Haydn's Haus

[TheGSMoeller]

I know I've posted this before, but as much as I watch I just can't go too long without another posting. Here is Bernstein and the VPO performing an encore of Haydn's "Oxford" final movement.


http://www.youtube.com/v/XclKeS0vaiM

[Gurn Blanston]

I know I've posted this before, but as much as I watch I just can't go too long without another posting. Here is Bernstein and the VPO performing an encore of Haydn's "Oxford" final movement.


http://www.youtube.com/v/XclKeS0vaiM

That is SO splendid! Not just the performance (I've already raved about the CD) but the music itself. That is simply the absolute best music composed in 1789, IMO. 

Thanks, Greg,

[Marc]

That is SO splendid! Not just the performance (I've already raved about the CD) but the music itself. That is simply the absolute best music composed in 1789, IMO. 

It's the second best IMO.

1 Mozart, Cosi fan tutte, KV 588
2 Haydn, Symphony no. 92 in G Major "Oxford"
3 Mozart, Clarinet Quintet in A Major, KV 581

Oh, forget it. I'm blabbering. It's Papa's Haus!

[Gurn Blanston]

It's the second best IMO.

1 Mozart, Cosi fan tutte, KV 588
2 Haydn, Symphony no. 92 in G Major "Oxford"
3 Mozart, Clarinet Quintet in A Major, KV 581

Oh, forget it. I'm blabbering. It's Papa's Haus!

Hmm, a worthy challenge! Haydn would have agreed with you, of course (he played 4 hand piano reductions with Mozart in his parlor), but I don't know, I've always considered operas to be more than just a piece of music, many pieces of music. Such a monster by comparison! Guess I wasn't thinking straight! 

[SonicMan46]

That is SO splendid! Not just the performance (I've already raved about the CD) but the music itself. That is simply the absolute best music composed in 1789, IMO. 

Now Gurn - there is SO MUCH wonderful music composed in the 18th century, especially in the classical era - can one really pick a solitary composition for 1789? Just saying - 

And of course the same year (July) that the Bastille was stormed - how to put all of this in perspective?  BTW - I'm at the moment listening to Wofie's Clarinet Quintet (K. 581) composed that year as already mentioned (not bad me thinks) - would love to see a 'complete' list of compositions from that year of all of the composers of the era that show up on this forum - may be we already own most of the best ones?  Dave   

[Marc]

Hmm, a worthy challenge! Haydn would have agreed with you, of course (he played 4 hand piano reductions with Mozart in his parlor) [....]

Hmm, Haydn and Mozart were able to start a fight about it.
"I prefer your latest opera to my symphony, my lad."
"No way, Papa, your symphony is way better! My opera is just a box of funny tunes that yielded some good things."
"No, it isn't."
"Yes, it is."
(Blabber)

Now Gurn - there is SO MUCH wonderful music composed in the 18th century, especially in the classical era - can one really pick a solitary composition for 1789? Just saying - 

Waaaaaaay too rational.

[Gurn Blanston]

Now Gurn - there is SO MUCH wonderful music composed in the 18th century, especially in the classical era - can one really pick a solitary composition for 1789? Just saying - 

And of course the same year (July) that the Bastille was stormed - how to put all of this in perspective?  BTW - I'm at the moment listening to Wofie's Clarinet Quintet (K. 581) composed that year as already mentioned (not bad me thinks) - would love to see a 'complete' list of compositions from that year of all of the composers of the era that show up on this forum - may be we already own most of the best ones?  Dave   

  Well, given that I own the complete works of both Mozart & Haydn, really, where can you go from there? Not up, certainly. So I would say the odds on your last are pretty good! 

Haydn (an quiet year between 2 big years);
Hob 01_092 Symphony #92 in G
Hob 15_13 Trio in c for Piano & Strings
Hob 15_14 Trio in Ab for Piano & Strings
Hob 16_48 Sonata #58 in C for Fortepiano
Hob 17_04 Fantasia in C for Keyboard
Hob 24b_14 Aria for Tenor "Se tu mi sprezzi, ingrata"

Mozart: (K6 then K1 #'s)
570   570   Sonata f/Kybd   --   Bb
571   571   6 German Dances   --   var
571a    A005 Humerous Qrt   Caro mio Druck und Schluck   Eb
572   572   Arrangement of a Handel Oratorio   Messiah   G
573   573   9 Variations f/Kybd   Duport Variationen   D
574   574   Little Gigue f/Kybd   --   G
575   575   Quartet f/St   --   D
576   576   Sonata f/Kybd   --   D
576a   A034/2   Minuet f/Kybd   --   D
576b   355   Minuet f/Kybd   --   D
577   577   Rondo f/S   Al desio, di chi t'adora   F
578   578   Aria f/S   Alma grande e nobil core   Bb
579   579   Aria f/S   Un moto di gioia mi sento   G
580   580   Aria f/S   Schon lacht der holde Frühling   Bb
580a   A094   Adagio f/Winds   --   C
580b   A090   Quintet Mvmt f/Cl, Bthn & St   --   F
581   581   Quintet f/Cl & St   --   A
581a   A088   Quintet-Concerto Mvmt f/Cl   --   A
582   582   Aria f/S   Chi sà, chi sà, qual sia   C
583   583   Aria f/S   Vado, ma dove? - oh Dei!   Eb
584   584   Aria f/B   Rivolgete a lui lo sguardo   D
585   585   12 Minuets   --   var
586   586   12 German Dances   --   var
587   587   Country Dance   Der Sieg vom Helden Coburg   C
587a   A074   Quartet Mvmt f/St   --   g
588   588   Opera buffa in 2 Acts   Così fan Tutte   C  (actually finished in January 1790)


So, some pretty good music for the year!   

[SonicMan46]

  Well, given that I own the complete works of both Mozart & Haydn, really, where can you go from there? Not up, certainly. So I would say the odds on your last are pretty good! 

Haydn (an quiet year between 2 big years);
Hob 01_092 Symphony #92 in G.................

Mozart: (K6 then K1 #'s)
581   581   Quintet f/Cl & St.........................

Hi Gurn - thanks for the listing of Papa's & Wolfie's 1789 recordings; but, I was still curious about who else was composing at that time, so found a listing on Wiki HERE - from that list I mainly selected composers alive at the time & ones that I knew (own one or more CDs of nearly all) - first, there were a LOT of excellent guys putting notes on paper then, however, despite some favorites of mine (such as Luigi B.), it is hard to top Haydn & Mozart (which I knew all along -  ) - Dave

Albrechtsberger, J.(1736-1809)
Bach, JCF (1732-1795)
Beck, Franz (1734-1809)
Benda, Georg (1722-1795)
Boccherini, Luigi (1743-1805)
Cherubini, Luigi (1760-1842)
Clementi, Muzio (1752-1832)
Danzi, Franz (1763-1826)
Devienne, Francois (1759-1803)
Ditters, Carl (1739-1799)
Druschetzky, Georg (1745-1819)
Dussek, Johann (1760-1812)
Eberl, Anton (1765-1807)
Eybler, Joseph (1765-1846)
Fasch, Carl (1736-1800)
Forster, Emanuel (1748-1823)
Fuchs, Georg (1752-1821)
Gossec, F-J (1734-1829)
Gyrowetz, Adalbert (1763-1850)
Haydn, Joseph (1732-1809)
Haydn, Michael (1737-1806)
Herschel, William (1752-1818)
Hoffmeister, Franz (1754-1812)
Hofmann, Leopold (1738-1793)
Kozeluch, Leopold (1747-1818)
Kraus, Joseph Martin (1756-1792)
Krommer, Franz (1759-1831)
Kreutzer, Rodolphe (1766-1831)
Lickl, Johann (1769-1843)
Mozart, WA (1756-1791)
Pichl, Vaclav (1741-1804)
Pleyel, Ignaz (1757-1831)
Reicha, Josef (1752-1795)
Rolla, Alessandro (1757-1841)
Rosetti, Antonio (c.1750-1792)
Salieri, Antonio (1750-1825)
Stamitz, Carl (1745-1801)
Tietz, Anton (1742-1797)
Tomasini, Luigi (1741-1808)
Viotti, Giovanni (1755-1824)
Wranitzky, Anton (1761-1820)
Wranitzky, Paul (1756-1808)

[calyptorhynchus]

I've just discovered a good way of listening to Haydn symphonies where you get a sense of his development without having to listen to all of them (I have listened to all of them through in order a couple of times, but it takes several weeks!)!

Get a list of the symphonies in their real order (ie not the traditional numbering) and select a number between 1 and 10, then, if you've chosen 6, say, then listen to 6, 16, 26 &c, up to 106. This gives you a quick survey of his symphonies, ending with a Paris Symphony and a London symphony or two.

[jlaurson]

I've just discovered a good way of listening to Haydn symphonies where you get a sense of his development without having to listen to all of them (I have listened to all of them through in order a couple of times, but it takes several weeks!)!

Get a list of the symphonies in their real order (ie not the traditional numbering) and select a number between 1 and 10, then, if you've chosen 6, say, then listen to 6, 16, 26 &c, up to 106. This gives you a quick survey of his symphonies, ending with a Paris Symphony and a London symphony or two.

That would work plenty well, even with the tradition numbering, no?

But even so, I've done anyone interested the favor of pairing them up like that, using the chronological numbering to determine the order but giving them here in the still prevalent Hoboken order:


Set1:   1-107--36--13--38--43--54--70--81--89--99
Set2:  37--25--33--23--58--52--60--53--80--90-101
Set3:  18--11---9--22--35--42--56--75--79--91-100
Set4:   2---5-108--21--59--47--57--63--87--92-102
Set5:   4--32--14--24--49--45--68--62--85--95-103
Set6:  27--15--12--30--26--46--67--74--83--96-104
Set7:  10---3--40--31--41--51--69--73--84--93-105
Set8:  20---6--16--39--65--64--66--78--86--94
Set9:  17---7--34--29--48--50--61--77--82--97
Set10: 19---8--72--28--44--55--71--76--88--98

[TheGSMoeller]

I know I've posted this before, but as much as I watch I just can't go too long without another posting. Here is Bernstein and the VPO performing an encore of Haydn's "Oxford" final movement.


http://www.youtube.com/v/XclKeS0vaiM

I can't believe nobody corrected me!! This is what happens when it's late and I've got beer in my belly. It's not 92, it's 88!!

[mc ukrneal]

  Well, given that I own the complete works of both Mozart & Haydn, really, where can you go from there? Not up, certainly. So I would say the odds on your last are pretty good! 

Haydn (an quiet year between 2 big years);
Hob 01_092 Symphony #92 in G
Hob 15_13 Trio in c for Piano & Strings
Hob 15_14 Trio in Ab for Piano & Strings
Hob 16_48 Sonata #58 in C for Fortepiano
Hob 17_04 Fantasia in C for Keyboard
Hob 24b_14 Aria for Tenor "Se tu mi sprezzi, ingrata"

Mozart: (K6 then K1 #'s)
570   570   Sonata f/Kybd   --   Bb
571   571   6 German Dances   --   var
571a    A005 Humerous Qrt   Caro mio Druck und Schluck   Eb
572   572   Arrangement of a Handel Oratorio   Messiah   G
573   573   9 Variations f/Kybd   Duport Variationen   D
574   574   Little Gigue f/Kybd   --   G
575   575   Quartet f/St   --   D
576   576   Sonata f/Kybd   --   D
576a   A034/2   Minuet f/Kybd   --   D
576b   355   Minuet f/Kybd   --   D
577   577   Rondo f/S   Al desio, di chi t'adora   F
578   578   Aria f/S   Alma grande e nobil core   Bb
579   579   Aria f/S   Un moto di gioia mi sento   G
580   580   Aria f/S   Schon lacht der holde Frühling   Bb
580a   A094   Adagio f/Winds   --   C
580b   A090   Quintet Mvmt f/Cl, Bthn & St   --   F
581   581   Quintet f/Cl & St   --   A
581a   A088   Quintet-Concerto Mvmt f/Cl   --   A
582   582   Aria f/S   Chi sà, chi sà, qual sia   C
583   583   Aria f/S   Vado, ma dove? - oh Dei!   Eb
584   584   Aria f/B   Rivolgete a lui lo sguardo   D
585   585   12 Minuets   --   var
586   586   12 German Dances   --   var
587   587   Country Dance   Der Sieg vom Helden Coburg   C
587a   A074   Quartet Mvmt f/St   --   g
588   588   Opera buffa in 2 Acts   Così fan Tutte   C  (actually finished in January 1790)


So, some pretty good music for the year!   

A list from wiki:

Ludwig van Beethoven – Two Preludes through all twelve major keys for piano, Op. 39
William Crotch – The Captivity of Judah (oratorio)
Joseph Haydn – Symphony No. 92 in G, "Oxford"
Leopold Anton Kozeluch – Concerto for Clarinet no 2 in E flat major
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart – Clarinet Quintet in A

Opera
Domenico Cimarosa – I Due Baroni
André Grétry – Raoul Barbe-Bleue
Giovanni Paisiello – Nina
Johann Friedrich Reichardt – Brenno; Claudine von Villa Bella
Antonio Salieri – Il Pastor fido; La Cifra; both with libretto by Lorenzo Da Ponte
Stephen Storace – The Haunted Tower

[Marc]

I can't believe nobody corrected me!! This is what happens when it's late and I've got beer in my belly. It's not 92, it's 88!!

Although I gotta admit I did not even listen to it .... I only wanted to defend the son against the father.

But of course, Haydn connaisseur Gurn B. sould be utterly ashamed of himself.



Here's no. 92 with a delay. Bernstein and the Wiener Phil:

http://www.youtube.com/v/z_oVBR5ch78

[Sergeant Rock]

I can't believe nobody corrected me!! This is what happens when it's late and I've got beer in my belly. It's not 92, it's 88!!

Don't beat yourself up, Greg. It's an easy mistake to make. Afterall, Haydn wrote the same symphony 104 times 

Sarge

[Marc]

Don't beat yourself up, Greg. It's an easy mistake to make. Afterall, Haydn wrote the same symphony 104 times 

Come out and take it, you d**** yellow-bellied r**!

[Mandryka]

I can't believe nobody corrected me!! This is what happens when it's late and I've got beer in my belly. It's not 92, it's 88!!

Very good. Very very good. Very very very good.

I once saw Rattle conduct a large section of Walkure like that in London, but I can't recall ever seeing it happen anywhere else. A friend of mine used to go to  Klemperer concerts  after his accident with the fire , or maybe  it was a stroke, and he said he conducted whole concerts like that, sitting down.

[Gurn Blanston]

Although I gotta admit I did not even listen to it .... I only wanted to defend the son against the father.

But of course, Haydn connaisseur Gurn B. sould be utterly ashamed of himself.



Here's no. 92 with a delay. Bernstein and the Wiener Phil:

http://www.youtube.com/v/z_oVBR5ch78

  I didn't listen to it either. In fact, I was listening to the year 1788 at the time and figured to work up to it. I guess I shouldn't have assumed....

[Mandryka]

There's also the impact of piano reductions and chamber arrangements which were sold with an eye on those people who might not get the chance to ever hear an orchestra play Haydn but had heard of his music and were curious as to what it sounded like.  Plus, in middle and upper class households,  the presence of at least one young lady able to play the harp or a keyboard instrument was almost taken for granted, and gentlemen with at least some facility on a musical instrument were usually not far away.

I didn't know that were piano reductions of Haydn symphonies?  Who made them?

[Gurn Blanston]

I didn't know that were piano reductions of Haydn symphonies?  Who made them?

Haydn officially did the "Laudon" symphony (Hob 69 in C) but intentionally left off the Finale, saying that it wouldn't work on a piano anyway. I don't know any others that he did himself, although everyone and their brother did piano reductions back them, most of them uncredited (hired by the publisher, so to say).

[Gurn Blanston]

Speaking of books, I just received this one:

[asin]0226768147[/asin]

I bought a "like new" hard cover from a AMP seller, and which is exactly as described for ~ $45.  I am looking forward to reading it since the subject of keyboards used during Haydn's lifetime is of interest to me.  This book may also touch on the topic of keyboard reductions of orchestral works during this period.

Ah, nice acquisition! Let us know what you think. Especially of interest to me is whether it is intelligible to a non-professional, or if I will have to hire Karl to come down and read it to me.