Haydn's Haus

[Gurn Blanston]

I snagged a reasonably priced copy of Brüggen's Creation and greatly enjoyed it. Hopefully it will be reissued so more people can hear it.

(Disclaimer: I am not any sort of expert on this piece. Gardiner is my only other recording.)

Ah, lucky you. I keep shopping around, you never know when one will hit the AMP or eBay. I've gotten some splendid disks from eBay for .99! 

[Pat B]

Ah, lucky you. I keep shopping around, you never know when one will hit the AMP or eBay. I've gotten some splendid disks from eBay for .99! 

If it's any consolation, my purchase was hardly a steal. For a used 2xCD it was actually a bit on the pricey side -- but it was much lower than the "do they actually want somebody to buy that?" AMP prices that are typical for this set. I didn't want to gloat over it at the time but since DD brought it up...

[Dancing Divertimentian]

If it's any consolation, my purchase was hardly a steal. For a used 2xCD it was actually a bit on the pricey side -- but it was much lower than the "do they actually want somebody to buy that?" AMP prices that are typical for this set. I didn't want to gloat over it at the time but since DD brought it up...

I got lucky...I found mine in a remaindered bin at Tower Records. Total cost: about $5 or $6. Seemed like a good buy at the time. Seems even more like one now! 

[Mookalafalas]

I recently read some very excited rave reviews of the Mosaiques SQ set, so I got a hold of their Op 76.
 
  I must say

  Too cultured for me, I guess.  I'm going to pass it along to my grandmother.  I'm sticking with the Buchbergers.  I like "rock 'em sock 'em" string quartets, apparently.  Really, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Mosaiques are more talented in every measurable category of violin playing. Probably they are even more authentic. In fact, I can almost picture them playing at a 1770s blue stocking society tea soiree...the old ladies' neck-wattle swaying appreciatively as they listen
    I know I'm being too harsh.  Maybe I will mature into them, but for the immediate future the Buchbergers are for me . 

    Also played some Barytone Trios.  Terrific background music, IMO.  I like the sound a lot-- a gentle, rich resonance in very low key but pleasant melodies.

[Gurn Blanston]

I recently read some very excited rave reviews of the Mosaiques SQ set, so I got a hold of their Op 76.
 
  I must say

  Too cultured for me, I guess.  I'm going to pass it along to my grandmother.  I'm sticking with the Buchbergers.  I like "rock 'em sock 'em" string quartets, apparently.  Really, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Mosaiques are more talented in every measurable category of violin playing. Probably they are even more authentic. In fact, I can almost picture them playing at a 1770s blue stocking society tea soiree...the old ladies' neck-wattle swaying appreciatively as they listen
    I know I'm being too harsh.  Maybe I will mature into them, but for the immediate future the Buchbergers are for me . 

    Also played some Baryton Trios.  Terrific background music, IMO.  I like the sound a lot-- a gentle, rich resonance in very low key but pleasant melodies.

It's nice to know, though, that you aren't the Lone Ranger. The discussion here centered on the dichotomy between perfection and vitality. There were champions for both sides. On the vitality side, the recordings weren't the Buchberger's, though they could have been, it was the Festetics. Same issues, though.

I am one of 11 fans of Baryton music; yes, the choice of instruments there is inspired. Not a soprano in sight.

[Old Listener]

It's nice to know, though, that you aren't the Lone Ranger. The discussion here centered on the dichotomy between perfection and vitality. There were champions for both sides. On the vitality side, the recordings weren't the Buchberger's, though they could have been, it was the Festetics. Same issues, though.

I bought the Mosaiques's Op. 20 and 33 sets based on glowing reviews.  YAWN!

I slowly acquired the Festetics recordings of various Op. no and like those much better.

[Karl Henning]

Well, I like the Mosaïques a great deal.

But, it would be a funny world if we all thought the same.

[Gurn Blanston]

I bought the Mosaiques's Op. 20 and 33 sets based on glowing reviews.  YAWN!

I slowly acquired the Festetics recordings of various Op. no and like those much better.

You and many others. I appreciate both sets for what they are. If I had to pare down to one set, it would be the Festetics.   

[Madiel]

How did the Festetics actually go with you in that blind listening, though?

While I was warning Baklavaboy that the Buchbergers came dead last in the blind listening, I saw that I had liked the Festetics far more than average.

(Still recall the sensation that the Buchbergers were heading straight over a cliff. Yuk. I know it was only one movement out of hundreds, but still.)

[Gurn Blanston]

How did the Festetics actually go with you in that blind listening, though?

While I was warning Baklavaboy that the Buchbergers came dead last in the blind listening, I saw that I had liked the Festetics far more than average.

(Still recall the sensation that the Buchbergers were heading straight over a cliff. Yuk. I know it was only one movement out of hundreds, but still.)

That particular quartet (Op 50 #1), my favorite, BTW, is not the best of the Festetics. In fact, I chose the Salomon's, followed by the Tokyo. But I have all of the Salomon's disks, and as a (mostly) cycle, I prefer the Festetics overall, by a good margin.

I share your fear of the Buchbergers!    I have only listened to them sporadically, but all the ones I heard share that same breakneck sort of feeling. As I said to someone else, the Festetics feel like they are sitting on my porch on a summer evening... 

[Dancing Divertimentian]

I recently read some very excited rave reviews of the Mosaiques SQ set, so I got a hold of their Op 76.
 
Too cultured for me, I guess.......In fact, I can almost picture them playing at a 1770s blue stocking society tea soiree...the old ladies' neck-wattle swaying appreciatively as they listen

Cute, but not even close.

[Mookalafalas]

Listening through the rest of the set there is no question the Mosaiques are a fantastic group of musicians.  I would not be at all surprised if my position gradually reverses itself.  However,  going from the wood-creaking, wire-screeching, in-your-face, high-energy Buchbergers directly to the staid, elegant refinement of the Mosaiques was a startling contrast.  Give me some time to mature 0:)

[Gurn Blanston]

Cute, but not even close.

Like I said, not everyone is in agreement on this issue. There are many who agree with you. Equally many who don't. I find it interesting; I have all the keyboard trios with Hobarth and Coin, with Cohen on fortepiano. They sound much more "rough and ready" than the quartets do. Theoretically, this is a reflection of their genres: quartets, at least by the end of the 18th century, were already imbued with a sense of polish. Trios were meant to be played privately among friends, and being somewhat rollicking was not antithetical to their nature. Quartets started out that way, but over time they grew into specimens instead. In Haydn's case it wasn't until Op 64 that he was really writing for the public as such. He sold Op 33 by subscription, of course, but to private individuals who played them in private, not to touring virtuosos who played them in any sort of public recital sort of atmosphere. This engraving by a fellow named Schmid (a likely story! ), which is from the 18th century, purports to be Haydn playing quartets. Look at the people standing around, and the way they are wearing ordinary clothes and playing casually. While I realize it is an idealized look, it is a far cry from four guys in tuxedos playing on a stage in front of a dead quiet audience. I really believe this is the purpose for which quartets were written, certainly so by Haydn.

click to enlarge

Anyway, that's my opinion, many will say I'm wrong, and I may be. I just like the direction music took then more than the one it took since then. 

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Like I said, not everyone is in agreement on this issue. There are many who agree with you. Equally many who don't. I find it interesting; I have all the keyboard trios with Hobarth and Coin, with Cohen on fortepiano. They sound much more "rough and ready" than the quartets do. Theoretically, this is a reflection of their genres: quartets, at least by the end of the 18th century, were already imbued with a sense of polish. Trios were meant to be played privately among friends, and being somewhat rollicking was not antithetical to their nature. Quartets started out that way, but over time they grew into specimens instead. In Haydn's case it wasn't until Op 64 that he was really writing for the public as such. He sold Op 33 by subscription, of course, but to private individuals who played them in private, not to touring virtuosos who played them in any sort of public recital sort of atmosphere. This engraving by a fellow named Schmid (a likely story! ), which is from the 18th century, purports to be Haydn playing quartets. Look at the people standing around, and the way they are wearing ordinary clothes and playing casually. While I realize it is an idealized look, it is a far cry from four guys in tuxedos playing on a stage in front of a dead quiet audience. I really believe this is the purpose for which quartets were written, certainly so by Haydn.

click to enlarge

Anyway, that's my opinion, many will say I'm wrong, and I may be. I just like the direction music took then more than the one it took since then. 

"Specimens"? So the downfall started when selling tickets began and the public was allowed in? I'm afraid my friend we're going to have to agree to disagree on that one (as you say).

To me it's cyclical. New opportunities are what keep the artistic engines running. If Haydn's "little den of chamber arts" is whisked away by a public gone mad with Haydn fever then I say let the walls crumble. If the Op.64 is anything to go by I'd say Haydn had no problems adapting to his new surroundings. To me the Op.64 is just what the musical doctor ordered: sophisticated, dapper, resourceful, and ready to be unleashed on the wider public.

Specimen? Darn right!  

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Listening through the rest of the set there is no question the Mosaiques are a fantastic group of musicians.  I would not be at all surprised if my position gradually reverses itself.  However,  going from the wood-creaking, wire-screeching, in-your-face, high-energy Buchbergers directly to the staid, elegant refinement of the Mosaiques was a startling contrast.  Give me some time to mature 0:)

Just don't pass it on to any relatives...for awhile, anyway.

[Gurn Blanston]

"Specimens"? So the downfall started when selling tickets began and the public was allowed in? I'm afraid my friend we're going to have to agree to disagree on that one (as you say).

To me it's cyclical. New opportunities are what keep the artistic engines running. If Haydn's "little den of chamber arts" is whisked away by a public gone mad with Haydn fever then I say let the walls crumble. If the Op.64 is anything to go by I'd say Haydn had no problems adapting to his new surroundings. To me the Op.64 is just what the musical doctor ordered: sophisticated, dapper, resourceful, and ready to be unleashed on the wider public.

Specimen? Darn right!

I used that word intentionally to get a reaction from you. I like that!   

I like music for its original intention. Which is why I don't like full-blown modern orchestras playing music from 1775, Haydn or otherwise. Sure, it sounds great, not saying otherwise. It doesn't please me. This is why there are so many different recordings available these days, which I applaud. Also, you shouldn't think I don't like QM. They just aren't my favorite. 

[Florestan]

I like music for its original intention.

Whatever Haydn's intention were, he certainly didn't write music for being recorded on CD. Now you have a big problem. 

[Karl Henning]

Even in a small, homey space, Gurn, the audience may be dead quiet.  That winning combination of interest in the music, and courtesy to the musicians 

[Karl Henning]

Whatever Haydn's intention were, he certainly didn't write music for being recorded on CD. Now you have a big problem. 

Dud, you had to go there, didn't you?     0:)   

[Madiel]

Whatever Haydn's intention were, he certainly didn't write music for being recorded on CD. Now you have a big problem. 

Dare I say it... it's time to start listening to CDs of popular music!

(Or mp3s. Some pop music acts are clearly embracing the death of the album format and the rise of the 'playlist'.)