Pierre Boulez (1925-2016)

[Ken B]

I'm surprised at how often the notion of "Frenchness" seems to come up in this discussion.  Perhaps there is similar concern over the "Americanness" of Carter or Feldman, or the "Germanness" of Stockhousen in their respective threads, but I certainly haven't noticed it to this extent.  For those who have brought it up, could you perhaps discuss why it is important to you?

I mentioned it but it has no importance for me, as Boulez as a composer matters to me not at all. But there is something about the sound nonetheless.

[kishnevi]

I'm surprised at how often the notion of "Frenchness" seems to come up in this discussion.  Perhaps there is similar concern over the "Americanness" of Carter or Feldman, or the "Germanness" of Stockhousen in their respective threads, but I certainly haven't noticed it to this extent.  For those who have brought it up, could you perhaps discuss why it is important to you?

And, s'il vous plait, what is "Frenchness" in music? 

[snyprrr]

Partially, at least for now, 'French' means 'colour', and on the basic level it's supposed to be different from the 'German' model which tends to be more 'serious', meaning, it's not so in to 'colour'.

Maybe a better way would be to simply compare Debussy and Brahms- THERE!, there's the difference you can see. Brahms writes in the traditional Germanic styles; Debussy seeks the whole-tone scale.

And we didn't even have to write a book!

btw- so, Boulez's 'Livre pour Quatuor' is a GERMANIC work by a FRENCH Composer... well, i can't think of a German Composer who acts French (off the top), hmm,... but, I'm glad you all understand and we can move on!!

[Karl Henning]

Partially, at least for now, 'French' means 'colour', and on the basic level it's supposed to be different from the 'German' model which tends to be more 'serious', meaning, it's not so in to 'colour'.

Maybe a better way would be to simply compare Debussy and Brahms- THERE!, there's the difference you can see. Brahms writes in the traditional Germanic styles; Debussy seeks the whole-tone scale.

You're onto something.  I don't think that Brahms is at all "colorless," but I think of the French manner as a lightness and clarity of color, a delicacy, and a greater transparency of texture.

[San Antone]

I think the French have shown an affinity for the "exotic" (Boulez being no exception, e.g. gamelan sounds).  Debussy's whole tone scales and non-functional harmonies as a method of luxuriating in the sound for long-ish periods, Messiaen's interest in Indian rhythms to say nothing of his use of birdsong; Ravel's orchestral deployment of percussion (a mastery of orchestration seems to be something of a specialty for French composers) and then there is the entire spectral school, which is made up in the majority of French composers.

All of this adds up to a preoccupation with instrumental color and texture for its own sake.

[kishnevi]

btw- so, Boulez's 'Livre pour Quatuor' is a GERMANIC work by a FRENCH Composer... well, i can't think of a German Composer who acts French (off the top), hmm,... but, I'm glad you all understand and we can move on!!

Wagner and Bruckner....

that would also apply to Sanantonio's formulation.

Boulez as the anti-Bruckner....hmm, that might actually work.

[Joaquimhock]

Le visage nuptial on Medici (Orchestre philharmonique de radio France, Pascal Rophé; 25 february 2014)

http://fr.medici.tv/#!/pascal-rophe-pierre-boulez-orchestre-philharmonique-de-radio-france

[EigenUser]

Sorry to be a little bit off-topic, but does anyone have any idea why he insists on (mis)pronouncing his name as Boulezzz?

[North Star]

Sorry to be a little bit off-topic, but does anyone have any idea why he insists on (mis)pronouncing his name as Boulezzz?

Pardon, how should it be pronounced if not like that?

[Ken B]

Sorry to be a little bit off-topic, but does anyone have any idea why he insists on (mis)pronouncing his name as Boulezzz?

Pronouncing such final letters is not uncommon with French names. Duras, Saint-Saens pronounce the s. Berlioz. For one thing, names can have different origins so can vary wildly.  I believe Francaix pronounced the x, the town of Aix does.

[EigenUser]

Pardon, how should it be pronounced if not like that?

In French, the ez-sound is pronounced like ay. So, the traditional pronunciation of his name would be Boul-ay. Not that I have a problem with it, but I find it very intriguing especially because he seems very French.

[EigenUser]

Pronouncing such final letters is not uncommon with French names. Duras, Saint-Saens pronounce the s. Berlioz. For one thing, names can have different origins so can vary wildly.  I believe Francaix pronounced the x, the town of Aix does.

I didn't know this. Thanks!

[North Star]

In French, the ez-sound is pronounced like ay. So, the traditional pronunciation of his name would be Boul-ay. Not that I have a problem with it, but I find it very intriguing especially because he seems very French.

Pronouncing such final letters is not uncommon with French names. Duras, Saint-Saens pronounce the s. Berlioz. For one thing, names can have different origins so can vary wildly.  I believe Francaix pronounced the x, the town of Aix does.

I thought you might mean this. 
(now, Mussorgsky's spelling and pronunciation, OTOH...)

[not edward]

I believe it's a regional variation, and the -ez is pronounced that way in many of the more southern parts of France, where his family was from.

[Cato]

I believe it's a regional variation, and the -ez is pronounced that way in many of the more southern parts of France, where his family was from.

Langue d'oc in southern France vs. Langue d'oïl in the north?

[Joaquimhock]

Sorry to be a little bit off-topic, but does anyone have any idea why he insists on (mis)pronouncing his name as Boulezzz?

It's a matter or tradition and/or regional habits. The -ez is very common in the region of Auvergne were Boulez was born, for instance in the "Monts du Forez" and according to local inhabitants, some pronounce it é in the east and some ez in the west...
Many ending letters are not pronounced in modern french, but generally they have not been added for nothing, once upon a time it was pronounced or it comes from the latin form.


Personally I've never heard the X pronounced in Jean Françaix (and Ive ever listened too much to his music ;-)

[ritter]

The easy rule is: Boulez rimes with Fez...  .

As for Francaix, I have read that the "x" should be pronounced, but then once in a video on the webpage of France's Institut National de l'Audiovisuel  (http://www.ina.fr)--where there's a wealth of material from France's television--I heard it pronounced without the "x"...

[Joaquimhock]

The easy rule is: Boulez rimes with Fez...  .

As for Francaix, I have read that the "x" should be pronounced, but then once in a video on the webpage of France's Institut National de l'Audiovisuel  (http://www.ina.fr)--where there's a wealth of material from France's television--I heard it pronounced without the "x"...

My advice is to not pronouce the X... if you do, people will hear Fran-sex...

[ritter]

My advice is to not pronouce the X... if you do, people will hear Fran-sex...

Yeah, and regardless of the fact of whether one likes Françaix or not, "sexy" is not a word that comes to mind...

[lescamil]

Back on topic, here, have a concert:

http://www.medici.tv/#!/pascal-rophe-pierre-boulez-orchestre-philharmonique-de-radio-france