Haydn's Haus

[TheGSMoeller]

Well, I have been listening to Haydn....

After all this time, and in the interest of completeness, I finally bought Pinnock's 'Times of Day' symphonies. AFAIK, they were the last PI set I was lacking. Got them yesterday, hope to listen to them tonight. Somewhere or other I read a couple of negative reviews of them and just became a sort of holdout. Anyone else have these?

No, also read negative reviews on Pinnock's 6-8, pushed it aside for the recent purchase of Kuijken and Apollo Ensemble, which I have no regrets over, two fantastic discs.

I was wonderfully endulging in Edding Quartet's recording of Op. 77 and 103 today, Haydn still has a strong summer presence on my end.   

[Gurn Blanston]

No, also read negative reviews on Pinnock's 6-8, pushed it aside for the recent purchase of Kuijken and Apollo Ensemble, which I have no regrets over, two fantastic discs.

I was wonderfully indulging in Edding Quartet's recording of Op. 77 and 103 today, Haydn still has a strong summer presence on my end.   

Yes all three of those disks are super. The Apollo I found on a whim, but the Kuijken I went looking for (and glad I did! Thanks to those who rec'd it).  As for the Edding, I wonder that it hasn't brought them more attention. It really is a fine rendition. OK, you get a free pass.

[Florestan]

Where are all the Haydnistos gone? Maybe Haydn is just a wintertime composer?   

New blog post today:

http://haydnseek.typepad.com/my-blog/

It's nice to have the time and space to go into a bit more depth than I did here.

Splendid work, Gurn! Thank you.

It has been postulated that Haydn had nationalistic reasons for claiming that Bach was his inspiration rather than the Italian Sammartini, however, it is my considered opinion that nationalism was far from Haydn's mind in this case.

Actually, nationalism such as we know it today was virtually unknown at that time. The officialdom, the diplomacy, the cultural life and the army of a country were full of foreigners; we see Italians in the service of Austria, Frenchmen in the service of Holland, Prussians in the service of Russia and Germans in the service of Denmark and all sort of viceversa. The absolute champion of cosmopolitanism was indisputably the Austrian-led Holy Roman Empire.

German musicians didn't like Haydn's music, and Germany was no friend of Austria despite the common language. They were, in fact rather the opposite. Italy, such as it was at the time, was a part of the same Holy Roman Empire that Austria and Hungary were.

If I may split the hair, there was no Germany nor Italy at the time. There were a multitude of German states which were all, except Prussia, part of the Holy Roman Empire (dissolved in 1806 and succeeded by the Austrian Empire; as an aside, the Austro-Hungarian Empire was created in 1867 and any mention of it prior to that year is an anachronism). Italian territory was split between Austrian dominions, the Papal States, the Republic of Venice, the Kingdom of Naples-Two Sicilies and various (grand) duchies the most famous of which were Tuscany and Parma (immortalized by Stendhal in The Charterhouse of Parma).

[Sergeant Rock]

Splendid work, Gurn! Thank you.

....the army of a country were full of foreigners; we see Italians in the service of Austria, Frenchmen in the service of Holland, Prussians in the service of Russia and Germans in the service of Denmark and all sort of viceversa.

Hessians in the service of Britain.

Sarge

[Gurn Blanston]

Splendid work, Gurn! Thank you.

And thank YOU,

Actually, nationalism such as we know it today was virtually unknown at that time. The officialdom, the diplomacy, the cultural life and the army of a country were full of foreigners; we see Italians in the service of Austria, Frenchmen in the service of Holland, Prussians in the service of Russia and Germans in the service of Denmark and all sort of viceversa. The absolute champion of cosmopolitanism was indisputably the Austrian-led Holy Roman Empire.

If I may split the hair, there was no Germany nor Italy at the time. There were a multitude of German states which were all, except Prussia, part of the Holy Roman Empire (dissolved in 1806 and succeeded by the Austrian Empire; as an aside, the Austro-Hungarian Empire was created in 1867 and any mention of it prior to that year is an anachronism). Italian territory was split between Austrian dominions, the Papal States, the Republic of Venice, the Kingdom of Naples-Two Sicilies and various (grand) duchies the most famous of which were Tuscany and Parma (immortalized by Stendhal in The Charterhouse of Parma).

Yes, precisely so. There were no such countries as Italy and Germany, although there were plenty of Italians and Germans! In the context of writing popularly, it can be difficult without creating a cascade of parenthetical phrases to convey to non-specialists a series of concepts that are foreign (sorry about that ) to them. So when I say "Germany" I mean Prussia, and when I say "Italy", I mean the collection of city-states that existed independently on the Italian peninsula. It's just so much easier.

My thoughts on the "nationalistic" idea is that the original of that was written during the post 1848 wave of German Nationalism that convulsed the country. The very idea that Haydn would have renounced Sammartini and embraced CPE Bach for any reason other than one 'German' embracing another wouldn't have been acceptable at that point. As we all know, political correctness doesn't make it so.

Thanks!

[Florestan]

Hessians in the service of Britain.

Sarge

The most famous of them being The Headless Horseman, no doubt. 

[Florestan]

My thoughts on the "nationalistic" idea is that the original of that was written during the post 1848 wave of German Nationalism that convulsed the country.

In this respect I remember a line from Daniel Kehlmann's Measuring The World. In the context of the Napoleonic wars, Eugen, the son of the famous German mathematician Carl Friedrich Gauss and an ardent nationalist, enthusiastically ejaculates in front of his father: The country's full of excitement, father! To which Gauss replies: Rather full of idiots!. 

[Gurn Blanston]

In this respect I remember a line from Daniel Kehlmann's Measuring The World. In the context of the Napoleonic wars, Eugen, the son of the famous German mathematician Carl Friedrich Gauss and an ardent nationalist, enthusiastically ejaculates in front of his father: The country's full of excitement, father! To which Gauss replies: Rather full of idiots!. 

  I love that. Although, I must say that my enthusiastic ejaculations have never taken place in front of my father.   I could go on, but damned if I will.

[Florestan]

  I love that. Although, I must say that my enthusiastic ejaculations have never taken place in front of my father.   I could go on, but damned if I will.

Well, in Romanian to ejaculate has only the meaning you'd not go on over, not the other one! 

[Opus106]

  I love that. Although, I must say that my enthusiastic ejaculations have never taken place in front of my father.   I could go on, but damned if I will.

Those were different times... and it reminds of this. [Someone said they liked taking threads off topic, didn't they? ]

https://www.youtube.com/v/x5JEJiiSZCM

[Gurn Blanston]

Well, in Romanian to ejaculate has only the meaning you'd not go on over, not the other one! 

"Life would be dismembered if words had one meaning only!", Gurn ejaculated violently! 

[Gurn Blanston]

Those were different times... and it reminds of this. [Someone said they liked taking threads off topic, didn't they? ]

https://www.youtube.com/v/x5JEJiiSZCM

Well, that was brilliant. Especially since I just finished re-reading 'The Complete Sherlock Holmes' earlier this week, so I got all the references without a 25 year interval of lag time. Haydn would have pounded the table! (staying OT).

[Karl Henning]

. . . I just finished re-reading 'The Complete Sherlock Holmes' earlier this week . . . .

How long did it take you? Or, rather, what time interval between your starting, and concluding?

[Gurn Blanston]

How long did it take you? Or, rather, what time interval between your starting, and concluding?

2 months, but I only read while eating lunch. I leave my Kindle in the car. I listen to Haydn while reading, I must add.... 0:)

[Karl Henning]

I'm impressed that you got it done with such dispatch!

[Gurn Blanston]

I'm impressed that you got it done with such dispatch!

Och, she's nowt but ~1600 or so (hard to tell on a Kindle). I enjoyed them even more this go'round than I did when I discovered them in my second year of high school.

[Karl Henning]

You've been having a tug at the Glenmorangie, hain't you?

[Gurn Blanston]

You've been having a tug at the Glenmorangie, hain't you?

Ah, the peaty smell of Speyside wafting into the sharp, chill air; what, ME?

"Here, Joey, ha ya a whuskey and then play me some more o'that Robbie Burns..."   

[Leo K.]

I've been listening to the Brilliant set of Haydn, going through the Baryton works now. Man, it's like discovering a new moon orbiting around an already rich planet of diversity and color! Haydn's Baryton output is vast, like his symphonies or quartets. So much to explore

[jlaurson]

Those were different times... and it reminds of this. [Someone said they liked taking threads off topic, didn't they? ]

https://www.youtube.com/v/x5JEJiiSZCM

Huh. Unrelated to this thread, I've just watched that episode today.