Haydn's Haus

[mc ukrneal]

May I ask for a recommendation for Haydn string quartets recordings? I have a set of Haydn string quartets by Buchberger Quartet contained in Brilliant Classics Haydn Edition. As you know, it is not a complete set, and I am looking for recordings of the missing quartets. Since I liked Buchberger's recordings very much for its clear and vivid playing, I have no problem with purchasing their individual CDs (and I will eventually do so), I would like to check other quartets (especially HIP that I don't have) for this opprtunity.
Are there good HIP/period quartets who recorded Op. 50 (at least Nos 4-6) and Op. 54 (at least Nos 1-3)?
I have Quatuor Mosaiques's Op. 76, and like it a lot, but I believe they have not recorded Op. 50 or Op. 54.
By reading this thread, Quatuor Festetics seems good, but their recordings are difficult to obtain.
I don't see Salomon Quartet so much here (sorry if I missed), and there is almost no review at Amazon. Is Salomon's Op. 50 & 54 good?
Is this still true regarding Op. 50 & 54?

Over the past three years, I have been on a bit of a journey with the Quartets. I acquired:
Angeles box set (very good and a great choice if you want them all)
Op 9: London Haydn Quartet (Hyperion)
Op 17: Auryn Quartet
Op 20/33: Mosaiques
Op 50: Tetrai
Op 54/74: Endellion
Op 64: Festetics
Op 71: Kodaly (On Naxos)
Op 76: Takacs
Op. 77: Lindsays
A disc of Jerusalem Quartet (selected choices, volume 2)

My own conclusion is that the Angeles are just consistently good and I would not be disappointed if that was all I had. That said, the Endellion was my first purchase and it still sounds really good (they were recommended above). I also like the Takacs, Lindsays, and London Haydn Quartets very much (roughly in that order, though first two are really neck and neck). The others are not bad, but I have not taken to them as much, particularly the Mosaiques and Festetics, who are popular here. The one disappointment was the Jerusalem Quartet. They were very popular here, and maybe I expected too much as a result, but I did not think them anything special (though they are played just fine).

Like you, the reason I purchased so many different quartets was that I wanted to hear for myself the different groups, and though it cost me more, I am so glad that I did.

[Mandryka]

I can only offer my opinions, with which many disagree. As DavidW says, Festetics Op 50 is currently available, which simplifies things very much. Salomon is still the only alternative PI recording. It may well be that London Haydn Quartet will release their Op 50 this year, it is the next one in the series which they appear to be recording chronologically.

As for the ones available, my personal preference is the Salomon's. You will likely have to be content with a used pair of disks unless you are aware of some source for new ones. On the other hand, used Op 50 were possibly the most available of the entire set, so that is good. I saw one on eBay just last week (disk 2). In my opinion, Op 50 is the weakest of the Festetics efforts. However, their Op 54/55 is very good, and if you can run across a set you would likely be pleased with it. You can find all of the Festetics boxes if you are persistent. Things change over time, and probably when I wrote that originally they were very scarce, but lately there have been quite a few available.

If the Buchberger's are your current reference point, I think you will find almost any their version to be rather on the slow side, since they are the fastest I've heard in virtually every quartet.

You are correct about Mosaiques. They have done only these: 20, 33, 51, 64, 76, 77 & 103 (which they rightly call Op 77 #3). Chances are slim they will ever do the remaining ones, sad to say.

Cheers,

Say a bit more about what you're looking for from Op 50 if you can, and why you were disappointed with Festetics.

[Gurn Blanston]

Say a bit more about what you're looking for from Op 50 if you can, and why you were disappointed with Festetics.

Without going back and listening again after a couple of years, my main recollection is that they seemed to drag in places where they should have been forging ahead. Ideally I am always looking for a crisp, clean sound and never dragging. In many spots the sound seemed muddy to me. This is not the norm for them, or for gut strings in general. If you would compare Op 50 to their recording of Op 64, you would think it was a different band. 

[DavidW]

I feel the same as MC (but have not heard the Jerusalem Q nor the London Haydn).  Nice recordings there.  I like the Griller Quartet in Op 74, there that finishes your list.

[torut]

Over the past three years, I have been on a bit of a journey with the Quartets. I acquired:
Angeles box set (very good and a great choice if you want them all)
Op 9: London Haydn Quartet (Hyperion)
Op 17: Auryn Quartet
Op 20/33: Mosaiques
Op 50: Tetrai
Op 54/74: Endellion
Op 64: Festetics
Op 71: Kodaly (On Naxos)
Op 76: Takacs
Op. 77: Lindsays
A disc of Jerusalem Quartet (selected choices, volume 2)

My own conclusion is that the Angeles are just consistently good and I would not be disappointed if that was all I had. That said, the Endellion was my first purchase and it still sounds really good (they were recommended above). I also like the Takacs, Lindsays, and London Haydn Quartets very much (roughly in that order, though first two are really neck and neck). The others are not bad, but I have not taken to them as much, particularly the Mosaiques and Festetics, who are popular here. The one disappointment was the Jerusalem Quartet. They were very popular here, and maybe I expected too much as a result, but I did not think them anything special (though they are played just fine).

Like you, the reason I purchased so many different quartets was that I wanted to hear for myself the different groups, and though it cost me more, I am so glad that I did.

I once thought of purchasing Angeles box set, but Haydn Edition was so tempting, and Buchberger was receiving good reviews, I decided to take it. I am very happy with it. (I have not heard any Angeles, so there is no comparison.) Haydn Edition is very satisfying overall. (By the way, I think the box was called 'Vol. 1.' Do you know whether Vol. 2 will be released, and if so, when?)
For a long time, Kodaly's Op. 76 Naxos disc (purchased around early 90's) had been the only Haydn SQ CD I had, and I didn't pay much attention to it. Recently I heard Mosaiques and L'Archibudelli which were very refreshing, listened to Kodaly disc again and found Haydn's SQs so good, then I have come to want to hear all of them.

[mc ukrneal]

I once thought of purchasing Angeles box set, but Haydn Edition was so tempting, and Buchberger was receiving good reviews, I decided to take it. I am very happy with it. (I have not heard any Angeles, so there is no comparison.) Haydn Edition is very satisfying overall. (By the way, I think the box was called 'Vol. 1.' Do you know whether Vol. 2 will be released, and if so, when?)
For a long time, Kodaly's Op. 76 Naxos disc (purchased around early 90's) had been the only Haydn SQ CD I had, and I didn't pay much attention to it. Recently I heard Mosaiques and L'Archibudelli which were very refreshing, listened to Kodaly disc again and found Haydn's SQs so good, then I have come to want to hear all of them.

By Haydn Edition, are you referring to the 150 cd Brilliant box? I don't think there was a second volume of that. Maybe someone else knows for sure.

[Gurn Blanston]

By Haydn Edition, are you referring to the 150 cd Brilliant box? I don't think there was a second volume of that. Maybe someone else knows for sure.

There certainly isn't, there probably won't be. They included too many of the primo ingredients in the first box, there is not enough recordings or music left to appeal to the market for a second one. Well, there's ME of course, but I'm only buying one copy of this one. 0:)

[torut]

Yes, the Brilliant Classics 150-CD set is not a complete set. I read somewhere that the total discs of a complete Haydn set would be 230~240. Therefore, if Vol. 2 exists, it will be 80~90 CD set. The missing works in the current set are not only some of SQs and baryton trios but also string trios, more songs, Masses, etc., I believe. I think the second set was in Brilliant Classics's original plan, but I cannot find the source. Maybe just rumor?

[Gurn Blanston]

Yes, the Brilliant Classics 150-CD set is not a complete set. I read somewhere that the total discs of a complete Haydn set would be 230~240. Therefore, if Vol. 2 exists, it will be 80~90 CD set. The missing works in the current set are not only some of SQs and baryton trios but also string trios, more songs, Masses, etc., I believe. I think the second set was in Brilliant Classics original plan, but I cannot find the source. Maybe just rumor?

I was told by a friend in France that when HE bought the box, early after its release, it had a big sticker on it that said "Volume 1". I have not heard this from anyone else, it suggests that there was a plan, and it was abandoned early on.

There won't be more baryton trios, all 126 of them are on there. However, it lacks the disk which was sold in the Complete Baryton Works box as 'Disk 18', containing various duos for baryton and cello and several other items, many of which are simply the incipits of lost works right from the Entwurf Katalog. And as you say, there are 2 or 3 disks of string quartets, the string trios, many, many divertimentos and the notturnos and scherzandos, and not to forget several of the operas, all of the insertion arias, and innumerable lesser pieces. I suppose you could put as many as 70 disks together there, depends how well you lay them out. They should hire me to do it for them, I would be delighted.   At the very least they should have offered a small box of 4 or 5 disks which would have filled out the SQs and Baryton works, if nothing else. I bought the baryton box separately just for that purpose.

[torut]

I was told by a friend in France that when HE bought the box, early after its release, it had a big sticker on it that said "Volume 1". I have not heard this from anyone else, it suggests that there was a plan, and it was abandoned early on.

There won't be more baryton trios, all 126 of them are on there. However, it lacks the disk which was sold in the Complete Baryton Works box as 'Disk 18', containing various duos for baryton and cello and several other items, many of which are simply the incipits of lost works right from the Entwurf Katalog. And as you say, there are 2 or 3 disks of string quartets, the string trios, many, many divertimentos and the notturnos and scherzandos, and not to forget several of the operas, all of the insertion arias, and innumerable lesser pieces. I suppose you could put as many as 70 disks together there, depends how well you lay them out. They should hire me to do it for them, I would be delighted.   At the very least they should have offered a small box of 4 or 5 disks which would have filled out the SQs and Baryton works, if nothing else. I bought the baryton box separately just for that purpose.

You purchased both the 150-CD set and the complete baryton set. Regarding SQs, luckily I can buy separated discs, although there still be duplication because they are 2-CD set. (I need to buy not only Op. 50 No. 4-6 but also No. 1-3, for example.)
Maybe, if they reserved some popular works for Vol. 2, there might have been more chance that it would be eventually released...

[Gurn Blanston]

You purchased both the 150-CD set and the complete baryton set. Regarding SQs, luckily I can buy separated discs, although there still be duplication because they are 2-CD set. (I need to buy not only Op. 50 No. 4-6 but also No. 1-3, for example.)
Maybe, if they reserved some popular works for Vol. 2, there might have been more chance that it would be eventually released...

Yes, that is exactly the point I was trying (poorly) to make earlier. When you put all the symphonies, piano sonatas, string quartets, piano trios AND the only existing recording of all the baryton trios, you don't leave a lot of space to attract future customers. Especially when Naxos has a superb set of masses, for example, for which I paid only a few dollars. So even the people who like the rarer works can easily be satisfied elsewhere. The only real challenge is the operas, since even buying the Decca set of Dorati still leaves gaps. BIS did an outstanding job with the Huss disks. If you are really looking to expand your Haydn interest, I can do no better service to you than to encourage you to spend a few dollars more and get the BIS series with Huss/Haydn Sinfonietta, and if you are further interested, they also are the publishers of Brautigam's complete keyboard box set. Perhaps I will publish a list on my blog of the complete works of Haydn all on period instruments. I am proof it can (almost) be done!   

[torut]

Sorry for missing it.

Perhaps I will publish a list on my blog of the complete works of Haydn all on period instruments. I am proof it can (almost) be done!   

I am very interested in it! Sometimes it was difficult to know, for example, if a string quartet group is of modern style using modern instruments, pure period style/instruments, HIP using modern instruments, etc. even if I checked its web site.

[mc ukrneal]

Yes, that is exactly the point I was trying (poorly) to make earlier. When you put all the symphonies, piano sonatas, string quartets, piano trios AND the only existing recording of all the baryton trios, you don't leave a lot of space to attract future customers. Especially when Naxos has a superb set of masses, for example, for which I paid only a few dollars. So even the people who like the rarer works can easily be satisfied elsewhere. The only real challenge is the operas, since even buying the Decca set of Dorati still leaves gaps. BIS did an outstanding job with the Huss disks. If you are really looking to expand your Haydn interest, I can do no better service to you than to encourage you to spend a few dollars more and get the BIS series with Huss/Haydn Sinfonietta, and if you are further interested, they also are the publishers of Brautigam's complete keyboard box set. Perhaps I will publish a list on my blog of the complete works of Haydn all on period instruments. I am proof it can (almost) be done!   

I can second the Huss. Very good stuff. Same with the Naxos masses too. And the Dorati operas. Shoot, it looks like I'm a groupie!

[Gurn Blanston]

Sorry for missing it.I am very interested in it! Sometimes it was difficult to know, for example, if a string quartet group is of modern style using modern instruments, pure period style/instruments, HIP using modern instruments, etc. even if I checked its web site.

You are certainly correct about that! I suspect that, like me, you have wasted a fair amount of time on Goggle trying to find this information. I wonder if it is obscure because parties in both camps would be trying to lure in buyers without telling them the whole truth. It's silly, whatever the reason for being intentionally oblique.

I can second the Huss. Very good stuff. Same with the Naxos masses too. And the Dorati operas. Shoot, it looks like I'm a groupie!

Well, we're both Haydn groupies, no doubt.

[HIPster]

Well, we're both Haydn groupies, no doubt.

Add me to the list please!   

Inspired by this thread, specifically a few pages back, I just purchased this recording:
[asin]B000027EOM[/asin]

Very much looking forward to arriving from the marketplace seller!  Lindberg is one of my favorite lute players and the Drottningholm Baroque Ensemble is very fine in my experience with them (aside - their Vivaldi lute recording with Lindberg and Monica Hugget is outstanding).

The price for the disc was certainly right, coming in under $5 US shipped. . .

[Sergeant Rock]

The one disappointment was the Jerusalem Quartet.

Ha! Our consistency is something to behold, Neal, and unwavering    Of course the Jerusalem is my favorite quartet in Haydn. Wish they'd do them all.

Sarge

[mc ukrneal]

Ha! Our consistency is something to behold, Neal, and unwavering    Of course the Jerusalem is my favorite quartet in Haydn. Wish they'd do them all.

Sarge

And despite that, I keep buying the stuff!!

[torut]

I purchased FLAC of SQ Op. 50 No. 4-6 by Salomon Quartet. The playing is nice and decent. (My first impression.) I like it, thank you.

BIS did an outstanding job with the Huss disks. If you are really looking to expand your Haydn interest, I can do no better service to you than to encourage you to spend a few dollars more and get the BIS series with Huss/Haydn Sinfonietta, and if you are further interested, they also are the publishers of Brautigam's complete keyboard box set.

Huss/Haydn Sinfornietta discs seem good, but firstly, I am interested in the string trios. Are the following two the only available discs? According to this post, there would be total 8 discs? (By the way, a search of "string trio" hit only few posts in this thread. Not so much interest? )

[asin]B000CAKZJO[/asin] [asin]B000M2DJTA[/asin]

Perhaps I will publish a list on my blog of the complete works of Haydn all on period instruments. I am proof it can (almost) be done!   

If you already have it, could you show the list of discs of string trios on period instruments?

[Gurn Blanston]

I purchased FLAC of SQ Op. 50 No. 4-6 by Salomon Quartet. The playing is nice and decent. (My first impression.) I like it, thank you.

Huss/Haydn Sinfornietta discs seem good, but firstly, I am interested in the string trios. Are the following two the only available discs? According to this post, there would be total 8 discs? (By the way, a search of "string trio" hit only few posts in this thread. Not so much interest? )

[asin]B000CAKZJO[/asin] [asin]B000M2DJTA[/asin]
If you already have it, could you show the list of discs of string trios on period instruments?

Good, I'm glad you liked that. I don't quite understand why those Salomon disks were kept so quietly. Perhaps they are too 'authentic' in style for many? That is another Haydn cycle which finishes 90% and then quits with the end in sight.

Well, you have listed the entire PI series of trio recordings. There are no more. The only other trio recordings are on modern instruments, and they are the Vienna Philharmonic Trio.



All 6 have the same cover picture, so no point posting them all! In any case, this is a wonderful set, even the sharper sound of the metal strings isn't off-putting. They are rare and difficult to find, but for the last year or so there was a big importation from Japan, and other than the writing on the packaging being in Kanji, they are identical. I was fortunate to e able to pick up Vol 5 & 6 this way. I got mine at Archiv music, and they might still have some. I haven't shopped for them since then.

And that, my friend, is it. 8 disks, 2 PI and 6 MI. At least it is possible for us to have all of them, something which couldn't be said before 2008! 

[torut]

Good, I'm glad you liked that. I don't quite understand why those Salomon disks were kept so quietly. Perhaps they are too 'authentic' in style for many? That is another Haydn cycle which finishes 90% and then quits with the end in sight.

I didn't know that they quitted recording Haydn SQs. I have an old book about ancient music & period instruments that lists the recordings of Haydn SQs by groups of period instruments, as of 1995. Salomon was the only group that recorded Op. 50 & Op. 54 at that time. Since then, for about 20 years, Festetics is the only quartet of period instruments that recorded them.

Well, you have listed the entire PI series of trio recordings. There are no more. The only other trio recordings are on modern instruments, and they are the Vienna Philharmonic Trio.



All 6 have the same cover picture, so no point posting them all! In any case, this is a wonderful set, even the sharper sound of the metal strings isn't off-putting. They are rare and difficult to find, but for the last year or so there was a big importation from Japan, and other than the writing on the packaging being in Kanji, they are identical. I was fortunate to e able to pick up Vol 5 & 6 this way. I got mine at Archiv music, and they might still have some. I haven't shopped for them since then.

And that, my friend, is it. 8 disks, 2 PI and 6 MI. At least it is possible for us to have all of them, something which couldn't be said before 2008! 

Thank you for the information. I understood the situation. I will try some of the discs. (Without Brilliant Classics's help, it is expensive to gather unpopular work... )