Haydn's Haus

[Opus106]

^^Papy Oli and Opus - I recently read on the amazon forum that Naive are planning to re-release the QM Haydn and Mozart though Im not sure when that might be? - heres a link to the thread were I read it (might be best to wait for these boxes rather than buy the individuals?):


http://www.amazon.com/forum/classical%20music/ref=cm_cd_fp_ef_tft_tp?_encoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx2O5YQ79OVJBUQ&cdThread=Tx2AI0BALVJ3EMM


Edit: After re-reading the thread im not so sure whether they are talking about Mozart's "Haydn" Quartets or the Haydn Quartets themselves - I kind of get the impression that all of the QM will be re-released.

Thanks for the update, Conor. Based on the first message alone, it appears they will re-issue Haydn's as well as Mozart's quartets. In fact last year I began to see copies of Mozart's 'Haydn' set (individual discs) available at the Amazons after a long time.

[Papy Oli]

^^Papy Oli and Opus - I recently read on the amazon forum that Naive are planning to re-release the QM Haydn and Mozart though Im not sure when that might be? - heres a link to the thread were I read it (might be best to wait for these boxes rather than buy the individuals?):


http://www.amazon.com/forum/classical%20music/ref=cm_cd_fp_ef_tft_tp?_encoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx2O5YQ79OVJBUQ&cdThread=Tx2AI0BALVJ3EMM


Edit: After re-reading the thread im not so sure whether they are talking about Mozart's "Haydn" Quartets or the Haydn Quartets themselves - I kind of get the impression that all of the QM will be re-released.

G'day Conor ! thank you for the info 

[Leo K.]

Hope this helps a bit to decide if you are looking to hear this work for the first time. Or if you don't like the version you are listening to now. I wasn't planning on writing out all my results, but if anyone wants to talk about a specific performance, I'd be delighted to do.

Thanks for the rundown Gurn! That is very helpful!

[Octave]

Has anyone purchased Tom Beghin's VIRTUAL HAYDN set (Naxos) in Blu-Ray Audio instead of normal CDs?  I have almost no experience with the Blu-Ray Audio format, though movie sound seems remarkably deeper even just through a middling 2-channel set-up.  I was curious if this particular release was worth the slight extra outlay.  The concept of the set sounds fascinating (unequal temperament on many different period instruments, with digitally reconstructed [?] or synthesized acoustics); but I don't know Beghin's playing at all.

[Gurn Blanston]

I don't know anyone that got the Blu-Ray, but as San says, we had a great discussionof the CD version here. I completely agree, one of my top three purchases of 2011.

[Opus106]

I don't know anyone that got the Blu-Ray...

A certain Mr. Laurson was in possession of it at one point in time, but whether he listened to it or not is another issue.

[jlaurson]

A certain Mr. Laurson was in possession of it at one point in time, but whether he listened to it or not is another issue.

Oh, hello. Yes. It was -- along with Weinberg's "The Passenger" -- the reason I bought a blu-ray drive in the first place.

But you make a valid point about listening. 
I've dabbled.

The question can be answered by yourself: Are you feeding your blu-ray channel into a high-quality speaker multi-channel setup? Then it's unquestionably  worth it. In fact, then it's self-demanding. Otherwise. no reason to bother -- at least I find blu-ray handling more cumbersome than dealing with CDs and SACDs.

[Mandryka]

In the booklet they put emphasis on how the recordings capture the room ambience. I've not listened systematically to the set, and when I have listened I've used spotify, I don't own anything by Beghin. But I'm very curious about this business of ambience, partly because they seem to think it matters. I've learned to trust Beghin, in Haydn and in Beethoven. I've found most everything I've heard or read by him is stimulating.

If someone posts positively about this business of ambience i'd look into the blu ray, though I've no idea how I'd get it from the discs into the hi fi amp and out of the hi fi speakers.

[kishnevi]

In the booklet they put emphasis on how the recordings capture the room ambience. I've not listened systematically to the set, and when I have listened I've used spotify, I don't own anything by Beghin. But I'm very curious about this business of ambience, partly because they seem to think it matters. I've learned to trust Beghin, in Haydn and in Beethoven. I've found most everything I've heard or read by him is stimulating.

If someone posts positively about this business of ambience i'd look into the blu ray, though I've no idea how I'd get it from the discs into the hi fi amp and out of the hi fi speakers.

Part of the problem in discussing the ambience is that it's hard to analyze it in isolation.    Several instruments are used, ranging from harpsichord and clavichord through square piano to grand fortepiano, but (IIRC) no single instrument is played in more than one "virtual room", and no "virtual room" is used for more than one instrument.   So it's hard to say in listening to any individual piece, what should be laid to the account of the instrument and what should be laid to the account of the ambience.   

But the sonics/engineering sound very good even on my cheapest of the cheap CD player, so it's probably the case that the better the audio set up, the better it will sound.

[Gurn Blanston]

Part of the problem in discussing the ambience is that it's hard to analyze it in isolation.    Several instruments are used, ranging from harpsichord and clavichord through square piano to grand fortepiano, but (IIRC) no single instrument is played in more than one "virtual room", and no "virtual room" is used for more than one instrument.   So it's hard to say in listening to any individual piece, what should be laid to the account of the instrument and what should be laid to the account of the ambience.   

But the sonics/engineering sound very good even on my cheapest of the cheap CD player, so it's probably the case that the better the audio set up, the better it will sound.

Which is the advantage of the Blu-Ray; you can change the room ambiance in any piece so no matter what instrument is played you can make the sound match the room you are interested in. WHich is, I would think, why Jens was keen on it enough to get a Blu-Ray to start with. Damn near had ME buyin' one!

[Mandryka]

Exactly, how interesting is it? I want to speak to someone who's spent a bit of time playing around with the virtual rooms. Someone who posts to say"wow, that blew my mind"

It sounds a bit nerdy for me, but you never know.

[Octave]

Thanks, guys, for the discussion of the VIRTUAL HAYDN collection.  I thought my next big Haydn keyboard set would be the Brautigam, but even apart from the gimmicks and medium of the Beghin, I'm tempted by the diverse range [?] of instrumental sounds in the set.  I will rummage for the old discussion of the set; I'm irritated at myself for inept searches...I actually tried to find prior discussion and did come up with much, just a reproduction of a note by Beghin in a Mandryka post.

[kishnevi]

Thanks, guys, for the discussion of the VIRTUAL HAYDN collection.  I thought my next big Haydn keyboard set would be the Brautigam, but even apart from the gimmicks and medium of the Beghin, I'm tempted by the diverse range [?] of instrumental sounds in the set.  I will rummage for the old discussion of the set; I'm irritated at myself for inept searches...I actually tried to find prior discussion and did come up with much, just a reproduction of a note by Beghin in a Mandryka post.

My other set is in fact, Brautigam, and there's enough meat on Brautigam's bones to make that a very good choice.  Also, IIRC, Brautigam included some things not found in Beghin's set, the most important of which is the keyboard arrangement of The Seven Last Words.

There's also Van Oort's set of the non-sonata works on Brilliant.     You will find all three--Brautigam, Beghin, and Van Oort--worth having.

Also (while we're on the PI front) Van Oort's complete Mozart Keyboard set, also on Brilliant.

[Leo K.]

I love the Beghin set. A true labor of love.

A meticulous acoustical 'mapping' of various buildings and spaces, the combining of old with new technology, the hard work facing Beghin in bringing these keyboard compositions to life. It's inherently interesting, even if it gets repetitive. Also intriguing is how difficult some of these pieces are. Watching the performer play, fingers soaring across what is often a smaller set of keys, is amazing. It is completely immersive, providing crystal clear reproduction of both the instruments and the space. There is a wonderful level of ambience present, notes resonating from one speaker across several. The Haydn team of two leading creative engineers, Martha de Francisco (producer) and Wieslaw Woszczyk (engineer), working closely with leading international makers of early keyboard instruments, who made and tended through the project copies of important instruments of Haydn's time. Beghin is an accomplished artist, his touch giving way to flourishes that really emphasize a piece's emotional core. He interprets Haydn expertly, never once giving over to an attempt to modernize or undermine the composer's vision.

We are really meant to see every step of the process - the reimagining and construction of these ancient instruments. Beghin is technically impeccable, totally to be trusted and, beyond that, many of his performances sound more spontaneous than academic, and are both beautiful to hear and viscerally exciting. This is not a set for experts only, and within the 18 hours listening and learning everyone will discover marvelous music which they didn't know. There is a huge divide about pianos for 18th Century music. For many years now in the Haus, we have espoused the fortepianos which have an ever increasing availability and profile at the highest level, most recently in Mozart performances and recordings by Bilson, Sonfronitsky, Bezuidenhout & their ilk, and are beginning to find it harder to enjoy this music on a Steinway. I am not going here into questions of performance, save to say that Tom Beghin is as gifted an interpreter of this corpus of keyboard music as you'd be likely to find anywhere.

BEGHIN the Begin!

[Leo K.]

The 18th century fascinates me to no end (I feel sorry for my wife who has to hear my endless reading about it), and in the spirit of the Beghin set, I'll have to admit I'm nerdy enough to want my own 18th Century room, built into my house!

[Gurn Blanston]

I love the Beghin set. A true labor of love.
snip...Beghin is an accomplished artist, his touch giving way to flourishes that really emphasize a piece's emotional core. He interprets Haydn expertly, never once giving over to an attempt to modernize or undermine the composer's vision... snip... Beghin is technically impeccable, totally to be trusted and, beyond that, many of his performances sound more spontaneous than academic, and are both beautiful to hear and viscerally exciting. This is not a set for experts only, and within the 18 hours listening and learning everyone will discover marvelous music which they didn't know. There is a huge divide about pianos for 18th Century music....

Great post, Leo!  Hopefully it will help Octave make his decision.

On the bolded part there, a few months ago someone posted a column by a professional reviewer and I almost blew a freakin' gasket over his assertion that Beghin was a poor interpreter because he didn't put on all the 19th century artifacts that, for example Brendel, Schiff and Hamelin (IIRC) do, so he missed the opportunity to entertain that fellow because of it. When I got back from hospital I tried to write a well-reasoned rebuttal but couldn't really do it; other than to say, professionals should know better than that!

[Gurn Blanston]

The 18th century fascinates me to no end (I feel sorry for my wife who has to hear my endless reading about it), and in the spirit of the Beghin set, I'll have to admit I'm nerdy enough to want my own 18th Century room, built into my house!

Oh man, me too!   

Sonic Dave;  I see a second career coming your way.....   

[SonicMan46]

Oh man, me too!   

Sonic Dave;  I see a second career coming your way.....   

Hi Leo & Gurn - looks great!  The hardest part on the pic shown would be the curved fluted moldings, the rest of that wall unit is basically bookcase & door building - would take a while though!  Plus, I like the fact the author doesn't shun electricity, e.g. I see a pneumatic nailer & a table saw in several of the bottom images on the book cover - NOW, a real period woodworker (see the analogy) would use hand tools alone, like Roy Underhill on PBS (just watched his show yesterday) - a much more daunting & sweaty job, as well as time consuming!

BUT, alas, I'm not so ambitious (maybe in retirement I can enlarge my scope of projects?) - my last one was made for a former resident of mine, i.e. a CD/DVD/BD wall unit which holds about 500 items - walnut carcass, oak dowels for the shelving, & an oak veneer plywood back - if made only for CDs, I could have had an extra shelf and probably have gotten close to 700 CDs into it!  Dave 


 

[Florestan]

The 18th century fascinates me to no end

+1.

I'll have to admit I'm nerdy enough to want my own 18th Century room, built into my house!

Unfortunately, gentlemen, what we'll never, never again be able to build or recover is --- a great 18th century mindset.  We've been experiencing Beethoven, Liszt, Bruckner, Mahler, Schoenberg and two (!!!) world wars ever since! Our innocence is lost forever... 

Seriously now, I do believe there is a fundamental difference between someone listening to Haydn's symphonies in the 18th century and someone listening to them in the 21st century: the two persons are galaxies apart, sociologically, culturally and spiritually/religiously. There is absolutely no common denominator between Nikolaus Eszterhazy and Gurn Blanston when it comes to experiencing music. 

[Gurn Blanston]

+1.

Unfortunately, gentlemen, what we'll never, never again be able to build or recover is --- a great 18th century mindset.  We've been experiencing Beethoven, Liszt, Bruckner, Mahler, Schoenberg and two (!!!) world wars ever since! Our innocence is lost forever... 

Seriously now, I do believe there is a fundamental difference between someone listening to Haydn's symphonies in the 18th century and someone listening to them in the 21st century: the two persons are galaxies apart, sociologically, culturally and spiritually/religiously. There is absolutely no common denominator between Nikolaus Eszterhazy and Gurn Blanston when it comes to experiencing music. 

Well, I can wish that the common denominator was wealth....

It's true though, what you say. I do have an advantage over you in that I don't listen to post-Classical music any more. I suppose one can't un-ring a bell, but when it comes to listening to later music, I've forgotten most of it now. Pity about Dvorak though...