Audience lack of courtesy/respect

[(poco) Sforzando]

Hahaha I'm in total agreement. I guess I should rephrase this: "For a trite romantic piece, with a mediocre performance, isn't one minute of clapping enough?"

How much clapping should be allowed for a superb Romantic piece in an exciting performance? Two minutes? Should the management project a large clock with a second hand on the back of the stage so the audience does not exceed its allotted time?

[paulb]

Be careful not to step on the feet of the audience members who prefer to remain in their seats listening. They might not appreciate your courage and/or disgust.

Hopefully all the ones went specifically to hear their "dear old most adorable Schumann" will have left at intermission and leave the 2nd half to myself and a  few others to hear the 2nd half of the concert, Pettersson's  13th. A experience which i paid dearly for, as i had to sit through a  "trite romantic standard, and a  mediocre performance" in the 1st half.

Right on Andy.

besides which ,most american audiences do not  possess the emotional, intellectual capacity to grasp nor feel Pettersson. Not to the degree the music should move ones depths. btw i have some 15 yrs of Jungian reading behind me, I'm no greenie in knowing certain  cultures characteristics.

[paulb]

How much clapping should be allowed for a superb Romantic piece in an exciting performance? Two minutes?

Let me ask, do you clap at home after hearing one of the 60+ recordings of the Schumann. What i mean to say does the music, everytime you hear it, just make you want to jump and shout?
Schnittke's music does this, every single time. Schnittke though dead, yet lives.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Let me ask, do you clap at home after hearing one of the 60+ recordings of the Schumann. What i mean to say does the music, everytime you hear it, just make you want to jump and shout?
Schnittke's music does this, every single time. Schnittke though dead, yet lives.

As it happens, the Schumann piano concerto is one of those popular warhorses I really don't care for. I think Schumann is just note-spinning in the piece most of the time. But your contempt for "dear old most adorable Schumann" suggests to me that you have neither heard nor experienced the ardor and beauty of his best work - things like the Dichterliebe, the Carnaval, the C major Fantasy for piano, the slow movement of the 2nd symphony, the whole of the 4th, and more. I would probably go to hear some Schnittke or Pettersson live (though I'd sooner go to hear Boulez or Carter), but I would not throw away Schumann, Beethoven, Verdi, Dvorak, or any of the other major composers you so smugly dismiss. We only have one life to experience the world, and your dogmatic rejection of some of the world's finest music suggests to me that you are the one who prefers to reside in a prison of his own making, not I.

[Cato]

Here in Ohio I have heard concerts in Toledo, Cleveland, and Cincinnati, as well as in Ann Arbor, Michigan where foreign orchestras played (e.g. Berlin Philharmonic).  I cannot say that I frequently go to concerts, but certainly the discourteous behavior mentioned in the NYP story has never been obvious here.

On the other hand disease-level solipsism is obvious too often in many places: as a teacher with 4 decades behind me I can attest that this is probably the result of the "self-esteem" movement being misinterpeted and misapplied as "You're special and important, but I'm more special and important than you are."

You might have to drive the speed limit and not switch lanes constantly, but I have to, because where I'm going is more important than where you're going!


Orwell predicted this as a result of certain philosophies: All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.  As a result, you just have to understand that their behavior is above reproach!

Perhaps Allen/Toledobass can give us his impressions of audience behavior in northern Ohio at least.

[paulb]

As it happens, the Schumann piano concerto is one of those popular warhorses I really don't care for. I think Schumann is just note-spinning in the piece most of the time. But your contempt for "dear old most adorable Schumann" suggests to me that you have neither heard nor experienced the ardor and beauty of his best work - things like the Dichterliebe, the Carnaval, the C major Fantasy for piano, the slow movement of the 2nd symphony, the whole of the 4th, and more. I would probably go to hear some Schnittke or Pettersson live (though I'd sooner go to hear Boulez or Carter), but I would not throw away Schumann, Beethoven, Verdi, Dvorak, or any of the other major composers you so smugly dismiss. We only have one life to experience the world, and your dogmatic rejection of some of the world's finest music suggests to me that you are the one who prefers to reside in a prison of his own making, not I.

Yeah life is too short to remain stagnant, now isn't it

I'd put the piano muisc of Ravel, Debussy and all the chamber of Webern up next to any romantic pieces, including the almighty Chopin, and know which amazes and moves me more deeply.

Notice how you spilt up the movemnt of the Schumann 2nd sym, "the slow movement " I've seen people making similar statements about Mahler, Beethoven, Brahms syms. "Oh I love the 1st and last movements, moreso that the others" and such. I just don't understand this method of enjoying a  work. With me its all or nothing.

Gald to know you like Carter and Boulez.
Boulez's 4 cd set is up next for ordering. I hope to find more of what i heard on the 2 excellent Youtube clips i heard. Hopefully he's taken from Debussy, Varese, Schonberg, and as someone here said of one of his works, "an extention of Debussy". That i could live with, that he does have his unique voice in his works with influnces taken from previous masters. I'm expecting very good things from Boulez, we'll see.

Future programs that include late 20th C masterpieces, have to be thought over carefully. IMHO composers like Schnitte and Pettersson should be approached with caution and reflection. Both these composers need the space of a  entire program, shared with no other composer.
Now a  concert with Carter, the music of Boulez or any of the 3 second  viennese masters would make for a  exciting evening. Messiaen and Carter, wouldn't work for me. I dislike seeing one low level of composer, paired on a  ticket witha   supreme master. Its like the concert organizers are trying to force us to listen to composers we would not ordinarily go pay money to hear.
How many here would go to hear a all Messiaen concert? Consequently they program a  master with Messiaen. To get us to go hear Elgar, they pair him with Vaughan Williams. When all we really want to hear was the Vaughan Williams.
I wouldn't even wish to see Shostakovich paired with Schnittke ona   ticket. The sense of importance of Schnittke as i hear his music, deserves the space of a  entire program.

[toledobass]

I'm sorry Paul, but sometimes I wonder if you actually enjoy music.


Allan

[andy]

How many here would go to hear a all Messiaen concert? Consequently they program a  master with Messiaen. To get us to go hear Elgar, they pair him with Vaughan Williams. When all we really want to hear was the Vaughan Williams.
I wouldn't even wish to see Shostakovich paired with Schnittke ona   ticket. The sense of importance of Schnittke as i hear his music, deserves the space of a  entire program.

Actually I think that Messiaen is a master... the concert I'm looking forward to the most, actually the concert I've been most excited about ever, is the Toronto Symphony Orchestra playing Messiaen's Oixeaux exotiques coupled with Salonen's Piano Concerto. I'm more excited for Salonen's PC, but love the pairing with Messiaen.

[paulb]

Actually I think that Messiaen is a master... the concert I'm looking forward to the most, actually the concert I've been most excited about ever, is the Toronto Symphony Orchestra playing Messiaen's Oixeaux exotiques coupled with Salonen's Piano Concerto. I'm more excited for Salonen's PC, but love the pairing with Messiaen.

So you do, eh?
Read WTA's insightful "spot-on" review of Messianen.
i had 6 or 7 cds of Messiaen and imagined that i liked the music., But after reading WTA's comments, i decided upon further listenings of Messiaen, that WTA  called it right. I gave all my Messiaen to my conservative catholic brother in law. This made him so happy. Almost as happy as I was to see the cds leave my collection.

http://www.amazon.com/review/product/B00000JSAO/ref=cm_cr_dp_all_helpful?%5Fencoding=UTF8&coliid=&showViewpoints=1&colid=&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending

[paulb]

I'm sorry Paul, but sometimes I wonder if you actually enjoy music.


Allan

Under this  armour, lies a  hearty knight devoted to bringing the justice of recognition to certain composers who I feel are routinely neglected and at times with disdain by the main classical groupies.
Never doubt ye my passion for this high creative art form.