Haydn's Haus

[Gurn Blanston]

Yes, I seem to remember working out that, even with modern instruments, this was a natural grouping of symphonies (or 2 natural groupings) that was very difficult to find on disc.

I haven't run the gamut of modern recordings, but I think you would have to buy one of the complete cycles to find all 6 of them. I use Fischer, not just because I have it, but I also like it pretty well.  Gotta have PI for horns and oboes though...

[TheGSMoeller]

I'm still in a funk over the poor recording history of the 76-81 symphonies. But I didn't let that deter me this week, when I took a look at the latter three. Hard to realize he isn't writing for Eszterháza any more. Anyway, have a look if you'd like.

For the world beyond

Thanks,

"The finale...is downright amusing" 
Wonderful, Gurn. No. 80 is a fantastic piece, been my favorite symphony from Haydn for a while now. It is a shame its not as represented as other works, I mean do we really need any more Military Symphony recording? 

[Old Listener]

"The finale...is downright amusing" 
Wonderful, Gurn. No. 80 is a fantastic piece, been my favorite symphony from Haydn for a while now. It is a shame its not as represented as other works, I mean do we really need any more Military Symphony recording? 

There is a cheaper version of the Golz/Freiberg Baroque CD of Sym. 49 and 80.

[asin]B00K1Q3UZK[/asin]

I had been waiting for the original version to get cheaper.

---
There is a Freiberg Baroque concert recording of Sym. 78 with Petra Mullejans conducting around on the internet.  I listened today and continue to like it.  I can't remember where I found it.

I don't think that the situation with Sym. 80 recordings is so bad.  Orpheus CO, Glover / London Mozart players and Adam Fischer/ AH Haydn Orchestra are all in my rotation. 

For 81, there is Orpheus, an energetic Blum and Fischer.  There is a Hogwood / AAM video on Youtube.

[Jo498]

I agree that 76-81 are neglected, but 80 far less so. I recently got the Orpheus CD with 53,73 and 79 and while pretty good it's not as good as their #80 and I am somewhat tired of the squeaky clean but somewhat bland style of the ensemble, so I probably will not bother with the two remaining discs of their Haydn I have not heard yet (60/91 and 78/102). I actually got rid of their 48/49 because I vastly preferred the PI recordings (like Solomons and Pinnock). And Harnoncourt is sometimes a bit slow but far more color- and characterful in 53 and 73.

As I wrote somewhere above I think some of Fischer's best work is the disc with 76-78. It's been a while I listened to his 79-81 and I seem to recall some substandard playing in either 79 or 81 so I am certainly keeping the Orpheus for thoses pieces (I think I liked them better in 81 than 79 but I not all that fond of 79 as piece I guess).

[Jo498]

Other stuff I got recently:
- The Schuppanzigh qt disc with opp.54/1, 74/3 and 20/2. This is good but for some reason I do not love it as much as I expected to. Might be that I became somewhat unused to period string qt sounds...
- The harpsichord concerti and concertini/divertimenti with Koopman on a Philips 2fer. I have to admit that the divertimenti seem to me quite unessential and not something one had to go out of one's way for.
- jpc.de had the Haenssler box with the piano sonatas by Ekaterina Derzhavina for EUR 20 and I couldn't resist. This was praised in some quarters as the best modern instrument complete recording. I am working my way through it and it seems a steal for that price!

https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Joseph-Haydn-1732-1809-S%E4mtliche-Klaviersonaten/hnum/3386171

[Gurn Blanston]

"The finale...is downright amusing" 
Wonderful, Gurn. No. 80 is a fantastic piece, been my favorite symphony from Haydn for a while now. It is a shame its not as represented as other works, I mean do we really need any more Military Symphony recording? 

Thanks, Greg. I am grateful to be writing these essays sometimes, because I do some serious hard listening and hear things I never did before, like those off beat syncopations in the 1st violins. It's a hoot! 

Well, that's always the hard thing to explain to record companies; yes, a Military Symphony disk always sells well, and yes, we all still like that one, but there are only so many possible interpretations available. How about starting a new set of interpretations with these works. You can start a path, what a rare opportunity!   

[Gurn Blanston]

There is a cheaper version of the Golz/Freiberg Baroque CD of Sym. 49 and 80.

[asin]B00K1Q3UZK[/asin]

I had been waiting for the original version to get cheaper.

---
There is a Freiberg Baroque concert recording of Sym. 78 with Petra Mullejans conducting around on the internet.  I listened today and continue to like it.  I can't remember where I found it.

I don't think that the situation with Sym. 80 recordings is so bad.  Orpheus CO, Glover / London Mozart players and Adam Fischer/ AH Haydn Orchestra are all in my rotation. 

For 81, there is Orpheus, an energetic Blum and Fischer.  There is a Hogwood / AAM video on Youtube.

When I got the one I used there, back in 2010, it was remaindered at BRO for $4.99. In fact, I got every disk in that HM 'Haydn 2009' set that uses PI (Queyras, Staier, Freiburg X 3, Spering's 'Cantatas', the double of the keyboard trios etc.) for that price each. One of my great buys ever!

Good to see they hve re-released it too. Those 'Musique Abord' disks are a lifesaver for rare repertoire!

[Gurn Blanston]

---
There is a Freiberg Baroque concert recording of Sym. 78 with Petra Mullejans conducting around on the internet.  I listened today and continue to like it.  I can't remember where I found it.

I don't think that the situation with Sym. 80 recordings is so bad.  Orpheus CO, Glover / London Mozart players and Adam Fischer/ AH Haydn Orchestra are all in my rotation. 

For 81, there is Orpheus, an energetic Blum and Fischer.  There is a Hogwood / AAM video on Youtube.

Yes, someone here (you, yes?) kindly pointed me to the Hogwood 79 & 81 videos, I watched them again just yesterday in fact.

But even with the bootlegs, MI's, one-off's etc out there, it is still fair to say these works are unjustifiably not well served. I like that Glover/LMP version, BTW, I used that one (as my primary) before I got the Freiburg.

[Gurn Blanston]

I agree that 76-81 are neglected, but 80 far less so. I recently got the Orpheus CD with 53,73 and 79 and while pretty good it's not as good as their #80 and I am somewhat tired of the squeaky clean but somewhat bland style of the ensemble, so I probably will not bother with the two remaining discs of their Haydn I have not heard yet (60/91 and 78/102). I actually got rid of their 48/49 because I vastly preferred the PI recordings (like Solomons and Pinnock). And Harnoncourt is sometimes a bit slow but far more color- and characterful in 53 and 73.

As I wrote somewhere above I think some of Fischer's best work is the disc with 76-78. It's been a while I listened to his 79-81 and I seem to recall some substandard playing in either 79 or 81 so I am certainly keeping the Orpheus for thoses pieces (I think I liked them better in 81 than 79 but I not all that fond of 79 as piece I guess).

Before I sank irretrievably into PI, I had all of those Orpheus disks, also all their Mozart recordings (divertimentos and serenades, mainly) and was happy enough with them. I think your 'squeaky clean' description fit them to a 'T', and I have grown to prefer down and dirty. I have put myself in a position with Haydn recordings that I don't have to settle for anything now, if I don't have every PI recording ever made, it is because I don't know it exists. That said, these few symphonies are the nexus between the 'have's' and the 'have not's' in recordings...

[Wakefield]

It seems that Beethoven was "technically" right because the actual lessons with Haydn were not successful (because Haydn was to busy). But the reason he proclaimed loudly that he had never learned *anything* from Haydn was probably that he wanted to appear as youthful irascible genius (which he actually was anyway). Of course, he had learned a lot from Haydn's COMPOSITIONS, if not from doing counterpoint exercises with the old man.

I totally agree: it's a well thought opinion.

At some point, it recalls this controversial idea of George Bernard Shaw from Man and Superman: "He who can, does. He who cannot, teaches."

[Wakefield]

- jpc.de had the Haenssler box with the piano sonatas by Ekaterina Derzhavina for EUR 20 and I couldn't resist. This was praised in some quarters as the best modern instrument complete recording. I am working my way through it and it seems a steal for that price!

https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Joseph-Haydn-1732-1809-S%E4mtliche-Klaviersonaten/hnum/3386171

I concur again: IMO, the best complete cycle on modern piano. I love the touch of this lady and her decisions about the pedal. 

[Mandryka]

On the symphonyshare site we once had a little Haydn 80 festival. Someone uploaded unpublished recordings from
Walter Weller in 1983, Peter Guelke in 1987,  Jonathan Cohen in 2009 and Christian Zacharias in 2011. I remember how much fun it was comparing these, and I remember being really impressed by Peter Guelke, who doesn't seem to have recorded very much before or since.

Apart from that, there are tremendous 80s from Nicholas  Kraemer and from Scherchen of course.
       

[Mandryka]

I concur again: IMO, the best complete cycle on modern piano. I love the touch of this lady and her decisions about the pedal.

Have you heard Jenö Jandó? I haven't but I've been so impressed by his Schubert and Bartok recently that I was meanng to listen to some of his Haydn.

[Jo498]

Marriner could also sometimes described as "squeaky clean" but I think he offers usually more flair than the Orpheus (I still like some of his "Paris" set a lot). With some pieces as 79-81 the alternatives are so few and far between that the technically brilliant playing of the Orpheus is something to be valued. But for the remaining ones I feel pretty sure that I already own alternative recordings I prefer.

With Kraemer I had one BBC? disc (live) with modern instruments. This included 80 but I apparently got rid of it for some reason before my last move, probably because I clearly preferred others I already had. Maybe I should have kept it but I must have been less than impressed with the whole thing (there are so few recordings of 67 so this would also have been a reason to keep it).

[Wakefield]

Have you heard Jenö Jandó? I haven't but I've been so impressed by his Schubert and Bartok recently that I was meanng to listen to some of his Haydn.

Yes, I have heard three disks from his Haydn cycle. And he's that good and consistent as usual. I'd say that Derzhavina is a bit more HIP influenced and with a higher degree of intimacy, whatever this means. 

[Karl Henning]

I'm still in a funk over the poor recording history of the 76-81 symphonies. But I didn't let that deter me this week, when I took a look at the latter three. Hard to realize he isn't writing for Eszterháza any more. Anyway, have a look if you'd like.

For the world beyond

Thanks,

I want to visit (revisit?) these symphonies and re-read your post . . . I should have spelled it straitened financial circs., but perhaps straightened is an alternative spelling?

[Gurn Blanston]

I want to visit (revisit?) these symphonies and re-read your post . . . I should have spelled it straitened financial circs., but perhaps straightened is an alternative spelling?

No, if I had written it myself I would have used 'straitened', but I was quoting (via copy and paste) someone else who actually said 'straightened', and I am ethically loathe to correct someone else's spelling in a quote situation. I should have put a [sic] after it though...

However, other than that, will you re-listen? Curious if it overcomes the snow for you.   

[Karl Henning]

No, if I had written it myself I would have used 'straitened', but I was quoting (via copy and paste) someone else who actually said 'straightened', and I am ethically loathe to correct someone else's spelling in a quote situation. I should have put a [sic] after it though...

However, other than that, will you re-listen? Curious if it overcomes the snow for you.   

I thought that probably you were faithfully transcribing another's spelling.

After some more chipping away at my Sanctus, those symphonies are my first recreational listening priority!

[Old Listener]

Yes, someone here (you, yes?) kindly pointed me to the Hogwood 79 & 81 videos, I watched them again just yesterday in fact.

But even with the bootlegs, MI's, one-off's etc out there, it is still fair to say these works are unjustifiably not well served. I like that Glover/LMP version, BTW, I used that one (as my primary) before I got the Freiburg.

Yes, I pointed them out.  Another one (from YouTube I think)

Haydn- Symphony no. 80 in D minor, Hob. I-80 - Les Arts Florissants

You might like this too (SymphonyShare I think.)

   Jordi Savall /  Austro-Hungarian  Haydn  Philharmonic

   01-04   Haydn, Sinfonie No. 78 C minor

   05-08   Haydn, Sinfonie No. 77 B flat major

   09-12   Haydn, Sinfonie No. 76 E flat major

        Haydnsaal in the Esterhazy Palace in Eisenstadt (Austria)

        September 12, 2009

[Old Listener]

Marriner could also sometimes described as "squeaky clean" but I think he offers usually more flair than the Orpheus (I still like some of his "Paris" set a lot). With some pieces as 79-81 the alternatives are so few and far between that the technically brilliant playing of the Orpheus is something to be valued. But for the remaining ones I feel pretty sure that I already own alternative recordings I prefer.

I'm considerably more positive about Orpheus than you and Gurn are in these symphonies.  The strings and especially the lower strings bring a rhythmic drive that I think is central to my enjoyment of these works.

About 79ii Gurn said

"The second movement contains its own little surprises. After an opening and development much in the mode of a Haydn Adagio, just what we expect, really, lovely tune, emphasis on the strings with a little accent here and there from the winds, Haydn suddenly shifts gears into a quite zippy little Allegretto!"

In the Orpheus performance, the really lovely tune seems quite innocent until about 1:10-2:00.  (The more I hear this movement, the earlier I hear the pulse.) Then a nervous pulse in the strings appears as a just noticeable element.  (Pulse might not be the right word.) I hear it and think that something is going to happen but I don't know what.  Things go on with the pulse popping up and becoming more obvious until about 4:00 when things change entirely and the Allegretto starts.  Orpheus play the first minute straight and introduce the nervous pulse with subtlety after that.  They play the Allegretto with vigor and in a way that connects to what came before.

About 80i, Gurn said

"This minor key work opens like a Sturm und Drang throwback, stark and a bit harsh, with the winds and strings playing an octave apart with heavy drama. ..."

Orpheus bring power and nervous energy to this movement. It isn't just a faint echo of the earlier period; it really grabs you.

That power is welcome in 80 iv as well.

As I listened this time to 79 and 80, I thought about how Haydn would have reacted to hearing the Orpheus performances.  I think he would have been delighted to have such a capable orchestra and delighted with the results they produced.  They play so well!  They understand the music! Nobody's drunk!

Of course, he might have the same reaction to a number of modern orchestras.

I'm giving my imagination a workout today.