Haydn's Haus

[Gurn Blanston]

Thanks for this, Gurn! My interest in historic recordings comes and goes (depending on how nostalgic--or not--I'm feeling ). This one caught my attention because my experience with Haydn recordings from the heady days of the renaissance has usually been positive (e.g., Scherchen's and Goberman's symphonies, the Schneider's SQs). ..and this one is really pioneering  . Also, Swarowsky has the "lost" recording of Wagner's Ring (recently reissued on Profil) which turns out to be rather good (within its limitations).

I knew about the Bartoli recording (I think she's a great artist, and yet on occasions I can't stand her singing  ), but not the one by La Stagione.

I've located a cheap copy of the Swarowsky...I remain tempted, and if I go for it, I'll let you know it it really is that bad 

Cheers,

Thanks, Ritter. I am curious, not least because the one you linked is a 2011 digital remaster, while the incarnation my friend wrote about was certainly not, since he died in 2008. Very likely his issue was SQ, so that should be improved. Another one which he said was equally bad, although possibly for different reasons, was the one on Orfeo, which I don't know more about.

I really do like the La Stagione recording, I had it before the Hogwood and it still gets equal playing time, which was substantial recently when I wrote an essay about the opera. The fact that it was completed in May, 1791, and premiered in Florence in c.1950 is totally amazing when you hear how fine it is. Oh well.

Cheers,

[mc ukrneal]

A few years ago, I asked another old Haydnisto about recordings of that opera. He had every one of them, so...  He told me not to spend any time or money on that one, because it was easily the worst of the lot, and very difficult to find at the time. Thus I never did.

I actually heard the first act (maybe two) not so long ago. My impressions were: a) Singing quite mixed (from not so great to quite good), b) Sound was pretty bad, c) Good energy and spirit (in chorus and orchestra), and d) quite rough around the edges.  It would definitely not be a first choice, but could be of interest for historical reasons.

I much prefer the Bartoli that Gurn posted above.

[kishnevi]

My turn

Paris Symphonies OAE Kuijken
Creation McCreesh and company
String Quartets Op. 76 Qu. Mosaiques
Piano Trios 39, 43-45 Trio Wanderer

[Madiel]

Yes, when they were in boxes of three.   One of the sad things about the first re-release came when I was told that the "liner notes" consisted of a track listing....

Let me know if you drop the hammer though, and I can send you the entire 10 volumes of liner notes contained in a single very handy pdf. It's a deal maker as far as the box set goes.

Heck, send it to me before I drop the hammer if you're willing. I would love them.

EDIT: I was just looking at discogs... wow, they were thick books and short CDs. At least, the volume I was just looking at. Almost every Haydn symphony disc I own fits 3 symphonies per disc, this was only 2 on each disc.

[Jo498]

I wonder if some of the earlier volumes even appeared as LP as well. Otherwise some of the shortish (around 60 min) playing times might stem from the fact that Hogwood does many repeats others skip and the chronological order often does not allow using a shorter work from another period as "filler". And in the 1990s discs were usually capped around 70 min. Longer playing times were possible but 75-82 min discs became far more frequent in the last 10 years.

As far as I recall they were also full price, so you were bound to pay about $45-50 for a single Volume in the mid-1990s.

[Gurn Blanston]

Heck, send it to me before I drop the hammer if you're willing. I would love them.

EDIT: I was just looking at discogs... wow, they were thick books and short CDs. At least, the volume I was just looking at. Almost every Haydn symphony disc I own fits 3 symphonies per disc, this was only 2 on each disc.

OK, when I get home tonight.

Oh yes, 2 symphonies per disk, except for Volume 1 which has some shorter works where they put more on. L'Oiseau Lyre was rather famous for being a super deluxe label which didn't place cost ahead of... cost!     OTOH, I am very fond of every disk I have on that label. They feel like luxuries.

[Gurn Blanston]

I wonder if some of the earlier volumes even appeared as LP as well. Otherwise some of the shortish (around 60 min) playing times might stem from the fact that Hogwood does many repeats others skip and the chronological order often does not allow using a shorter work from another period as "filler". And in the 1990s discs were usually capped around 70 min. Longer playing times were possible but 75-82 min discs became far more frequent in the last 10 years.

As far as I recall they were also full price, so you were bound to pay about $45-50 for a single Volume in the mid-1990s.

I am almost sure I have seen 1 or 2 volumes on LP, those wonderful L'OL boxes!  And you are right about the chronology. If it was a tight fit, they wouldn't be able to keep within their overall model by placing something out of position.

[Jo498]

One should also recall that those discs were not particularly short for the early/mid 1990s when a) at least some discs still appeared on LP, so 55 min or so was considered acceptable b) there were some technical difficulties (at least with some players) with compact discs playing >75 min and c) one was still used to paying twice full price for a two-disc-set with a 80-90 min work like Bruckner's 8th...
So while no bargains (and apparently they did not sell all that well) these Haydn sets were nothing outlandish 20 years ago.

[Brian]

Haydn 2032 Vol. 3 (Symphonies 4, 42, 64) confirmed for August. Cover image is ... sand dunes?
https://www.outhere-music.com/en/albums/upcoming

EDIT: Haydn 2032, not Haydn 2013!

EDIT II: And while I'm posting about it...

Vol. 4 "Il Distratto"
Symphonies 12, 60, 70
Cimarosa: Il Maestro di Cappella

Vol. 5 - live concerts planned, recordings to happen in conjunction
Symphonies 19, 80, 81
J.M. Kraus: a symphony (different symphonies are being performed at different concerts)
once concert includes Haydn aria sung by Nuria Rial

[Karl Henning]

Haydn 2013 Vol. 3 (Symphonies 4, 42, 64) confirmed for August. Cover image is ... sand dunes?

The Haydn Symphony project must flow . . . .

[North Star]

The Haydn Symphony project must flow . . . .

Or it's all dried up. .

[Gurn Blanston]

Haydn 2032 Vol. 3 (Symphonies 4, 42, 64) confirmed for August. Cover image is ... sand dunes?
https://www.outhere-music.com/en/albums/upcoming

EDIT: Haydn 2032, not Haydn 2013!

EDIT II: And while I'm posting about it...

Vol. 4 "Il Distratto"
Symphonies 12, 60, 70
Cimarosa: Il Maestro di Cappella

Vol. 5 - live concerts planned, recordings to happen in conjunction
Symphonies 19, 80, 81
J.M. Kraus: a symphony (different symphonies are being performed at different concerts)
once concert includes Haydn aria sung by Nuria Rial

I wish it was 'Haydn 2017'...

Thanks for the info, Brian. I hope I live long enough to see this project to the end. 

[Madiel]

One should also recall that those discs were not particularly short for the early/mid 1990s when a) at least some discs still appeared on LP, so 55 min or so was considered acceptable b) there were some technical difficulties (at least with some players) with compact discs playing >75 min and c) one was still used to paying twice full price for a two-disc-set with a 80-90 min work like Bruckner's 8th...
So while no bargains (and apparently they did not sell all that well) these Haydn sets were nothing outlandish 20 years ago.

Your memories of the 1990s seem to be a bit different from mine. Still on LP? Really? In the early 1990s I was buying pop music LPs for one dollar because they were so thoroughly on the way out and the shop was desperate to get rid of them. I received my first CD player as a present in Christmas 1991 and we were way behind most people.

My set of London symphonies, released in 1994, has discs of 75, 75, 75 and 76 minutes. I'm sure I have plenty of others of that length from that period, and I was always told that the technical limitation was about 78 minutes. So I find myself extremely skeptical about any claim that it was consistently not possible for a 3rd symphony to be added.

[Gurn Blanston]

Your memories of the 1990s seem to be a bit different from mine. Still on LP? Really? In the early 1990s I was buying pop music LPs for one dollar because they were so thoroughly on the way out and the shop was desperate to get rid of them. I received my first CD player as a present in Christmas 1991 and we were way behind most people.

My set of London symphonies, released in 1994, has discs of 75, 75, 75 and 76 minutes. I'm sure I have plenty of others of that length from that period, and I was always told that the technical limitation was about 78 minutes. So I find myself extremely skeptical about any claim that it was consistently not possible for a 3rd symphony to be added.

I think that L'OL put 2 on a disk simply because they wanted to. There were very probably some occasional limitations with the chronology, I agree wit that, but overall, if they had wished to make these 2 disk sets, it would have been easy as could be.

My 10 boxes take 32cm of shelf space. (12.8"). That's a lot for 30 disks.

[Madiel]

Blockhead that I am, I only just thought to see if Hogwood's set was on my preferred streaming service, Deezer.

It is. Giving Volume 1 a whirl now. I don't rely on streaming services, but they're excellent as a means of assessing whether I want to purchase something. I did do some iTunes sampling a while back, but why not listen to some complete tracks and confirm?

[Parsifal]

My set of London symphonies, released in 1994, has discs of 75, 75, 75 and 76 minutes. I'm sure I have plenty of others of that length from that period, and I was always told that the technical limitation was about 78 minutes. So I find myself extremely skeptical about any claim that it was consistently not possible for a 3rd symphony to be added.

The original technical specification of the CD had a 74 minute limit. That was in 1982. By the 1990's CD production and player performance made it possible to stretch this, eventually to 80 minutes or even a bit more. But I remember there was some concern at the time that older players might fail on discs that pushed the limit too much.

Aside from that, Jo498's main point is well taken. For a classical recording the cost of pressing the disc is very small compared with the cost of producing the music. Their business model at the time was for selling music in 45-55 minute increments. They couldn't remain profitable by selling in 80 minute increments without increasing the price proportionately. Probably they thought the public would find that unpalatable.

[Jo498]

As I explained, I think it was a combination of factors. It was not impossible to have long discs; I bought a Bruckner 5 at 76 min in 89 or 90 (and I also have the first CD issue of Bernstein's Concertgebouw Missa solemnis with  81 min. on two full priced discs).

But in the Hogwood series they apparently had meticulously planned it out as 15 3 disc sets in chronological order. Very obviously getting as much music on a disc (or even into a 3 disc set) as possible was not a main objective. I am looking at Vol. 2 with early pieces and there are 3, 4 and 3 symphonies on each disc with playing times from 54 to 64 minutes. Obviously with those shorter pieces at least two more could have been crammed on the set. But then there might not have been enough for Vol.3 without messing up the
And if you do a lot of repeats, some of the symphonies will last about 30 min instead of 22-25 and then, if there is no chronologically fitting shorter piece you could not put 3 symphonies on a disc at 79 min.

LPs were fading fast in the early 1990s, that's true. (My memory about record stores still being full of LPs as well as CDs might be a little before that time, more 1988 than 92.) I am not positive that any of the Hogwood series ever appeared on LP. But if the early ones did or if during the planning this was still an option, it would be another factor for shorter playing times.

In any case there were still a lot of LP length CDs and expensive double/triple sets around in the early to mid 1990s so that the Hogwood series would not have appeared an outlandishly priced luxury item. Pricey yes, but not out of the range. They failed to sell well enough and the series was abandoned so maybe they were too expensive in a sense after all. But those were common miscalculations when the CD boom of the mid-late 1980s had ebbed in the mid 1990s.

[Scion7]

He was probed!!!     

[Gurn Blanston]

He was probed!!!     

+1 

[Scion7]

The complete silence from Hollywood and the total lack of response from Pinewood Studios to the "bait" I have posted in so public a forum for my idea of a sci-fi/historical drama on Haydn has been a crushing blow.