Haydn's Haus

[George]

The Hadelich is first class, and the lire organizzata CD is also excellent.  Kliegel has too much competition to be termed firstclass, but considered in isolation she gives a fine performance.  The others vary on a piece by piece basis;  I remember being least impressed by the keyboard concertos, and most impressed by the trumpet concerto.

Thanks again!

[Gurn Blanston]

Just roundin' up strays. I think that Haydn questions are far more likely to be seen and replied to if they are all in one place.

[George]

Just roundin' up strays. I think that Haydn questions are far more likely to be seen and replied to if they are all in one place.

Thanks, Papa!

[Karl Henning]

It's a big Haus.

[Gurn Blanston]

Just wanted to say (without at all contesting your observation here, O Gurn, which is sound) how seldom one reads the phrase The trombone was reserved.

Yes, I see your point there Karl. Almost oxymoronic, in retrospect.   

I was able to make an interesting inference while reading last night vis-a-vis trombones. If you will note in the scoring given for many Concerted Masses, on the list you will frequently find trombones in parentheses. I never knew exactly what it meant, I actually thought it might mean 'optional'. But I discover now that it means that the trombones play, but they don't have a written part. They play the voice line of the lower 3 voices to strengthen it. So one of these lovely consorts of sackbuts is like a baritone, tenor and alto in the choir. Nice to have a mystery solved.

[Gurn Blanston]

Thanks, Papa!

No problem. This thread was so far down I missed it at the big roundup a few months ago.

I wish I had some input for you on your OP, George, but I don't have that box, nor any of its contents. Jeffrey is invaluable that way; he has it all!

[Karl Henning]

Yes, I see your point there Karl. Almost oxymoronic, in retrospect.   

I was able to make an interesting inference while reading last night vis-a-vis trombones. If you will note in the scoring given for many Concerted Masses, on the list you will frequently find trombones in parentheses. I never knew exactly what it meant, I actually thought it might mean 'optional'. But I discover now that it means that the trombones play, but they don't have a written part. They play the voice line of the lower 3 voices to strengthen it. So one of these lovely consorts of sackbuts is like a baritone, tenor and alto in the choir. Nice to have a mystery solved.

Curiously, I did that as an aid to the choir for the inaugural performance of the Canticles for my Evening Service in D.  Chances are, I may have gotten the idea from recollection of historic practice . . . .

[Gurn Blanston]

Curiously, I did that as an aid to the choir for the inaugural performance of the Canticles for my Evening Service in D.  Chances are, I may have gotten the idea from recollection of historic practice . . . .

Something you will have learned in school then, albeit en passant?

There are a good number of conventions like that in extramusical notation, such as [Allegro] meaning 'allegro isn't written here, but it's allegro from the context and that's how we're playing it'. That's a lot to say for a small pair of square brackets, eh?  Problem is, they aren't explained outside of school, and so it might well take a while for the inference to obtrude.   

[Karl Henning]

I certainly did absorb a great deal, and much of it of musical use.

[Gurn Blanston]

I certainly did absorb a great deal, and much of it of musical use.

Clearly so. I, OTOH, read a book once... 0:)

[Karl Henning]

Clearly so. I, OTOH, read a book once... 0:)

But you still recall which book.

Don't you? 

[kishnevi]

No problem. This thread was so far down I missed it at the big roundup a few months ago.

I wish I had some input for you on your OP, George, but I don't have that box, nor any of its contents. Jeffrey is invaluable that way; he has it all!

Jeffrey has a good deal less than you impute to him. 

About the trombones--I've got a recording of Handel's Resurrezione in which the trombone is used to re-inforce the Devil's vocal line.  The usage was apparently a well known convention by the first decades of the 18th century.

[Gurn Blanston]

Jeffrey has a good deal less than you impute to him. 

About the trombones--I've got a recording of Handel's Resurrezione in which the trombone is used to re-inforce the Devil's vocal line.  The usage was apparently a well known convention by the first decades of the 18th century.

That is an oratorio?  A sacred oratorio would have been one of the few places that you would hear a trombone outside of mass. Naxos gathered all the secular trombone works they could find a few years back and put them all on one CD!  I really do like classical trombone music though, the rarities like Beethoven's Three Equali for 4 Trombones, for example.

[George]

No problem. This thread was so far down I missed it at the big roundup a few months ago.

I wish I had some input for you on your OP, George, but I don't have that box, nor any of its contents. Jeffrey is invaluable that way; he has it all!

No worries, Gurn, I have listened to 4 of the 6 CDs and have really enjoyed them. Great sound too!

[kishnevi]

That is an oratorio?  A sacred oratorio would have been one of the few places that you would hear a trombone outside of mass. Naxos gathered all the secular trombone works they could find a few years back and put them all on one CD!  I really do like classical trombone music though, the rarities like Beethoven's Three Equali for 4 Trombones, for example.

Having found the recording,  I discovered I was not correctly remembering what the liner notes said.   Marco Vitale, who conducted the recording, and wrote the liner notes, records three possible solutions to the use of a trombone in the original performances, although there's no trombone part in the score.
1) The mention of a trombone in the payroll is actually for a bassoon.
2) The trombone doubled the recitatives of Lucifer. 
Vitale rejects those two proposals and puts forward his own,which he used in the recording
3) The trombone was part of the continuo group, and used when the trumpets were playing their parts.  It was thus the bass part of a Baroque brass section, doubling the bass line.

The recording is Handel: La Resurrezione   Contrasto Armonico and soloists,  Marco Vitale cond.   Brilliant Classics catalogue no. 93805

[Geo Dude]

I'm looking to buy my first copy of "The Creation".  Recommendations on a German, PI recording would be greatly appreciated.

[Gurn Blanston]

I'm looking to buy my first copy of "The Creation".  Recommendations on a German, PI recording would be greatly appreciated.

I have every PI version available, and I feel safe to say that this one is as good as any and better than many. The fact that it is readily available and doesn't require taking out a 2nd mortgage shouldn't deter you from considering it  ;

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Great playing, superb singing. 

[Gurn Blanston]

I sometimes get the feeling from reading this forum that the harder it is to find a recording; the better it becomes.   

Yes, I was lulled into that idea many years ago, and when I realized that it was just another form of snobbery, I've been fighting it ever since. This is an excellent example to prove the rule. Not that ALL disks that are cheap and available are the tops, just that all of them aren't the shits, either.

[Geo Dude]

A Naxos recording being top of the heap?  Come now.

Seriously, though, I was torn between Jacobs, Weil 1 & Weil 2.  On the one hand I've heard great things about the Jacobs, on the other hand the Weil (1) is roughly half the price and also supposed to be great...yet it is included in the Vivarte box which means I'd be doubling when I eventually grabbed that...and while Weil's new Creation (and London Symphonies and Seven Last Words and The Seasons...) recording certainly looks interesting it's relatively untested, at least as far as I know, and will run roughly the same as the Jacobs.  This may well provide an alternative that solves all of the confusion.  For now.

[Gurn Blanston]

After sampling the SWR recordings of a few of the symphonies I am now listening to the Gryphon Trio recordings of the keyboard trios.  Yes, they are a MI group - but these are what I consider very good performances.

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I like the Gryphon's, I have their Mozart set and it is quite enjoyable. My only reservation about PI trios in general is that the keyboard tends to dominate too much.