and sadder yet that it is this one, which does have a very nice performance on board. But for an English version (there are only the two of them) it loses out to McCreesh hands down, and that is based primarily on sound. The Gabrieli Consort is a very fine group, but so is the Academy of Ancient Music. But even (especially?) if you're a fan of Hogwood/AAM, give this one a miss and get the McCreesh.

Hope this helps a bit to decide if you are looking to hear this work for the first time. Or if you don't like the version you are listening to now. I wasn't planning on writing out all my results, but if anyone wants to talk about a specific performance, I'd be delighted to do.

[mc ukrneal]

Part 2
Methodology
When I got down to it, I realized that I really didn’t know how to go about comparing such a large work across 10 versions. It gives one a newfound appreciation for people who do this for a living, given that they could be doing the same with music they don’t particularly care for rather than what they very much enjoy! Yikes!   

Anyway, what I did was choose a few of the highlight pieces of the work, ones that contained solo, ensemble, choral and orchestral parts, and I listened to each of those in turn (with score in hand, just for the hell of it) and tried to determine which of them made the best impression on me, taking notes as I went along. Even that required intense concentration. Nonetheless, rather than giving a Top 10 ranking, I will eventually simply declare which English and German version I would put in my personal Hall of Fame. As they say, your mileage may vary….  In case the winner is unable to complete its term as THE Creation, the 1st runner-up will fulfill its duties.

The actualities
When listened to back-to-back like this, differences that get lost in the chaos tend to stand out more readily. One thing in particular is recording/sound quality. When you listen to a complete performance you mentally adapt to how it sounds. Whereas when you hear 10 performances of the same aria consecutively, you can’t help but notice things like clarity and aural presence to go along with performance. And it can’t help but influence your choice, even if you weren’t particularly looking for that.

Pieces that I concentrated on;
Overture – ‘Representation of Chaos’
Pt 07 - Raphael’s Aria Rolling in Foaming Billows
Pt 14 - Chorus & Soli The Heavens are telling
Pt 19 - Trio Most Beautiful appear, the Lord is great
Pt 30 - Duet, Adam & Eve Holde Gattin! Dir zur Seite

In the ‘overture’, the wonderful introduction, The Representation of Chaos, where Haydn made more of c minor than one would have thought he could, I think that the air of suspense and mystery is presented better by McCreesh than any of the others. And the ‘Let there be light’ resolution into C major shows one why it was such a startling moment to the first listeners.  Nearly as well done were Spering and Hengelbröck. There again, in both cases the clarity of the recording was especially good, and perhaps that gave them an edge in this instrumental section.

There were some excellent moments in every set; the instrumental section in ‘The Heaven’s are telling’ in Christie’s performance, for example, was outstanding. As was the chorus in Gardiner’s in that same piece. And the soloists in Gardiner Part 19 Trio, especially the soprano Gabriel (Sylvia McNair) were equally arresting.  And finally, in the final duet by Adam & Eve, Harnoncourt’s pair (Röschmann & Gerhaher) were amazingly good.

In summary though, I was pleased to discover that the pair of performances that I ended up with were the same pair that I began with in my own review a year ago. That is, McCreesh and Spering. Hengelbröck, a newcomer to the fold, put up a great fight against Spering, but in the end I couldn’t see a solid reason to drop one for the other. And ultimately, that holds true throughout the list (with one exception). If you have any of these now, you are as well off to hold what you have as to make any big tradeoffs. The exception being Hogwood. It is sad that L’Oiseau Lyre finally made one recording in their entire catalog with rather poor SQ, and sadder yet that it is this one, which does have a very nice performance on board. But for an English version (there are only the two of them) it loses out to McCreesh hands down, and that is based primarily on sound. The Gabrieli Consort is a very fine group, but so is the Academy of Ancient Music. But even (especially?) if you’re a fan of Hogwood/AAM, give this one a miss and get the McCreesh.

Hope this helps a bit to decide if you are looking to hear this work for the first time. Or if you don’t like the version you are listening to now. I wasn’t planning on writing out all my results, but if anyone wants to talk about a specific performance, I’d be delighted to do.

I'd be interested what you thought the strengths and weaknesses of each set were (or at least the ones that stood out in some way). I know that sometimes reviewers write negative comments that only increase my interest (because I have perhaps different ideas about a piece than they did). I have the McCreesh, so I'm not going anywhere, but it would still be of interest to me to hear what the others do (or don't do) if one day I wanted a different view.

[Conor71]

^^Papy Oli and Opus - I recently read on the amazon forum that Naive are planning to re-release the QM Haydn and Mozart though Im not sure when that might be? - heres a link to the thread were I read it (might be best to wait for these boxes rather than buy the individuals?):


http://www.amazon.com/forum/classical%20music/ref=cm_cd_fp_ef_tft_tp?_encoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx2O5YQ79OVJBUQ&cdThread=Tx2AI0BALVJ3EMM


Edit: After re-reading the thread im not so sure whether they are talking about Mozart's "Haydn" Quartets or the Haydn Quartets themselves - I kind of get the impression that all of the QM will be re-released.