Haydn's Haus

[Karl Henning]

Agreed.

[Jo498]

I am not sure this is true. There were only a handful or so each of Mozart's and Haydn's symphonies played in the first half of the 20th century but I think that these were played fairly regularly. There were also traditions of playing Bach's St Matthew in Lent both in Amsterdam and Leipzig (and certainly elsewhere). Similarly with Haydn's oratorios, I guess. The Salzburg festival always had a lot of Mozart, not only opera.
And it's only in the last 20 years that Haydn and Mozart are for "HIP" ensembles mainly, maybe 30 in the case of Bach and Handel.

[Gurn Blanston]

I am not sure this is true. There were only a handful or so each of Mozart's and Haydn's symphonies played in the first half of the 20th century but I think that these were played fairly regularly. There were also traditions of playing Bach's St Matthew in Lent both in Amsterdam and Leipzig (and certainly elsewhere). Similarly with Haydn's oratorios, I guess. The Salzburg festival always had a lot of Mozart, not only opera.
And it's only in the last 20 years that Haydn and Mozart are for "HIP" ensembles mainly, maybe 30 in the case of Bach and Handel.

Jo,
Oh, it's quite true. Mozart's g minor and 'Jupiter' symphonies, and a scant few of Haydn's London's. Nothing else was deemed worthwhile, and of course, they played the hell out of Mozart's d minor piano concerto, and 'The Creation saw a long life with the ebb and flow of popularity. Mostly though, Mozart was a Rococo twit and Haydn was a lightweight toady of The Prince. Don Giovanni and Die Zauberflöte also hung on quite well.

To be fair, there were always conductors who realized that the way they inherited Mozart and Haydn was not the way they were intended to be played. Thus you had Scherchen and Toscanini and such, trying to do better. But they didn't have scores to go along with their ideas. I'm not sure about Mozart, but Urtext Haydn scores didn't begin to be available until the 1960's, and then, many (most?) old line conductors didn't want anything to do with them.

[kishnevi]

This set should get more love than it seems to get.

[Gurn Blanston]

I don't know, Jeffrey, something about that link is funky. I can't get it to open no matter what I try... 

[kishnevi]

I don't know, Jeffrey, something about that link is funky. I can't get it to open no matter what I try... 

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And at $15 including s/h even Texans can afford it.

[Gurn Blanston]

[asin]B0001Y4JHK[/asin]
And at $15 including s/h even Texans can afford it.

I been busy tonight spending my discretionary capital on Vanhal, actually... 0:) 

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I shall recreate the famous Quartet Party without the recorded dialog which the estimable Revolutionary Drawing Room have appended to their otherwise brilliant concept album:

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[kishnevi]

I been busy tonight spending my discretionary capital on Vanhal, actually... 0:) 

[asin]B008N2YOQS[/asin]

Odd cover image.
Modern quartet grinning with hints of mockery at ghostly Vanhal who clearly is worried these folks are not up to the task of performing his music.

[Madiel]

Even on MI's, there is no reason they can't play Classic music less like High Romantic. Those who do become much better musicians, IMO.

Also agreed. It depends on the music/genre as to how I feel about modern instruments versus period instruments, but I definitely think that modern instrument groups need to convey as far as possible a sense of lightness and transparency.

[Karl Henning]

I am not sure this is true. There were only a handful or so each of Mozart's and Haydn's symphonies played in the first half of the 20th century but I think that these were played fairly regularly. There were also traditions of playing Bach's St Matthew in Lent both in Amsterdam and Leipzig (and certainly elsewhere). Similarly with Haydn's oratorios, I guess. The Salzburg festival always had a lot of Mozart, not only opera.
And it's only in the last 20 years that Haydn and Mozart are for "HIP" ensembles mainly, maybe 30 in the case of Bach and Handel.

The Salzburg Festival example may actually reinforce the point:  the major orchestras neglected Mozart & Haydn, and any focus upon the two was in a cultural ghetto.

[Gurn Blanston]

Odd cover image.
Modern quartet grinning with hints of mockery at ghostly Vanhal who clearly is worried these folks are not up to the task of performing his music.

Yes, it IS a bit odd; I know the players though, and they should be able to do justice to ole John the Baptist. I've never heard any of his quartets before, the rare disks have always been above my price point.

[Gurn Blanston]

Also agreed. It depends on the music/genre as to how I feel about modern instruments versus period instruments, but I definitely think that modern instrument groups need to convey as far as possible a sense of lightness and transparency.

Which is hard to do. I saw the Atlanta Symphony (Yoel Levy) do a Haydn symphony (an intro to the serious music, of course) and they were stripped down to only 40 players...    Twice the number called for, and on instruments which are intended to penetrate a modern concert hall, lightness and transparency are tough goals to achieve. 

[Karl Henning]

Which is hard to do. I saw the Atlanta Symphony (Yoel Levy) do a Haydn symphony (an intro to the serious music, of course) and they were stripped down to only 40 players...    Twice the number called for, and on instruments which are intended to penetrate a modern concert hall, lightness and transparency are tough goals to achieve. 

Yes, a challenge!  But, orchestral players in our day are frightfully good, it's a challenge they should rise to.  And, per Jens, the band benefits musically from the exercise.  (Of course, we want it to be beautiful music, and no mere exercise.)

[Gurn Blanston]

Yes, a challenge!  But, orchestral players in our day are frightfully good, it's a challenge they should rise to.  And, per Jens, the band benefits musically from the exercise.  (Of course, we want it to be beautiful music, and no mere exercise.)

Yes, and they played well, too, and I suspect they more more challenged than they were later with (easily) twice the players doing Franck's Le Chasseur maudit, which they tossed off like eating breakfast. But challenge is good.

[Gurn Blanston]

I admit, I am a big fan of the arrangements of the 7 Last Words, as well as the certainly original version and the oratorio too. This week I am looking for justice for the keyboard version. See what you think. 

Going back to the Urtext. Not just for scores anymore!

Thanks,

[The new erato]

Well Gurn, off on vacation in a couple of days time, with Vienna (a few days in the old town) and Budapest on the agenda, and a visit to Ezterhazy in Hungary and Eisentadt as well set up. Hope you're jealous.

[Karl Henning]

Sweet!  Post pics! 

[Gurn Blanston]

Well Gurn, off on vacation in a couple of days time, with Vienna (a few days in the old town) and Budapest on the agenda, and a visit to Ezterhazy in Hungary and Eisentadt as well set up. Hope you're jealous.

Damn, you know I am!!  Have a great time, don't forget Gumpendorf (just ask the cabbie), and as Karl says, post pics!!   

[The new erato]

You just reminded me I need to pack my camera.

[Madiel]

Okay, now I'd know the answer to this if I'd been paying attention in class, but...

How much does the size of the orchestra vary from Haydn's early symphonies to the late ones (Paris onwards)?

I know he had a larger orchestra in Paris, I just don't know how big the difference is. Or how much variation there was across the Esterhazy years.

The reason I'm asking is because I'm in sampling mode, and listened to some extracts of Hogwood's set on iTunes, and my first thought on trying on some works around symphonies 21 & 22 was "gosh, that sounds a bit thin". And for a minute I thought I was going to find myself in agreement with the fabled Mr Hurwitz...

But when I tried something composed a little later, and it felt like it was a fuller sound. I don't know, maybe it was just a case of my ear adjusting.

And then I listened to Symphony No.1 and it sounded really full!