Haydn's Haus

[Sergeant Rock]

The popularity, in Cleveland, of the First Viennese School based on the number of times those composers were programmed by the Cleveland Orchestra between 1921 and 2013:

Schubert 187
Haydn 207
Mozart 763
Beethoven 815

Schubert makes sense, I suppose. Only his last two symphonies (and maybe the Fifth) are heard with any regularity anywhere. Plus he composed no concertos and few other orchestral works. But Haydn, while hardly ignored, is represented by pitifully few performances relative to Mozart and Ludwig van.

Sarge

[Gurn Blanston]

Walter Riezler was a friend of Furtwänglers's (I think he had been one of his personal tutors in his youth). The book on Beethoven is his most famous, he also wrote one about Schubert; his other books are mostly on art and Greek pottery. Interestingly, he had started as as classical archaeologist and art historian and later studied music with Felix Mottl and Max Reger. (Apparently, Furtwängler's father who was a professor of archaeology (and Riezler's PhD advisor) used his assistants as tutors in cultural history for his son...).
His brother, Kurt Riezler, had some minor role as a diplomat around WW I. Both Riezler brothers are among the many cases of highly educated upper middle class Germans who started with a rather national conservative background but nevertheless collided with the Nazis in the 1930s. Walter lost his position as a director of a museum, Kurt emigrated in 1938 (because his wife was Jewish, and the daughter of the painter Max Liebermann) and was a professor in New York for some time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Riezler
(Walter has no English entry)
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Riezler

This is completely OT but still quite fascinating, I think. It gives an impression of the amazing erudition and intellectual breadth of those guys who could apparently switch between diplomatic corps and ancient Greek tracts on economy or between curating an art museum and writing books on Beethoven without missing a turn...

Sounds like an interesting man-of-many-parts. It is amazing how some people can hit on so many things and do them all well.

The popularity, in Cleveland, of the First Viennese School based on the number of times those composers were programmed by the Cleveland Orchestra between 1921 and 2013:

Schubert 187
Haydn 207
Mozart 763
Beethoven 815

Schubert makes sense, I suppose. Only his last two symphonies (and maybe the Fifth) are heard with any regularity anywhere. Plus he composed no concertos and few other orchestral works. But Haydn, while hardly ignored, is represented by pitifully few performances relative to Mozart and Ludwig van.

Sarge

Interesting stats, Sarge. I guess the only surprise is that Schubert is lower on the list than Haydn. The rationale that he wrote less doesn't really hold up, considering the narrow breadth of Haydn's works which DO get performed.

[Karl Henning]

Interesting stats, Sarge. I guess the only surprise is that Schubert is lower on the list than Haydn. The rationale that he wrote less doesn't really hold up, considering the narrow breadth of Haydn's works which DO get performed.

But much less narrow in Szell's repertory, certainly.

[Sergeant Rock]

But much less narrow in Szell's repertory, certainly.

Could've been broader (I certainly wish it had been). He conducted symphonies 7, 31, 86, 88, 92-99, 102 and 104 plus the D minor Mass, the Violin and Cello Concertos. There was more Haydn conducted by assistant and guest conductors during his tenure. What's important, I think, is that Haydn was programmed several times a year. Obviously he was an important part of the Cleveland's repertoire even though he played second fiddle to Mozart and Beethoven.

Sarge

[Gurn Blanston]

I've been saying all along that Artaria wasn't irritated with Haydn over the Opus 50 affair, but hey, let's take a look at the next set of quartets and see just how turnabout works! 

I'll put the Black Hand on you if there's a next time, Joe!

Thanks!

[Camphy]

A great read (again). Thanks!

[Gurn Blanston]

A great read (again). Thanks!

Thank you! 

I just went back through and found a critical error which 10 re-reads didn't catch when I proofed, but a single 'live' read caught immediately. Worst part was that it affected the whole train of logic... *sigh*. Well so it goes!

[Camphy]

Hah! Glad you corrected that. It took me some time to notice the substitution, although I had wondered about that earlier today. I just imagined you meant quartets written by Haydn, and received by Artaria from someone other than Haydn. So your train of thought was clear enough, but the correction certainly makes it lucid now. 

[Gurn Blanston]

Hah! Glad you corrected that. It took me some time to notice the substitution, although I had wondered about that earlier today. I just imagined you meant quartets written by Haydn, and received by Artaria from someone other than Haydn. So your train of thought was clear enough, but the correction certainly makes it lucid now. 

I embarrassed myself, since my whole train of logic to that point was suddenly switched over to a side track!    I did want it to be clear though, because 2 weeks of intensive research led to no single instance of anyone else making this connection, and I thought it was important. Still do.    Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated!

[Brian]

Down to only a dozen un-heard Haydn Symphonies!

31, 53, 56, 57, 61-63, 68, 71, 74, 76, 102

But this is according to my logs, and my logs aren't 100% accurate. For example, I'm almost positive I've heard 31 and just forgot to document it. And how can it be possible that I've never heard 102?? That's crazy! Maybe I did as a teenager and forgot.

[Sergeant Rock]

Down to only a dozen un-heard Haydn Symphonies!

31, 53, 56, 57, 61-63, 68, 71, 74, 76, 102

You're a better man than I am, Gunga Brian. It took me almost 50 years to hear them all.

Sarge

[Gurn Blanston]

Down to only a dozen un-heard Haydn Symphonies!

31, 53, 56, 57, 61-63, 68, 71, 74, 76, 102

But this is according to my logs, and my logs aren't 100% accurate. For example, I'm almost positive I've heard 31 and just forgot to document it. And how can it be possible that I've never heard 102?? That's crazy! Maybe I did as a teenager and forgot.

You're a better man than I am, Gunga Brian. It took me almost 50 years to hear them all.

Sarge

It isn't hearing all the symphonies which is hard for me (hell, I've done it just this year!), it's making notes on all of them, or on anything else I've ever heard. I'm jealous of people who can do that, or like Harry, who can tell you everything about it up whether he liked it or not!  



PS - you are doing well, Brian!

[Brian]

You're a better man than I am, Gunga Brian. It took me almost 50 years to hear them all.

Sarge

It isn't hearing all the symphonies which is hard for me (hell, I've done it just this year!), it's making notes on all of them, or on anything else I've ever heard. I'm jealous of people who can do that, or like Harry, who can tell you everything about it up whether he liked it or not!  



PS - you are doing well, Brian!

Well, Sarge, you didn't have access to Naxos Music Library, and you didn't have that ultra cheap Dennis Russell Davies box you could acquire for about $0.30 per symphony. Like Gurn says, the difficulty is listening to each symphony 2-3 times, so that I'll actually remember which ones I especially loved. Seems like it's happened a dozen times where I thought "wow this obscure random symphony is really fantastic," but then a week later, couldn't remember the # anymore. 

[Jo498]

102 must be one of he most famous "non-named" symphonies (unless one counts London as a name for all 12, not only 104 (where it is often attached but makes not much sense).
IIRC Tovey writes somewhere that he found 102, 104 and the string quartet op.77/2 Haydn's most convincing works and while I would hate to restrict myself to less than about 30 symphonies and quartets it is hard to disagree that these are all superlative pieces, even to ears "spoiled" by later, more romantic music. In any case, the first movement of 102 is one of Haydn's most "Beethovenian", and the slow movement one of the most "romantic" sounding.

[Karl Henning]

I embarrassed myself, since my whole train of logic to that point was suddenly switched over to a side track!    I did want it to be clear though, because 2 weeks of intensive research led to no single instance of anyone else making this connection, and I thought it was important. Still do.    Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated!

Bravo!

[Gurn Blanston]

Bravo!

Thanks, Karl.

[Karl Henning]

Gurn & Greg, YHHM 

[Gurn Blanston]

This week I spent some time getting together with Wenzel Schantz and talking about fortepianos. Here are all the things he told me. 

Nice to have music around the house

Check it out if you'd like,
Thanks!

[George]

Now enjoying the first 10 sonatas from the above set. Lovely playing and sound. And none of that weird noise found on the Derzhavina set. And about half the price.

[Wakefield]

Now enjoying the first 10 sonatas from the above set. Lovely playing and sound. And none of that weird noise found on the Derzhavina set. And about half the price.

All those noises are a shame. Unfortunately, I haven't found any spare time to go to my father's house (where I have stored some thousands of disks) in order to check out if my Derzhavina set is defective or not (a digital download purchased on 7digital.com before the physical copy, it's actually defective). That said, I find Derzhavina's interpretation superior to Buchbinder, who sounds a bit old-fashioned in comparison. I don't know if it's s a mania of mine, but I usually find Buchbinder's playing as too much legato, lacking in deepness and without enough separation among notes. It's hard to explain...