Haydn's Haus

[Gurn Blanston]

Okay, a possible name for 38 is "The Incompetent 2nd Violinist" because they play in the "wrong" place in the 2nd movement many times. It reminds me of that part towards the end of the first movement of Shostakovich's 9th symphony, where the trombone keeps coming in at the "wrong" time, and then they finally get it right.

Or, it could also be called "The Show-off Oboist".

Well, the oboe idea is the one which we have received from our ancestors. Isn't that some great writing there? Haydn was blessed to get Vittorino Colombazzo, one of the top oboists of the day, hired on for a short time. Speculation is this symphony was already under construction about the time Colombazzo arrived, and so the initial plan got scrapped and from the trio of the minuet onward, the symphony became an oboe concerto! I like it!

[EigenUser]

Well, the oboe idea is the one which we have received from our ancestors. Isn't that some great writing there? Haydn was blessed to get Vittorino Colombazzo, one of the top oboists of the day, hired on for a short time. Speculation is this symphony was already under construction about the time Colombazzo arrived, and so the initial plan got scrapped and from the trio of the minuet onward, the symphony became an oboe concerto! I like it!

Yes, during the third and fourth movements I was thinking that it was almost like an oboe concerto. One of my favorites so far, for sure.

[Gurn Blanston]

Yes, during the third and fourth movements I was thinking that it was almost like an oboe concerto. One of my favorites so far, for sure.

I like 38, it might be a good place to start. Here is a little background on it. It is part of a genre that all Viennese composers contributed to from the early 1700's through Beethoven and even Bruckner, called 'Festive C major'. Haydn was as good at it as any, and better than most. Nice place to start, IMO.

Ahem; I thought you might like it...     

[Ken B]

Ahem; I thought you might like it...     

And he has 39 still to listen to.

[Gurn Blanston]

And he has 39 still to listen to.

Yup, a lot to look forward to there. The outer movements of 39 are forward looking, while the inner movements look the other way. Interesting contrast.

[EigenUser]

Yup, a lot to look forward to there. The outer movements of 39 are forward looking, while the inner movements look the other way. Interesting contrast.

So far I've heard:
1 6 7 8 22 35 36 37 38 39 46 65 79 83 85 87 88 92 95 96 98 99 100

That's 23 of them, or precisely 22.1154% (going by the usual numbered 104). I mean, sure, I could spend a couple of days playing each one on YouTube, but I'd rather listen a few times (both with and without the score) and let it absorb. I am finding that classical (era) music can often sound generic to me if I listen passively. I do play music in the background quite often, but I can't really appreciate it well for its own sake like that. It's only when I listen actively that I can distinguish each one and see the craft behind it.

I'm going to keep a little checklist on my introduction page (inspired by Gurn's grid a few pages ago) as a place for me to keep track of what I've heard.

[Gurn Blanston]

So far I've heard:
1 6 7 8 22 35 36 37 38 39 46 65 79 83 85 87 88 92 95 96 98 99 100

That's 23 of them, or precisely 22.1154% (going by the usual numbered 104). I mean, sure, I could spend a couple of days playing each one on YouTube, but I'd rather listen a few times (both with and without the score) and let it absorb. I am finding that classical (era) music can often sound generic to me if I listen passively. I do play music in the background quite often, but I can't really appreciate it well for its own sake like that. It's only when I listen actively that I can distinguish each one and see the craft behind it.

I'm going to keep a little checklist on my introduction page (inspired by Gurn's grid a few pages ago) as a place for me to keep track of what I've heard.

Honestly, I wish I had done something like that at the start. The horse is out of the paddock now, though, and I have heard every one of them at least 20 times, some of them way more than that. Neither do I have scores for all of them. It would be great practice for me to listen with scores though, since I now know the music so well that it would have a reverse effect from what it has for you and would learn score-reading better.

Good plan! 

[EigenUser]

Honestly, I wish I had done something like that at the start. The horse is out of the paddock now, though, and I have heard every one of them at least 20 times, some of them way more than that. Neither do I have scores for all of them. It would be great practice for me to listen with scores though, since I now know the music so well that it would have a reverse effect from what it has for you and would learn score-reading better.

Good plan! 

Yeah, no hurry. I mean it's not like playing Super Mario where playing all levels unlocks secret levels (right??).

I do wish that I was able to appreciate music better without having to know what it looks like on paper. So many people here have heard so many things and they can appreciate music for the sound as opposed to the writing on paper. Perhaps many of them wish the opposite. I guess "the grass is always greener."

I actually have a couple of questions that I'll post in the near future (I'll have to take a couple of pictures). Just a few things that caught my attention while listening with the score.

What editions of the scores do you have? Do you have a preference, or are you like me in that you get whatever copy you can get your hands on?

I hate miniature scores, by the way. Hate, hate, hate. It isn't so much of a problem with Haydn, but many composers still not PD only have things available in miniature scores. Universal Edition is notorious for this, as is Boosey&Hawkes, though the latter is actually getting better with their "masterworks" series. This sucks for me, though, since these are Bartok's two publishers. Currently I'm thinking of doing a two-piano reduction of the Bartok "Divertimento for Strings", but I'll have to be squinting at the 6"x4.5" nearly-index-card-size score. Schott is awesome, though -- they print full-size scores. Then again, a mini-score for Ligeti would require a scanning-electron-microscope so they don't have much of a choice. I also just got Ades "Asyla" for my birthday last week and that was an oversized score.

Well, that's my miniature-score rant.

[Sergeant Rock]

So far I've heard:
1 6 7 8 22 35 36 37 38 39 46 65 79 83 85 87 88 92 95 96 98 99 100

Color coded? What does it mean?

Sarge

[EigenUser]

Color coded? What does it mean?

Sarge

Oops, I forgot to mention. Green means I particularly liked it and red means I didn't care for it much. It's on my introduction page:
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,22921.msg808077.html#msg808077

[Gurn Blanston]

I've been meaning to update my pages with the symphony chronologies, but time has been short. Since I learned how to put tables in a page, I went back and updated part 1 & 2, and added page 4, bringing the series all the way up to the Paris Symphonies!

Chronology of the Symphonies 1775 - 1784

Hope you find it useful.

[torut]

I've been meaning to update my pages with the symphony chronologies, but time has been short. Since I learned how to put tables in a page, I went back and updated part 1 & 2, and added page 4, bringing the series all the way up to the Paris Symphonies!

Chronology of the Symphonies 1775 - 1784

Hope you find it useful.

This is an invaluable information. Thank you. This kind of info on Wikipedia or IMLSP seem inaccurate.

I have a question. Is there a book about Haydn's compositions like The Compleat Mozart by Zaslaw: the name, the key, the numbering (Hob. etc.), the composition year, the scoring, a short description of the background, for every composition of Haydn? I understand that it would be a difficult task (I read that chronology thing ), and I am afraid that the answer is "no", but I believe Haydn deserves such a book that is accessible to any Haydn fans.

[EigenUser]

Okay, here is my question. I hope you don't mind.

What is the deal with these grace notes in the first circled measure? This happens in nearly every symphony I've seen so far and this one (38) is just an example. Why are they played like a set of four sixteenth-notes? Is there some sort of unspoken rule about this? If so, why doesn't he just write four sixteenth notes?

On the other hand, look at the next measure, where there is a set of four sixteenth-notes. Why isn't this notated as before (with the grace note)? Is there a difference that my modern-era ear can't distinguish? To me, they both sound like a set of four sixteenth-notes.

To make matters even more confusing, I was listening to another symphony of his with the score, and one of the grace notes was played like a normal grace note.

You might have to right-click "view image" to see it right-side up in case it isn't already.

[amw]

The short answer is that the grace notes (technically appoggiaturas) were used at the time as a sort of shorthand for common ornaments/melodic patterns, similar to the trill, mordent and turn symbols. That particular pattern is always played as four semiquavers or quavers.

I have to go to bed now, I'll give the long answer when I next have a chance to fire up Sibelius

[Gurn Blanston]

This is an invaluable information. Thank you. This kind of info on Wikipedia or IMLSP seem inaccurate.

I have a question. Is there a book about Haydn's compositions like The Compleat Mozart by Zaslaw: the name, the key, the numbering (Hob. etc.), the composition year, the scoring, a short description of the background, for every composition of Haydn? I understand that it would be a difficult task (I read that chronology thing ), and I am afraid that the answer is "no", but I believe Haydn deserves such a book that is accessible to any Haydn fans.

Well, I'm writing one now, so if you are patient, maybe it will be available in your lifetime! That is one of the 2 books I have chosen as a model, the other being Thayer's Life of Beethoven. I think Zaslaw was totally on the mark with his Mozart book, it is one of my favorites. But otherwise, the short answer is no. There is no such book. This is the source of my inspiration!

[Karl Henning]

The short answer is that the grace notes (technically appoggiaturas) were used at the time as a sort of shorthand for common ornaments/melodic patterns, similar to the trill, mordent and turn symbols. That particular pattern is always played as four semiquavers or quavers.

I have to go to bed now, I'll give the long answer when I next have a chance to fire up Sibelius

I shall appreciate that.  I have a half-remembered answer which I keep in reserve, because I should shake the dust off . . . .

[torut]

Well, I'm writing one now, so if you are patient, maybe it will be available in your lifetime! That is one of the 2 books I have chosen as a model, the other being Thayer's Life of Beethoven. I think Zaslaw was totally on the mark with his Mozart book, it is one of my favorites. But otherwise, the short answer is no. There is no such book. This is the source of my inspiration!

Thank you for the answer. There are Haydn books about popular genres such as symphonies and string quartets, but it would be wonderful if there is a book like Zaslaw's, including every composition of Haydn. Your plan of that kind of book is really exciting! I am looking forward to it.

[Gurn Blanston]

Thank you for the answer. There are Haydn books about popular genres such as symphonies and string quartets, but it would be wonderful if there is a book like Zaslaw's, including every composition of Haydn. Your plan of that kind of book is really exciting! I am looking forward to it.

Thanks!  In fact, I'm looking forward to it too.

[Madiel]

Pardon if this is "old news," but look what is being released day after tomorrow:

[asin]B009LNI0T0[/asin]

*delayed reaction* Isn't that simply the set you've all been waving enticingly in front of my eyes for months and months?

It says 'import', and the release date now also says July. It doesn't look like a new release at all.

EDIT: And note the dates of the customer reviews.

[Gurn Blanston]

*delayed reaction* Isn't that simply the set you've all been waving enticingly in front of my eyes for months and months?

It says 'import', and the release date now also says July. It doesn't look like a new release at all.

EDIT: And note the dates of the customer reviews.

Orf,
I think they all bought it from Italy and other Euro venues last year. It was not released in the States til now. I can't say for sure since I already had all the individual volumes and so it never affected me personally...