Schubert Piano Recordings

[George]

I already have it on order, but it hasn't come yet...

For modern piano, Radu Lupu is probably my favorite with these pieces.

Although I prefer Richter's Schubert, I have grown to appreciate Lupu's work with a variety of composers works. Especially Beethoven and Brahms.

[Bunny]

Also I am very impressed with historical Schnabel/Emi for Schubert Impromptus, the sound quality is very good and price is super low......

I haven't listened to Schnabel in so many years!  He was great. period.

Although I prefer Richter's Schubert, I have grown to appreciate Lupu's work with a variety of composers works. Especially Beethoven and Brahms.

I think Lupu's Schubert is his strong point. 

Btw, thinking of the Staier Schubert disc reminds me that I also have the Impromptus done by Lambert Orkis on fortepiano.  It will interesting to compare this to the Staier recording.  Orkis is a venerable pianist, both on modern piano and fortepiano but I think Staier will have the edge.

[George]

I haven't listened to Schnabel in so many years!  He was great. period.

Amen.

I think Lupu's Schubert is his strong point. 

I've only heard his Impromptus and while they were good, they didn't stand out from the pack. Pires plays them the way I like them and she's blessed with great sound.

[Bunny]

Amen.

I've only heard his Impromptus and while they were good, they didn't stand out from the pack. Pires plays them the way I like them and she's blessed with great sound.

I have Pires' recording of the Beethoven violin sonatas (with Dumay) which is very, very good; but I have resisted the Schubert because it is molto caro and I'm not sure that it's quite what I'm looking for. 

I'd love to find that Emmanuel Ax has finally recorded the impromptus, but I'm afraid that the only way you can hear him do any of them is as an encore during a concert.  I heard him do the D.935/2 in A flat that just entranced the audience and the Wiener Philharmoniker one night.  Not just polite bow tapping, he received applause and  foot thumping approval.  If you ever hear of a bootleg of that, please let me know.

[George]

I have Pires' recording of the Beethoven violin sonatas (with Dumay) which is very, very good; but I have resisted the Schubert because it is molto caro and I'm not sure that it's quite what I'm looking for.

I looked for a translation of this and all I found was "very dear." Can you say more?

I'd love to find that Emmanuel Ax has finally recorded the impromptus, but I'm afraid that the only way you can hear him do any of them is as an encore during a concert.  I heard him do the D.935/2 in A flat that just entranced the audience and the Wiener Philharmoniker one night.  Not just polite bow tapping, he received applause and  foot thumping approval.  If you ever hear of a bootleg of that, please let me know.

Will do.

[Bunny]

I looked for a translation of this and all I found was "very dear." Can you say more?

Will do.

Sorry for the Italian, but it would seem that I've been reading too much Lucia (E.F. Benson) lately.

"Dear" in England as in France and Italy (cher and caro) means expensive.  Need I say more?

and Thanks.

[George]

Sorry for the Italian, but it would seem that I've been reading too much Lucia (E.F. Benson) lately.

"Dear" in England as in France and Italy (cher and caro) means expensive.  Need I say more?

and Thanks.

Gotcha.

You have mail.

[Mandryka]

The Russians did the Impromptus well.

I know we don't normally think of Horowitz as a Schubertian, but this Impromptu seems pretty good to me:

http://www.youtube.com/v/L6_SbflSwAg


V.V. Sofronitsky -- I think he's at his greatest in Schubert

http://www.youtube.com/v/PL6gZ0vMIlQ


And Yudina is distinctive-- an aquired taste maybe

http://www.youtube.com/v/u0wxh0yKVQw

Schubert from Chille is nice too.

http://www.youtube.com/v/6IIF8ryBgV8

[Sergeant Rock]

That's a disappointingly uninsightful response, considering that a few months ago, both in PMs and "in public", we conversed about this particular topic and you stated that I had opened up some views for you into aspects of musical "idiom" and "idiomatic" performance and were eager to explore this territory further.

The "mainstream" comment meant that I have yet to read a review of a recording of this symphony which doesn't mention the Kleiber recording which really gets this piece "right" on so many levels that it is one of the few examples of a performance of anything that I would not hesitate to call "definitive", and a lot of other informed listeners think so, too. So it seems to be an integral part of any review of this piece to mention that recording, ususally as a negative comparison, apparently to demonstrate their "independent" views. We have a lot of posts in tis forum which are based on the assumption that citicizing whatever is perceived by many as outstanding automatically (no mattter if the criticism is actually based on deeper understanding) secures the review some kind of "expert status". That may be just my impression, of course.

This is one of M's typically snide and condescending replies that so characterized his time here. His assertions are also bullshit. Kleiber's Schubert Third is very controversial. Always has been. You can't get more mainstream than Gramophone and two of its reviewers think Kleiber's Schubert is far from idiomatic let alone definitive. I didn't respond to this post when M was here because the mods asked me not to engage with M...at least not in the manner I had been    I could not have stayed as cool as Barak    Anyway, here's the mainstream opinion:

On the evidence of this record Carlos Kleiber is nothing like so good a conductor of Schubert as he is of Beethoven. The Unfinished goes well enough, if you do not mind both movements being taken pretty swiftly; it certainly allows him to emphasize the dramatic aspect of parts of the first movement. But the lyrical side of the music suffers, especially the slow movement, and one gets the impression of a temperament too restless to be ideal in Schubert. Sir Georg Solti, also with the VPO and coupled with Schubert's Fifth on the Decca disc, is greatly to be preferred.

But the really surprising things from Kleiber happen in the Third Symphony. In his 1979 review RO puts them concisely; and as I entirely agree I shall merely quote him. "Most controversial of all is Kleiber's extraordinarily rapid reading of the Third Symphony's Allegretto and his up-grading of the Menuetlo vivace into a rip-roaring Scherzo". Quite—which is why I cannot regard him as a natural Schubertian. T. H.

Now, having said that, I have to admit I love Kleiber's Third but not because I find it particularly idiomatic but rather because it isn't...it's unusual and individual, like so many of that conductor's performances.

Sarge

[DarkAngel]

Although I prefer Richter's Schubert, I have grown to appreciate Lupu's work with a variety of composers works. Especially Beethoven and Brahms.

Placed a small order this morning for late Schubert sonatas which may get your approval:
Unfortunately as Bunny would say these were a bit molto caro....

 

[George]

Placed a small order this morning for late Schubert sonatas which may get your approval:
Unfortunately as Bunny would say these were a bit molto caro....

 

Really? That's a shame. That Regis CD was budget priced for as long as I can remember. Anyway, it's a great CD. If you like what you hear, I suggest getting this one next:



It's got the best D894, 575 & 840 I have ever heard. Link to amazon sellers

And if you want to go from there, these are the best Richter Schubert sonata recordings that I have found (I recently reviewed all of the available Richter Schubert Sonata recordings (this was prior to the Hungary box set.))

D 960 Prague - 1972 - Praga
D 958 Salzburg - 1972 - Regis
D 894 London - 1989 - Philips/Decca (Philips has slightly better sound)
D 850 Prague - 1956 - Praga (better sound than Music and Arts)
D 845 Moscow - 1957 - Living Stage (better sound than Urania)
D 840 Salzburg - 1979 - Philips/Decca (Philips has slightly better sound)
D 784 Tokyo - 1979 - Regis
D 664 Paris - 1963 - EMI
D 625 Munich - 1978 - Victor/Japan
D 575 Florence - 1966 - Philips/Decca (Philips has slightly better sound)
D 566 Moscow - 1978 - Brilliant Classics

More details can be found in this thread. I start with D 960 and work backwards chronologically.

[Antoine Marchand]

I recently ordered -as soon as I could find it- this promising and elusive 13-CD Brilliant Classics set, licensed by Denon. I have high hopes on Michel Dalberto.

An informative Amazon five-stars review:

For Schubert Piano Music Completists--A Treasure Chest Overflowing with First-Rate Performances, July 28, 2009
By Dace Gisclard (Houston, TX) -
 
About four years ago, BRILLIANT announced its re-release of Michel Dalberto's distinguished Schubert series (recorded for DENON in 1989 to 1995). However, it wasn't offered on AMAZON (it took nearly a year for my local CD store to get a copy for me), but at last, this well-rounded omnibus is showing up here.

This brimful box contains ALL the sonatas and unfinished sonata movements, the Impromptus, Moments Musicaux, posthumous Klavierstucke, and Wanderer Fantasy, plus a selection of dances and shorter pieces--not ALL the piano music, but a large hatful! Discussing every performance is impractical, but suffice it to say that Dalberto is an acutely insightful Schubertian who alternates wit with pensiveness, virility with lyricism--worthy of mention in the same breath with Kempff, Brendel, and Lupu. He penetrates the depths of this music, projecting an awareness of the presence of cosmic secrets just out of reach beyond the veil imposed by mortal faculties--an indispensable trait of great Schubert playing. His accents and rhythm are strong (yet not brutal or unyielding), his rubato is spontaneous but not fussy, his tone, expressively nuanced, and his observation of detail, scrupulous. He does not present Schubert as a facile producer of "pretty tunes", but as a many-sided poet capable of both infectious joy and brooding melancholy. In the complete sonata movements, at least, Dalberto takes all the repeats, but not always in the incomplete ones (more about this later).

Some might prefer a brisker pace in some of the earlier sonatas (D664 or D568). Dalberto is not alone in emphasizing the gravitas in these works (i.e., Pollini), although this is NOT to say he consistently favors slow tempi. He projects Schubert's affability, but the disquiet and alienation in the later works are fully realized, and he sustains their immense structures convincingly. Agogic and dynamic stresses take their proper places not as individual details, but as articulating factors of musical sentences. Thus does a true Schubertian aid the listener in perceiving the underlying coherence of this composer's excursive paragraphs. In the first movement of the Sonata in G, Dalberto captures a feeling of other-worldliness, holding time in breathless suspension. No single gesture stands out as an event to be relished merely for its own sake. Rather, each is carefully weighted in rhythm and dynamics, with the object of sustaining Schubert's vast spans of musical space--not that Dalberto rushes through, heedlessly ignoring details. Rather, each is given its due, but only as a member of the "long line". It is not for nothing that parallels have been drawn between Schubert and Bruckner, and even Sibelius.

A FEW STATISTICS AND CAVEATS:
1.) Some may find the early DDD sound a bit bright. Reducing the treble solves this nicely.

2.) Modern scholarship groups certain "homeless" movements to make more or less "complete" sonatas. Dalberto plays them ALL, except for two early versions found in Henle (Schiff includes only a few). Dalberto also doesn't play the D-flat Sonata D567, but this is really just an earlier version of D568.

3.) I take exception to Dalberto's policy regarding incomplete movements. (These are: D279/346--IV; D571/604/570--I and IV; D613/612--I and III; D625/505--I and IV; D840--III and IV.) With one exception, it seems his guiding principle is to avoid playing a single note not composed by Schubert. It's not THAT but HOW he does this that is a bone of contention I'll pick later. At this point, perhaps a word about Paul Badura-Skoda's performing editions (Henle edition, Vol.III, 1976) might be helpful: In the 1970's, RCA issued his LP's of the sonatas, which included his own idiomatically Schubertian "conjectural completions" of all nine fragmentary movements. The AMAZON reviews of his re-recordings for ARCANA are not definite on this point, but the ARCANA recordings may also include these "completions" (I tried to insert a product link here to the complete set, but AMAZON wouldn't allow it--try searching for "Badura-Skoda Schubert Arcana"). Although the complete set is discontinued, copies of the individual volumes can still be found on AMAZON: (Schubert: Les Sonates pour le Pianoforte, 1; Schubert: Les Sonates pour le Pianoforte, 2; Schubert: Les Sonates pour le Pianoforte, 3).

But back to Dalberto--sometimes, he stops dead where Schubert did. Whether one regards this as "fidelity" or "purism", it is a respected tradition. My most strenuous objections are to cases where Dalberto throws out the baby with the bath water, discarding several measures of authentic Schubert. This strikes me less like "fidelity" and more like "censorship." In the Allegretto D346 (possibly an incomplete finale for D279) Dalberto halts at measure 115. Presumably, this is because it is the last tonic cadence before the "completion" begins, but he thereby jettisons 16 measures of genuine Schubert!

Dalberto's oddest excision is in the Menuetto of D840, the "Reliquie." Following Schubert's sketch, Badura-Skoda's elegant transition to the Trio starts in the key of A, then passes, in a Neapolitan relationship, to A-flat, paving the way in a clever and very Schubertian way to G-sharp minor (the enharmonic parallel minor of A-flat) for the Trio. Dalberto, however, is content to cut the Gordian knot, and jumps from an E-major chord to G-sharp minor for the Trio! Whether or not one regards this as stylistically appropriate, the sketch makes it plain that Schubert intended to continue in A. To me, the effect is unstylistic and disjunct, made worse by the fact that the Trio begins in unharmonized bare octaves. Further, the six measures of Schubert's authentic right-hand part are lost. Dalberto ends the movement on the same E major chord from which he jumped earlier. Puzzlingly, he DOES play Badura-Skoda's edition of the finale of D625/505 complete. Presumably, this is because despite a 70-measure lacuna in the left hand part of the recapitulation (which can be deduced easily from the corresponding passage in the exposition), the bar-to-bar structure is complete.

4.) As pleased as I am with Dalberto's set, he'd surely be the first to admit that no one artist can have the last word on so much music! There are certain other recordings I would not want to be without:

a.) Paolo Bordoni's disarmingly lovely complete waltzes (Schubert: Complete Waltzes - Paolo Bordoni) are an inexpensive "must-have". Dalberto does not play D770 and D365 complete, and I find his rubato in these dances a little eccentric. He duplicates only a third of Bordoni's CD's, so Bordoni's set is worth snapping up for his beguiling way with these small precious jewels.

b.) In the Impromptu in G-flat, I find Dalberto too quick, inflexible, and dryly pedaled--one of his vanishingly few miscalculations. An inexpensive alternative is Radu Lupu's CD of the Impromptus (Schubert: Impromptus D 899 & D 935 / Radu Lupu). His playing is enchanting, especially in the G-flat major piece, and the sound is natural and sweet.

Despite my caveats, hearty thanks to BRILLIANT for reissuing this superb series. However one may feel about this or that editorial point, it would be a shame to bypass so much top-notch Schubert playing. At present, there's no better way to collect so many first-rate performances of Schubert's piano music for so little cash. This is an excellent buy, which could form the cornerstone of a collection of Schubert piano music--highly recommended.

[Bunny]

Really? That's a shame. That Regis CD was budget priced for as long as I can remember. Anyway, it's a great CD. If you like what you hear, I suggest getting this one next:



It's got the best D894, 575 & 840 I have ever heard. Link to amazon sellers

And if you want to go from there, these are the best Richter Schubert sonata recordings that I have found (I recently reviewed all of the available Richter Schubert Sonata recordings (this was prior to the Hungary box set.))

D 960 Prague - 1972 - Praga
D 958 Salzburg - 1972 - Regis
D 894 London - 1989 - Philips/Decca (Philips has slightly better sound)
D 850 Prague - 1956 - Praga (better sound than Music and Arts)
D 845 Moscow - 1957 - Living Stage (better sound than Urania)
D 840 Salzburg - 1979 - Philips/Decca (Philips has slightly better sound)
D 784 Tokyo - 1979 - Regis
D 664 Paris - 1963 - EMI
D 625 Munich - 1978 - Victor/Japan
D 575 Florence - 1966 - Philips/Decca (Philips has slightly better sound)
D 566 Moscow - 1978 - Brilliant Classics

More details can be found in this thread. I start with D 960 and work backwards chronologically.

DarkAngel,

Those DG Richter discs have been available at YourMusic.com for a bit.  I think I also picked up the Perahia Schubert there as well, but that was years and years ago.  While I am a fan of the 2 earlier sonatas, the D.960 was a little too delicate for my taste.  Instead, if you can look for Leif Ove Andsnes's EMI recording of the Late Sonatas which were previously released in single recordings of the sonatas coupled with lieder sung by Ian Bostridge.  Andsnes D.960 is excellent and very close in feeling to Wilhelm Kempff's reading.

[DarkAngel]

Instead, if you can look for Leif Ove Andsnes's EMI recording of the Late Sonatas which were previously released in single recordings of the sonatas coupled with lieder sung by Ian Bostridge.  Andsnes D.960 is excellent and very close in feeling to Wilhelm Kempff's reading.

I follow Andsnes very closely and already picked up that 2CD Schubert set you mention some time ago, nice value and I enjoy his style very much

Also regarding George's Richter obsession and recommendations........
I find it is often much cheaper when buying Brilliant and Regis label to order from UK (Presto or MDT) so another follow up order has been placed:

 

[Bunny]

I follow Andsnes very closely and already picked up that 2CD Schubert set you mention some time ago, nice value and I enjoy his style very much

Also regarding George's Richter obsession and recommendations........
I find it is often much cheaper when buying Brilliant and Regis label to order from UK (Presto or MDT) so another follow up order has been placed:

 

A perfect opportunity to also pick up the Koopman Messiah.

[DarkAngel]

A perfect opportunity to also pick up the Koopman Messiah.

Ha ha.........you know me too well, that also made its way into the buy basket

[George]

Also regarding George's Richter obsession......

I don't know what you are talking about, sir. 

[Opus106]

Here's another PI performance of the Impromptus and the Moment musicaux. Melvyn Tan plays. Has anyone had a listen?

[George]

Here's another PI performance of the Impromptus and the Moment musicaux. Melvyn Tan plays. Has anyone had a listen?

The samples aren't working so well for me. 

[DarkAngel]

Here's another PI performance of the Impromptus and the Moment musicaux. Melvyn Tan plays. Has anyone had a listen?

Best period instrument I have heard is the expensive new Andreas Staier using replica Graf fortepiano......but only small selection of impromptus, samples here

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Franz-Schubert-Klaviersonate-D-894/hnum/2097384: