Haydn's Haus

[mc ukrneal]

Are the forces for #91 thicker than for #30 "Halleluja"?

How thick they are depends on which piece is played before intermission and just how many brews they had!   I suspect the same was true in Haydn's time (and perhaps even more so - did they have intermissions in those days? or perhaps they drank before the performance?)...Have I stumbled upon the real meaning of HIP? Hungover in performance?!?! 

[Karl Henning]

Part of my point with this fundamental reminder is:

1. In the genre of the concerto, it is not a simplistic matter of either "joining together" or "contending."  Both elements are on display in examples of the genre from the outset.  It is, after all, a Baroque genre, and the Baroque also saw the birth of the dramatic genre of opera.

2. While it is generally an error to "write off" dramatic opposition as a principle within the concerto as the Heroic Style generally associated with Beethoven, note Wolf's reference to Beethoven w/r/t the K. 503.

3. This thread is Haydn's place, and here's to it. It is worth reflecting that developing a sympathy with the environment and proper practice of Haydn's music should not be misapplied as a Procrustean bed, more broadly.

What about the Trumpet Concerto? I should happily concede that the organ concerti (e.g.) are more Conversation than Contest. But there is, I maintain, inarguable drama (as well as elegance) in the T.C.

[Karl Henning]

Oh, man . . . and I was sure that Bill's new thread stood for Nation of Haydn-Lovers!

[Gurn Blanston]

Are the forces for #91 thicker than for #30 "Halleluja"?

#30    Flute, 2 Oboes, 2 Horns & Strings
#91    Flute, 2 Oboes, 2 Bassoons, 2 Horns & Strings

by which he means 2 bassoons with written parts, not just playing off the cello's part in the continuo section which there probably was one doing in the earlier work. My guess is that there were more 'strings' in the 'strings', for example viola (possibly even divided violas by 1788) and more on a part. Otherwise, not a lot of changes in the Esterházy Band in 23 years. 

[Gurn Blanston]

Gurn, I'm continually impressed with your Haydn project, it is such a help! Thanks again 

Thanks, Leo. A help is all I was hoping for. Ease the frustration of trying to find out some info and suddenly people have time to just enjoy the music.

[Gurn Blanston]

What about the Trumpet Concerto? I should happily concede that the organ concerti (e.g.) are more Conversation than Contest. But there is, I maintain, inarguable drama (as well as elegance) in the T.C.

The trumpet concerto and the first cello concerto (with the second along by default) are the only ones of Haydn's concertos that are accepted into the Pantheon of Unarguably Great Music.  Now, if they are the only ones who deserve to be there, that is arguable.   Since I consider the Sinfonia Concertante to be a concerto, I would certainly add it too, since along with Mozart's for Violin & Viola it is the top of the genre.

[Bogey]

Symphony No. 6 (27)

How is the first movement an "adagio"?  Loved the featured winds, especially the horn appearance.

Second movement felt like a violin concerto....a lovely one that is.

The third movement brought back the winds....never too much winds!  It was my favorite of the four due to the almost Edvard Grieg-like "In the Hall of the Mountain King" moments.  At least that is what I connected it with.

[Gurn Blanston]

Symphony No. 6 (27)

How is the first movement an "adagio"?  Loved the featured winds, especially the horn appearance.

Second movement felt like a violin concerto....a lovely one that is.

The third movement brought back the winds....never too much winds!  It was my favorite of the four due to the almost Edvard Grieg-like "In the Hall of the Mountain King" moments.  At least that is what I connected it with.

This symphony features a great rarity from that time period; an introduction to the first movement. The Adagio opening is generally interpreted to be that period just at sunrise and then as the sun rises, the movement moves into Allegro.  If you saw it listed in a symphony of a later period it would be "1st movement: Adagio - Allegro".

A really lovely work, one of my favorites! 

[Bogey]

This symphony features a great rarity from that time period; an introduction to the first movement. The Adagio opening is generally interpreted to be that period just at sunrise and then as the sun rises, the movement moves into Allegro.  If you saw it listed in a symphony of a later period it would be "1st movement: Adagio - Allegro".

A really lovely work, one of my favorites! 

It was special....but many movements in the first five as well.  Let me give that start a repeat along with the third movement.

[Bogey]

Got it. Thanks!

When you can, pull out a 6 and get to about the 1:50 mark of the 3rd.  This is absolutely wonderful and my Grieg take.

[TheGSMoeller]

Got it. Thanks!

When you can, pull out a 6 and get to about the 1:50 mark of the 3rd.  This is absolutely wonderful and my Grieg take.

Are you referring to the trio with the bassoon? If so, it's wonderful. Haydn is at his best in Symphonies when he has solos written throughout. For example 98's finale, the oboe in the opening and solo violin halfway through are both extremely smile-inducing.     (sorry, jumped the gun to 98 only because I began to listen to it, a London favorite of mine)

[Bogey]

Are you referring to the trio with the bassoon? If so, it's wonderful. Haydn is at his best in Symphonies when he has solos written throughout. For example 98's finale, the oboe in the opening and solo violin halfway through are both extremely smile-inducing.     (sorry, jumped the gun to 98 only because I began to listen to it, a London favorite of mine)

Now get off this board, Greg and get to the tv for Downton!

[TheGSMoeller]

Now get off this board, Greg and get to the tv for Downton!

I bought the 3rd Season blue ray over a month ago, I'm all caught up so I can spend more time in the Haus!   

[Gurn Blanston]

Are you referring to the trio with the bassoon? If so, it's wonderful. Haydn is at his best in Symphonies when he has solos written throughout. For example 98's finale, the oboe in the opening and solo violin halfway through are both extremely smile-inducing.     (sorry, jumped the gun to 98 only because I began to listen to it, a London favorite of mine)

Agreed. It was already verging on old-fashioned to use your soloists like a concertino in a symphony, but he did it so damned well that it became acceptable again, at least for the Esterházy Band. Like you guys, I like it! 

[Florestan]

http://www.youtube.com/v/fI8sFARtcTY

Symphony No. 1 in D major Hob I: 1(1)

Adam Fischer & The Austro-Hungarian Haydn Orchestra

First listening ever. Boy, this must be one of the best firsts out there. 1st movement: big, bold, grand --- like young Joseph crying out loud: Hey, you counts and dukes and princes, this poor wheelwright offspring here is gonna grab you all by the neck! 2nd movement: serene, peaceful, genial --- Hey, don't panic too much! I'm good-humored by nature and I'll treat your necks gently! 3rd movement: fun, humorous, almost tongue-in-cheek --- Stay tuned for more, Your Highnesses! You'll have the fun of your life!

Do we know what the reaction of Count Morzin was when hearing it, Gurn?

[Bogey]

Just spent the morning in the car with symphonies 4 (2) and 5 (4).

Symphony 4:

I like the "outburst" like feel of the first movement.  This paired with the silent periods (3:06 and 4:57) followed by a charge of music was the highlight.  My only problem with this composition was that the finale was a menuetto.  Made it feel like the last chapter of a who-dunnit mystery was missing.  Was this purposeful?  Was it lost?  Was it ripped up by  a patron or Haydn himself?  Pappa needs a decent conspiracy theory like Mozart (death of) and Beethoven (Immortal Beloved), so I say we start here!

Symphony 5

What was striking here is the opening movement with an adagio.  Kind of cool, but took a second to fall into it.  In fact, the second movement almost seemed like it would work better ahead of the first.  Sommeone number the compositions incorrectly? 

In short, if anyone points out that Haydn's early symphonies all sound the same, they are greatly mistaken.  The first five show this clearly.

Hey Gurn (and others in the know), any audience reactions to these earlier symphonies exist?

I asked the same question a bit earlier....aren't you just curious?

[Florestan]

Symphony No. 6 in D major "Le Matin" Hob I:6



I might be guilty of Romanticizing it but I truly see this as a kind of Wanderer. Not the gloomy and resigned Schubert's one, but a happy, hopeful and genial one, waking up in the morning and walking through forests, climbing up hills and passing through small yet lively villages. Here listening to the birds chirping, there watching a procession of badgers; now joining a peasant dance, then having a pint of beer at the inn under linden and chestnut trees, finally going again on the road, wherever it might lead --- and at all times with an open heart and a soul filled with awe for the world's beauty. It strongly reminded me a paragraph in Hermann Hesse's novel Knulp where he extolls the freedom of a vagrant life.

[Florestan]

I asked the same question a bit earlier....aren't you just curious?

Sorry I missed it. 

[Bogey]

Sorry I missed it. 

Are you doing a run through all the symphonies as well?

What are your thoughts (or what do you relate to) on the third movement of the 6th?

[Florestan]

Are you doing a run through all the symphonies as well?

I plan to, yes, though not in chronological order.

What are your thoughts (or what do you relate to) on the third movement of the 6th?

The Wanderer (embodied by the flute) arrives at a village just in time for joining a peasant merriment and is invited to take part in the dance, which he does willingly, but he is too quick in his movements, so a half-drunk old man (the bassoon) gives him a lesson in how to correctly dance. "You do have a point, sir!" concedes the Wanderer, "but i"ll stick to my rush; you see, there's a whole world out there waiting for me."