Haydn's Haus

[San Antone]

Mark posted well before you registered on this forum.  I came up with some possibilities:

(a) you used to post here under a different handle
(b) you know Mark from real life or a different forum
(c) you read ALOT of older posts on the forum

If it is (a) would you please share with us your previous handle.

A combination of all three, but I've forgotten under what named I was registered when Mark was here; it was a while ago.  I left for a few years and then re-joined under this name.

[Mandryka]

Who do you consider "wild enough"?

For me I prefer a more middle-ground approach in the quartets. Not that there isn't room for something on the more mellow side, like the warm and comfy Kodály.

There is of course something to be said for the energetic approach, too. For that I like the Ysayë quartet. Another quartet I'm considering is the Medici:




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Well, just thinking of some of the music that the JC recorded,  I much prefer Tatrai in op 20/5, and Pro Arte in op 77/1. I don't know the Ysayë or Medici in  Haydn. The most energetic and wild I've heard is The Casals Quartet, sample before you buy, you may loathe what they do to the music. Having said that, when Pro Arte are in the zone they get a hyper-intense too.

[Karl Henning]

I am sure it was particularly for wildness that the Prince had engaged Haydn.

[jlaurson]

J. Haydn
String Quartets op.33/1, 3, 5 (v.6)
Leipzig String Quartet
m|DG
German link - UK link

Don't recall ever hearing such a lively opening movement of op.33/3. It's like birds having a party.

[Karl Henning]

I want to hear it. We have birds. And the birds know how to party . . . .

[Sergeant Rock]

Pro Arte in op 77/1[...]when Pro Arte are in the zone they get a hyper-intense too.

The last thing I want in a performance of 77/1 is hyper-intensity. I'm looking for civilized discourse not a gang bang 

Sarge

[Karl Henning]

The last thing I want in a performance of 77/1 is hyper-intensity. I'm looking for civilized discourse not a gang bang 

Sarge

So, more Enchanted April, and not so much Nightmare on Elm Street 2 . . . ?

[Dancing Divertimentian]

J. Haydn
String Quartets op.33/1, 3, 5 (v.6)
Leipzig String Quartet
m|DG
German link - UK link

Don't recall ever hearing such a lively opening movement of op.33/3. It's like birds having a party.

That ought to be good. I have the Leipzigers' op 50 disc. Wonderful stuff.

[jlaurson]

The last thing I want in a performance of 77/1 is hyper-intensity. I'm looking for civilized discourse not a gang bang 

Sarge

If you've never spit-roasted a Haydn Menuet, you don't know what you're missing!

[Gurn Blanston]

I am sure it was particularly for wildness that the Prince had engaged Haydn.

I don't think it turned him off, conceptually. The use of the modifier 'particularly' makes you the winner though.

[Gurn Blanston]

The last thing I want in a performance of 77/1 is hyper-intensity. I'm looking for civilized discourse not a gang bang 

Sarge

Yeah, that piece doesn't benefit from applied rowdiness. Some do though. As long as they don't turn out like Rococo bon-bon's we should find a space within the latitude for everyone.

[Mandryka]

Yeah, that piece doesn't benefit from applied rowdiness. Some do though. As long as they don't turn out like Rococo bon-bon's we should find a space within the latitude for everyone.

Well I think you and sarge should listen to Pro Arte, if you haven't.

There is something a bit jazzy about Pro Arte at the best.  Hot Club de Paris.

[Sergeant Rock]

Well I think you and sarge should listen to Pro Arte, if you haven't.

Since you first mentioned the Pro Arte many moons ago, I've periodically sampled their performances (Amazon clips). What I heard both repelled me and delighted me. I have not heard even a small bit of their op.77/1 though. What makes me hesitate hitting the buy button on the Testament box, i.e., taking a 49 Euro gamble, is the fact that you and I have such radically different taste in Haydn's quartets. I have several versions of op.77/1 that I think ideal in their ways, and several performed in a manner that tests my prejudices. Do I really need the Pro Arte too?

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

Yeah, that piece doesn't benefit from applied rowdiness. Some do though.

Of course. One size doesn't fit all 

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

I'll bet you can live without their Op. 77.

I think so too. I have these quartets in op.77/1:

MOSAIQUES
KODALY
THE LINDSAYS
AMADEUS
AURYN
L'ARCHIBUDELLI
JERUSALEM
SCHUPPANZIGH

That covers a lot of ground.

Sarge

[Mandryka]

Since you first mentioned the Pro Arte many moons ago, I've periodically sampled their performances (Amazon clips). What I heard both repelled me and delighted me. I have not heard even a small bit of their op.77/1 though. What makes me hesitate hitting the buy button on the Testament box, i.e., taking a 49 Euro gamble, is the fact that you and I have such radically different taste in Haydn's quartets. I have several versions of op.77/1 that I think ideal in their ways, and several performed in a manner that tests my prejudices. Do I really need the Pro Arte too?

Sarge

I think you need to be careful sarge. They were very variable, and often pretty dull. Why can't you sample through spotify? Two I like are op 77/1 and op  64/6. The sound is fine -- you just have to use your imagination, you can hear well enough what they were doing.

I do think that you need to hear those two at least, whether we have different tastes or not. They're important in 20th century reception history. And those performances have not been bettered -- they reveal things you can do with the music.

I don't own the Testament -- too expensive. Nearly all of them are on spotify and that suits me.


Anyway how can you resist Haydn Hot Club style?

[Mandryka]

I think so too. I have these quartets in op.77/1:

MOSAIQUES
KODALY
THE LINDSAYS
AMADEUS
AURYN
L'ARCHIBUDELLI
JERUSALEM
SCHUPPANZIGH

That covers a lot of ground.

Sarge

I did a big survey of the op 77s last year. In addition to Pro Arte, I felt that Ulbrich,  Tatrai and Amati were really outstanding in op 77/1.

Op 77/2 is harder -- but that's for another discussion maybe

[DavidW]

My favorite Op 77 is the Auryn Quartet.

[Mandryka]

Well, we disagree.  What really bothers me about their playing is the portimento.  As far as being bettered, good, better, best is not how I gauge recordings, but I can name three off the top of my head of ones I like better than QPA: Mosaiques, Schuppanzigh and Jerusalem.

After reading your posts for a while my overall impression is that you almost always prefer historical recordings and regularly claim them to be the best.   But, almost without fail the playing sounds dated and anti-stylistic for the period to my ears.

But, as in all matter of taste, to each his own.

I don't know about historic recordings, I certainly wouldn't always go for historic performances of the trios, and rarely (maybe never) for the keyboard sonatas.

The big formative influences on my taste in Haydn were Van Beinum, Deszo Ranki and Harnoncourt. No quartets, except maybe the very early recordings made by the first lineup of the Juilliards. I've found it much harder to find a quartet ensemble with a vision of what the music can be which I like, despite spending a lot of time searching.

[Gurn Blanston]

I don't know about historic recordings, I certainly wouldn't always go for historic performances of the trios, and rarely (maybe never) for the keyboard sonatas.

The big formative influences on my taste in Haydn were Van Beinum, Deszo Ranki and Harnoncourt. No quartets, except maybe the very early recordings made by the first lineup of the Juilliards. I've found it much harder to find a quartet ensemble with a vision of what the music can be which I like, despite spending a lot of time searching.

I'm not sure there ARE 'historic' performances of the trios, so you're in luck there. The BAT was a landmark in being the first ever complete set, and really, it isn't so modern, I think it was begun in the 1970's when scores became available.

The 1970's is old to me, BTW.

The performance style of that era is what turns me off, in addition to sucky sound. I like modern performances by people who appreciate Haydn as much as I do.

Op 77#1 is well represented, I will add on to this when I get home, but the Alea Quartet, QM, Schuppanzigh, Salomon, and a half dozen others.

Goes without saying that the symphonies are in the same boat for me.