Haydn's Haus

[Bogey]

Found this interesting page;

http://www.classicalnotes.net/classics4/haydnquartets.html

Toward the later part of the article, they discuss the history of recordings of Haydn's quartets. 

[Bogey]

And this for #100

http://www.classicalnotes.net/classics3/military.html

At least to judge from lists of early recordings, by the twentieth century affection for the Haydn symphonies had shifted from the "Military" to the "Surprise" (# 94), which boasted several sets of acoustic 78s, including the first Haydn on record in 1913 (by Eduard Künneke and the Odeon-Streichorchester), while a few of the others had only a smattering of releases. The Military had to await 1933 for its first complete recording by the Berlin Symphony Orchestra led by Hans Knappertsbusch,Hans Knappertsbusch conducts the Berlin Symphony Orchestra in the Haydn Military Symphony (Preiser CD cover) who had waxed the Surprise in 1929 with the Berlin State Opera Orchestra (and would record it twice more in 1941 and 1950 with the Berlin Philharmonic). (Two earlier ventures had been cut (by excising the opening adagio and trimming the allegretto) to fit each movement onto a single 12-inch 78 rpm side – a 1916 set by the Victor Concert Orchestra in extremely clear detail for the time, and a 1926 Vox set by an unnamed orchestra led by Erich Kleiber. Both are spirited yet graceful, with the Kleiber account, having the advantage of the new electrical recording technology, more full-bodied, with stronger dynamics and an especially pensive trio.) In contrast to his rather staid and unsurprising Surprises, as well as his straightforward Mozart recordings of similar vintage, Knappertsbush's Military is a fascinating document, marked by a creative and deeply personal interpretive touch – each movement is distended by a mammoth tempo shift at its mid-point, with varying impact. The first, following an extremely swift introduction and rather normal exposition nearly grinds to a halt for the far slower development, as if to signal with a change of pace the importance of Haydn's enlargement of that section's role within sonata form. (To further offset the development, Knappertsbusch inserts a long pause before the recapitulation, which then accelerates wildly to the coda.) Half-way through the allegretto, Knappertsbusch drops the tempo, as if to illustrate the dual nature of the Turkish music's evocation of war – both celebratory and then somber. Given a choice, Knappertsbush seems to favor the latter, as the treble portions of his Turkish music can barely be heard, and added pauses between phrases of the trumpet fanfare and slashing downbeats in the following measures all portend doubt and despair. That feeling is extended in the menuetto, whose spirited dance is brought to a standstill each of the three times the opening section is heard before picking up again. (An added curious touch – Knappertsbusch adds a repeat of the first section not in the score, perhaps in part to justify release on eight 78 rpm sides, rather than the six typically used for the work.) And to complete the scheme, Knappertsbusch literally halves the tempo at the mid-point of the finale. Whether viewed nowadays as daring and meaningful or merely quirky and frustrating, this remains not only the first, but the most quixotic, personal and stylistically challenging (and perhaps perplexing) Military on record (now on a Preiser CD).

[Gurn Blanston]

And this for #100

http://www.classicalnotes.net/classics3/military.html

At least to judge from lists of early recordings, by the twentieth century affection for the Haydn symphonies had shifted from the "Military" to the "Surprise" (# 94), which boasted several sets of acoustic 78s, including the first Haydn on record in 1913 (by Eduard Künneke and the Odeon-Streichorchester), while a few of the others had only a smattering of releases. The Military had to await 1933 for its first complete recording by the Berlin Symphony Orchestra led by Hans Knappertsbusch,Hans Knappertsbusch conducts the Berlin Symphony Orchestra in the Haydn Military Symphony (Preiser CD cover) who had waxed the Surprise in 1929 with the Berlin State Opera Orchestra (and would record it twice more in 1941 and 1950 with the Berlin Philharmonic). (Two earlier ventures had been cut (by excising the opening adagio and trimming the allegretto) to fit each movement onto a single 12-inch 78 rpm side – a 1916 set by the Victor Concert Orchestra in extremely clear detail for the time, and a 1926 Vox set by an unnamed orchestra led by Erich Kleiber. Both are spirited yet graceful, with the Kleiber account, having the advantage of the new electrical recording technology, more full-bodied, with stronger dynamics and an especially pensive trio.) In contrast to his rather staid and unsurprising Surprises, as well as his straightforward Mozart recordings of similar vintage, Knappertsbush's Military is a fascinating document, marked by a creative and deeply personal interpretive touch – each movement is distended by a mammoth tempo shift at its mid-point, with varying impact. The first, following an extremely swift introduction and rather normal exposition nearly grinds to a halt for the far slower development, as if to signal with a change of pace the importance of Haydn's enlargement of that section's role within sonata form. (To further offset the development, Knappertsbusch inserts a long pause before the recapitulation, which then accelerates wildly to the coda.) Half-way through the allegretto, Knappertsbusch drops the tempo, as if to illustrate the dual nature of the Turkish music's evocation of war – both celebratory and then somber. Given a choice, Knappertsbush seems to favor the latter, as the treble portions of his Turkish music can barely be heard, and added pauses between phrases of the trumpet fanfare and slashing downbeats in the following measures all portend doubt and despair. That feeling is extended in the menuetto, whose spirited dance is brought to a standstill each of the three times the opening section is heard before picking up again. (An added curious touch – Knappertsbusch adds a repeat of the first section not in the score, perhaps in part to justify release on eight 78 rpm sides, rather than the six typically used for the work.) And to complete the scheme, Knappertsbusch literally halves the tempo at the mid-point of the finale. Whether viewed nowadays as daring and meaningful or merely quirky and frustrating, this remains not only the first, but the most quixotic, personal and stylistically challenging (and perhaps perplexing) Military on record (now on a Preiser CD).

Fascinating, Bill. Of course, it is nothing that modern tastes would tolerate, but as an historical view it is really quite interesting. As it turns out, I have read that before, it is the thing I mentioned earlier today as wanting to find you a link to, but it was a while ago and you know how my memory is.   

[Bogey]

 Hope you do not mind me littering your thread with lp issues and recording history banter, but I find these topics fascinating because of their infrequency. 

I can see a sincere Klemperer going to his boss and saying, "How about a Haydn cycle!?" 

Boss: Aren't there over 100?  That's a good one Klemp!  You are kidding, right?

Klemp: Sure, just kidding.  *Slumps off*

[Gurn Blanston]

Hope you do not mind me littering your thread with lp issues and recording history banter, but I find these topics fascinating because of their infrequency. 

I can see a sincere Klemperer going to his boss and saying, "How about a Haydn cycle!?" 

Boss: Aren't there over 100?  That's a good one Klemp!  You are kidding, right?

Klemp: Sure, just kidding.  *Slumps off*

Nope, I'm delighted. I know there are people here who know a lot about this topic, I invite them to join the conversation. I have very little to contribute, unfortunately. For me, the Haydn Revolution started with Solomons in ~1978.

[Mandryka]

Thanks.  Did Märzendorfer complete the cycle?

He didn't record alternative versions/alternative instrumentation, or individual movements, or symphonies which are only disputably Haydn.

[Mandryka]

Yup.  Also led me to the Hermann Scherchen on another page from the 1950's.

I think many Scherchen recordings were part of an attempt by The Haydn Society to produce a complete cycle conducted by different people. Apart from Scherchen, Jonathan Sternberg was involved in the project.

Another early attept at a complete cycle was Max Goberman's.

[Daverz]

I think many Scherchen recordings were part of an attempt by The Haydn Society to produce a complete cycle conducted by different people. Apart from Scherchen, Jonathan Sternberg was involved in the project.

Another early attept at a complete cycle was Max Goberman's.

I saw this on qobuz.com:



Beulah has done some pretty good transfers, but I don't know if they had access to the master tapes for this one.

[kishnevi]

Haydn lps available on Ebay: 6,334
Beethoven: 18,912
Mozart: 17,567

Not an exact science and one that does not take into account repeats, but I see a ton  of Lud and Wolfie in record stacks and only a handful of Haydn.

Perhaps it merely reflects the possibility that people are more inclined to hold on to Haydn than to Beethoven or Mozart.

[Sergeant Rock]

And to be released March 25:

[asin]B003TUG3UO[/asin]

About damn time...that box was released three years ago in Europe! And speaking of Haydn and Cleveland: next season Welser-Möst is conducting Symphonies 39 & 40; and Bernard Labadie is doing an all Haydn concert, including Overture to L'isola disabitata, the Double Horn Concerto, the D major Piano Concerto (played by Hamelin) and Symphony 101. That would be worth an intercontinental flight 

Sarge

[Gurn Blanston]

About damn time...that box was released three years ago in Europe! And speaking of Haydn and Cleveland: next season Welser-Möst is conducting Symphonies 39 & 40; and Bernard Labadie is doing an all Haydn concert, including Overture to L'isola disabitata, the Double Horn Concerto, the D major Piano Concerto (played by Hamelin) and Symphony 101. That would be worth an intercontinental flight 

Sarge

I'd take an intercontinental flight to hear the lost 2 horn concerto... just sayin'    I wonder if that is actually one by Michael Haydn. I can't remember if I've heard that one or not.   

[Sergeant Rock]

I'd take an intercontinental flight to hear the lost 2 horn concerto... just sayin'    I wonder if that is actually one by Michael Haydn. I can't remember if I've heard that one or not.   

The schedule that was released didn't specify but I assume it's the Concerto for Two Horns in E flat, Hob. VIId/6. There's some doubt about it's authenticity, I believe? In any case, I don't think I've heard it either.

Sarge

[Gurn Blanston]

The schedule that was released didn't specify but I assume it's the Concerto for Two Horns in E flat, Hob. VIId/6. There's some doubt about it's authenticity, I believe? In any case, I don't think I've heard it either.

Sarge

I'll have to look up the specifics when I get home. Whatever I read abut it called it lost, so I never delved off into it. I read somewhere (maybe an advert) about a recording, that is probably the 'dubious' one you are talking about. Check this space later for more details.

[Sergeant Rock]

I'll have to look up the specifics when I get home. Whatever I read abut it called it lost, so I never delved off into it. I read somewhere (maybe an advert) about a recording, that is probably the 'dubious' one you are talking about. Check this space later for more details.

Wiki says the lost double horn concerto is Hob.VIId/2 with the possibility that Hob.VIId/6 is that lost concerto. Or maybe it's by someone else.

Don't you love Haydn scholarship? 

Sarge

[Gurn Blanston]

Wiki says the lost double horn concerto is Hob.VIId/2 with the possibility that Hob.VIId/6 is that lost concerto. Or maybe it's by someone else.

Don't you love Haydn scholarship? 

Sarge

Yeah, it slays me. It's one thing for me to have virtually every book in English on Haydn, it's something else to plow through them and find non-conflicting information. It's like they were each writing about someone different.      

[Karl Henning]

About damn time...that box was released three years ago in Europe!

I bought it at a brick-&-mortar shop in Boston, and you know that was a while ago 

[Sergeant Rock]

Knappertsbush's Military is a fascinating document, marked by a creative and deeply personal interpretive touch...this remains not only the first, but the most quixotic, personal and stylistically challenging (and perhaps perplexing) Military on record (now on a Preiser CD).

Thanks for posting that, Bill. I definitely need to hear this. Amazon DE has the CD in stock...and it's available as a d/l too.

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

I bought it at a brick-&-mortar shop in Boston, and you know that was a while ago 

So it sold out and is now being re-released? If so, that's great news.

Sarge

[Bogey]

Thanks for posting that, Bill. I definitely need to hear this. Amazon DE has the CD in stock...and it's available as a d/l too.

Sarge

I ordered a copy yesterday.  Will let you folks know.

[Gurn Blanston]

Wiki says the lost double horn concerto is Hob.VIId/2 with the possibility that Hob.VIId/6 is that lost concerto. Or maybe it's by someone else.

Don't you love Haydn scholarship? 

Sarge

OK, Sarge, I did a cursory search (that has a special meaning in Haydn research, it means I cursed a lot ), and I found these two, just in New Grove. I'll find some commentary to go with them I'm sure:


Hob.                 Work               KEY       Instruments          Year              Edition                   Comment
VIId:2   Concerto a 2 corni,    Eb        unk.                  –?1784                                         lost
—           Concerto for 2 horns, Eb    2 ob, 2 hn, str              ?         (Amsterdam, 1966)   

Comment for #2:  orig. without   author's name;  'par Michael Heiden' added later


Somewhere I saw a disk which had this second work on it. Note it doesn't have a Hoboken number, which seems to say it was found after Hoboken was done with that section (1958, I think). It would be the one I was thinking was attrib. to Michael, but even that seems in doubt, just reading the comment on it. Feder is really harsh about that sort of thing, but that is probably a good thing. If it is a good concerto and you forced me to pick a composer, the first thing I would say is Rosetti. Back in 1966 he was not neartly so well known, so he wouldn't have been one to attrib. it to.

I'll see what else I can turn up.