Haydn's Haus

[Madiel]

By the way, I'm on page 115 of this thread. How did it get to be such a monster?  The other major composers threads are just 1/4 or so of this length... 

The other major composers don't have Gurn to generate conversation points.

[Mookalafalas]

The other major composers don't have Gurn to generate conversation points.

Yeah, that's probably the key. I took a gander at the Mozart thread, and not only did the OP immediately abandon the thread, apparently some joker made a lot of trouble and had to have his posts excised (somewhere in the early pages)...

[EigenUser]

The other major composers don't have Gurn to generate conversation points.

Yeah, that's probably the key. I took a gander at the Mozart thread, and not only did the OP immediately abandon the thread, apparently some joker made a lot of trouble and had to have his posts excised (somewhere in the early pages)...

There is Gurn, but there is also a general appreciation for Haydn. He seems to be far more popular than Mozart on GMG (maybe people don't want to admit it, but that seems to be the case just by reading threads).

I'd love to have that going for the Ligeti thread, but there isn't enough enthusiasm for his music here. Surprisingly, most people on GMG seem to think rather highly of him, but only listen in small doses (which is, of course, totally understandable!). I'd also like to see more action on the Ockeghem thread I started (I can't believe there wasn't one until 2014!!), but I guess renaissance music is also of limited interest.

Then there are James and Uatu on the Stockhausen thread... Even though I don't like most of his music, it is a very interesting place for discussion and I've even discovered two or three works that I really like.

Also, keep in mind how large Haydn's output is compared to these other guys. As Simon Rattle put it, "He is the greatest composer that we don't know. What we have is the tip of the iceberg." I'm sure that also has a lot to do with the size of this thread.

[Gurn Blanston]

There is Gurn, but there is also a general appreciation for Haydn. He seems to be far more popular than Mozart on GMG (maybe people don't want to admit it, but that seems to be the case just by reading threads).

The other major composers don't have Gurn to generate conversation points.

Back on '03 when I first started here, Haydn's status was distinctly different than it is now. The prevailing attitude was to either ignore him, else to subscribe to the disgusting canard that his only music worth listening to were the Paris and London symphonies, Op 20, 33 & 76 quartets, the very last piano trios and sonatas and the late Masses. But we gradually got a new crop of members, people like Sarge who were not only knowledgeable but already well into Haydn's music beyond those works. As for me, all I have ever done is to shine a spotlight into the darker corners and drag out the great amount of stuff which many of us had never heard about, and also to be available to give factual information when asked. With a composer as great as Haydn, this is all that is needed to put him on a level footing, his music does the rest.   

[DavidW]

There is Gurn, but there is also a general appreciation for Haydn. He seems to be far more popular than Mozart on GMG (maybe people don't want to admit it, but that seems to be the case just by reading threads).

That really is an irritation for me because I love both composers.  When Gurn and I first started posting here, Haydn was highly underrepresented.  It's not all Gurn.  Sarge, Karl, Larry and Molman did alot to elevate Haydn's status on this board.  I find it amusing that Gurn unintentionally did more to devalue Mozart on this forum than Iago ever could.

What I especially love about both composers is how they compliment each other.  If one is poor at one genre, the other is usually strong.

[Mookalafalas]

That really is an irritation for me because I love both composers.  When Gurn and I first started posting here, Haydn was highly underrepresented.  It's not all Gurn.  Sarge, Karl, Larry and Molman did alot to elevate Haydn's status on this board.  I find it amusing that Gurn unintentionally did more to devalue Mozart on this forum than Iago ever could.

What I especially love about both composers is how they compliment each other.  If one is poor at one genre, the other is usually strong.

From other sites I've participated in, just having a good moderators presence--nipping nastiness in the bud, keeping the tone neighborly and productive--can make a big difference.

   Back to Haydn talk, I put on a Staier disc

[asin]B0007AC1GO[/asin]

and semi-accidentally listened to it 3X.   Wonderful.   I've heard people describe Staier as "uneven", but I find it hard to believe.  I have his DHM 10 disc box and his Haydn, and have loved every note I've heard.

[Gurn Blanston]

That really is an irritation for me because I love both composers.  When Gurn and I first started posting here, Haydn was highly underrepresented.  It's not all Gurn.  Sarge, Karl, Larry and Molman did alot to elevate Haydn's status on this board.  I find it amusing that Gurn unintentionally did more to devalue Mozart on this forum than Iago ever could.

What I especially love about both composers is how they compliment each other.  If one is poor at one genre, the other is usually strong.

Both compliment AND complement. As you say. As you are one of the few who knows, I could have just as easily done with Mozart what I do with Haydn. I just never felt he needed a boost, everyone loves Mozart (except for Newman). Anyway, did you read my post? Hope so....

[Gurn Blanston]

From other sites I've participated in, just having a good moderators presence--nipping nastiness in the bud, keeping the tone neighborly and productive--can make a big difference.

   Back to Haydn talk, I put on a Staier disc

[asin]B0007AC1GO[/asin]

and semi-accidentally listened to it 3X.   Wonderful.   I've heard people describe Staier as "uneven", but I find it hard to believe.  I have his DHM 10 disc box and his Haydn, and have loved every note I've heard.

I love Staier's Haydn, I have the 3 individual disks which make up that set.

It's funny, as many of Staier's recordings as I have, you would think the unevenness would have showed up by now, somewhere... 

[EigenUser]

Both compliment AND complement. As you say. As you are one of the few who knows, I could have just as easily done with Mozart what I do with Haydn. I just never felt he needed a boost, everyone loves Mozart (except for Newman). Anyway, did you read my post? Hope so....

Yeah, I don't subscribe to the "Mozart industry".



A long time ago I saw the thread where he got chased off of GMG. That guy seemed certifiable! And I don't mean as a musicologist...

[Gurn Blanston]

Yeah, I don't subscribe to the "Mozart industry".



A long time ago I saw the thread where he got chased off of GMG. That guy seemed certifiable! And I don't mean as a musicologist...

I would sign the certificate myself. In one of the posts that's gone, he freely admitted, almost boasted, that he knew nothing about music theory or structure. He couldn't tell Mozart from Haydn and claimed no one could, which didn't matter since neither of them wrote any of their own music anyway. Does that one tiny example of logic tell you anything?   

[Gurn Blanston]

Well, I suppose this will be another unintended dagger through Mozart's heart... 

1776 brought some big changes to Eszterháza. It also brought Haydn's only autobiographical note. I look at both of them in my new essay. Have a look!

I was born in 1733... ummm 1732!

Thanks!

[Dancing Divertimentian]

I find it amusing that Gurn unintentionally did more to devalue Mozart on this forum than Iago ever could.

Ha!! I had forgotten about Iago's rants. He and Newman...two peas in a pod.

[Karl Henning]

Save Iago you knew was in his right mind.  Somewhere in there

[kishnevi]

Well, I suppose this will be another unintended dagger through Mozart's heart... 

1776 brought some big changes to Eszterháza. It also brought Haydn's only autobiographical note. I look at both of them in my new essay. Have a look!

I was born in 1733... ummm 1732!

Thanks!

Pedantische Berlinern!

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Save Iago you knew was in his right mind.  Somewhere in there

0:)

[Madiel]

My Kuijken symphonies arrived today. No.82 has been keeping me company several times.

I didn't even notice the harpsichord continuo until the second movement. I thought "hang on, that's what causes raging debates about authenticity?". Of course there might be other recordings where it's a good deal less subtle, but so far it isn't upsetting me in the slightest even though I've not encountered it before.

[springrite]

Ha!! I had forgotten about Iago's rants. He and Newman...two peas in a pod.

Intended or not, I am sure he won't appreciate it (I sure know him, hehee) but I will let him know!

[Florestan]

Folks, Iago is dead. De mortuis nil nisi bene.

[springrite]

 

Folks, Iago is dead. De mortuis nil nisi bene.

Yes, we know. He was a good friend and a very much misunderstood soul, with a very good core that few got to know.

[Florestan]

Yes, we know. He was a good friend and a very much misunderstood soul, with a very good core that few got to know.

That was exactly my point.