La forza del destino

[Michel]

I have only ever heard excerpts from this opera, principally the males parts, and principally Christoff. But my listening has told me firstly, that I need a full recording of the opera, but secondly, that I will not be satisfied unless Christoff is in it.

However, I can't find a recording of it anywhere. Can anyone shed any light on it please?

And failing that, convince me someone else is worth hearing...

[knight66]

Michel,

As far as I know Christoff is not in any available full recording. I suggest Sinopoli, it has an excellent cast, but frankly as I have suggested before, Christoff can spoil you for any other singer in some of his roles. The set is very dramatic, in excellent sound and has no weak links in it.


There is a famous older set on RCA with Leontine Price, the cast is...

  Fiorenza Cossotto - Vocals
  Gabriel Bacquier - Vocals
  Kurt Moll - Vocals
  Leontyne Price - Vocals
  Michel Senechal - Vocals
  Placido Domingo - Vocals
  Sherrill Milnes - Vocals
 

I only know the set by reputation. I assume Kurt Moll is singing the Christoff music, he has an awesome voice.

Mike

[Tsaraslondon]

Well the bass part in la Forza Del Destino is an important role, but not the most important role, so I wouldn't let the unavailability of a Christoff recording put you off. It is an uneven, but great score and certainly worth investigating.

I wouldn't call any of the available recordings flawless, though there are some very good ones, amongst them the Levine, with Leontyne Price



the Muti, with Bergonzi and Arroyo



And then there is always Callas's Leonora on the Serafin set of 1955, one of her greatest recorded performances.



Nicola Rossi-Lemeni is the bass . His tone may be woolly, but he is nevertheless authoratitive. The great scene between Leonora and the Padre Guardiano is superbly done.  I believe this recording is also now available at bargain price, both form Naxos and EMI, though here you won't get essays, text and translations.

[Michel]

Mike, why would I care if Sinopoli has a great set? My CD player doesn't show images, unfortunately..

The cast of your RCA recommendation, Mike, do not seem to tally up to what is listed here?:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Verdi-Force-Destiny-Giuseppe/dp/B000026M4X/ref=pd_bowtega_3/202-4442586-9880659?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1177496925&sr=1-3


ANd here is what I just read about it, "Sinopoli's eccentric recording has an unorthodox and provocative Leonara in Plowright but little else to commend it"
This is an impressive view of the Naxos recording you mentioned Tsaras:

http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=5231

As for Serafin and Callas, "the two of them can't offset the inadequate contributions of their colleagues."!

EDIT: CHRIST ALL MIGHTY!!!!!!! See below:!!!!!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Verdi-Forza-Destino-Giorgio-Algorta/dp/B00005BI6C/ref=sr_1_5/202-4442586-9880659?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1177498046&sr=1-5

[knight66]

Michel, In this context, 'set' means set of CDs, not to do with the visual.

As to Sinopoli, he tends to polarise some critics, I think it is a good set.

The Price cast; I got from the source I connected you to for your Gadfly question. Feed in the opera and Price and that is what came up.

I see the one mentioned by Translondon is from Levine. I have in the back of my mind there is another one by Price conducted by Schippers and with Bergonzi.

Mike

[Michel]

Yes, I think the Schipper's is supposed to be better.

Re, Christoff, there must be a recording from Gui somewhere; thats what the excerpts are normally from. Whats happened to it?

Does anyone have any thoughts on the one from Rome, shown above?

[Wendell_E]

There is a famous older set on RCA with Leontine Price, the cast is...

  Fiorenza Cossotto - Vocals
  Gabriel Bacquier - Vocals
  Kurt Moll - Vocals
  Leontyne Price - Vocals
  Michel Senechal - Vocals
  Placido Domingo - Vocals
  Sherrill Milnes - Vocals
 

I only know the set by reputation. I assume Kurt Moll is singing the Christoff music, he has an awesome voice.

Actually, Moll sings the brief role of the Marquis of Calatrava, the heroine's father, who gets killed in the first act.  The Christoff role (Padre Guardiano) is sung by Bonaldo Giaiotti in that recording.

I like that RCA recording, but even better, I think, is Lamberto Gardelli's EMI version with Arroyo, Bergonzi, Cappuccilli, Raimond, as Padre Guardiano, and Geraint Evans.

There's a DVD available with Christoff.  I've never seen it, but everyone who has seems to rave about it.  It's black & white, mono, and probably makes all the standard cuts (which in this act can include an entire scene, but it's not a scene Christoff would be in.  Both of the other recordings I mentioned are uncut), but supposedly the singing makes up for all that:

http://www.amazon.com/Verdi-Bastianini-Christoff-Dominguez-Molinari-Pradelli/dp/B00009MEF5/ref=sr_1_2/102-9778813-5105730?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1177501437&sr=8-2

Edit:  I see the a CD version of that same performance:

http://www.amazon.com/Verdi-Forza-del-Destino-Giuseppe/dp/B00005BI6C/ref=sr_1_7/102-9778813-5105730?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1177501437&sr=8-7

[val]

My favorite version is perhaps, the one conducted by Muti, with Domingo and Freni. Muti is very dramatic and dynamic, Domingo and Freni are good (but not exceptional) and Bruscantini is a perfect Melitone.

The old version conducted by Mollinari-Pradelli, had the very touching Tebaldi and the best Guardiano, Siepi. But Del Monaco was not very convincing, too "verist", sometimes almost brutal.

Since I never liked the voice of Richad Tucker (he seems to sing with his nose), I am not a fan of the Callas version. Even Callas is not, here, at her best.

Another good version, very well conducted by Previtali, had the great Milanova, an almost fragile Di Stefano and Warren (I think that years later he died on stage singing this opera).

And let's not forget the sublime excerpts recorded by Ponselle, Martinelli, De Luca and Pinza. Martinelli, in special, gives a lesson of style never approached.

[Michel]

Great posts guys, thankyou.

Interesting to hear all the other thoughts on the other recordings; its making me want to splash out now.

Only I will restrain myself and re-focus: Should I get that Christoff or not? I suppose I should then report back. I just don't want it to be a horrendous sound recording (not that I mind historic ones, Infact, I love them) as I don't know the label..Hardy Classic?

[Tsaraslondon]

Since I never liked the voice of Richad Tucker (he seems to sing with his nose), I am not a fan of the Callas version. Even Callas is not, here, at her best.

I do not agree that Callas is not at her best. This is actually one of her very best studio performances (I say studio, because she was always better caught live). After a detailed and extremely favourable appraisal of Callas's Leonora, this is what London Green has to say in The Metroplitan Guide to Recorded Opera

There are, it should be said, a few wobbly top notes, but generally the voice is rich, steady and infinitely responsive...The recording is essential for the work of Callas, and especially worth while for the contributions of Serafin and Rossi-Lemeni

As for Tucker, my main problem with him is that he compensates for not being Italian, bi aspirating and sobbing his way through the music. His vocal production is actually pretty sound. Tagliabue is the main problem - way past his best. Elena Nicolai is ok as Preziosilla, though I think Agnes Baltsa is probably the only singer to make any sense of this role, but we do have an excellent Melitone in the hands of Fernando Corena. At Naxos price it's an absolute bargain.

[marvinbrown]

Well the bass part in la Forza Del Destino is an important role, but not the most important role, so I wouldn't let the unavailability of a Christoff recording put you off. It is an uneven, but great score and certainly worth investigating.

I wouldn't call any of the available recordings flawless, though there are some very good ones, amongst them the Levine, with Leontyne Price

   Personally I can't not imagine La Forza del Destino without Leontyne Price, the recording Tsaraslondon recommends is the one I have and absolutely love.  I second his recommendation.

   marvin 

[knight66]

Michel, The conductor on the Christoff that you found, Molinari-Pradelli was excellent. He deserved more acclaim and exposure than he ever got. There is no full cast of singers, but the ones listed are first rate. The same conductor did a long unavailable Rigoletto with Capecchi, I had it about 30 years ago and loved it to death.

Might be worth a flyer, but as to the sound, who knows?

Thanks guys for correcting my assumption on what I assume is the Schippers or Levine. Anyway....you have recommended a wealth of versions. Somehow, I have never taken to this opera and uniquely for Verdi, I only have one version of it. I feel the structure of the piece is disjointed.

Mike

[Michel]

I feel the structure of the piece is disjointed.

Thats a given isn't it? A sprawling mess is a phrase I see banded about.

I think I am going to pee into the wind and get it, though Mike.

[knight66]

In which case I hope you do not get soaked!

GO MICHEL  GO MICHEL  GO MICHEL  GO MICHEL GO MICHEL

Mike

[Michel]

In which case I hope you do not get soaked!

GO MICHEL  GO MICHEL  GO MICHEL  GO MICHEL GO MICHEL

Mike

HAHAHA!

[Iago]

Molinari-Pradelli was excellent. He deserved more acclaim and exposure than he ever got.

Did you ever sing for Molinari-Pradelli?

Over the years, I saw about two dozen performances of his at the Met.
Neither singers, nor orchestra seemed to be even infinitesimally inspired under his baton. He offered "readings", not performances. Everybody was on their own. He offered very little in the way of leadership or direction.
He had several other compadres at the Met that were in the same class as he.
Nello Santi and Fausto Cleva, spring to mind. Stick wavers for sure. But conductors? No way! 

[Mozart]

ughhh I couldnt even get through the libretto, it was soo terrible...

[knight66]

Nello Santi and Fausto Cleva...it is odd how varied the opinions can be. Both of these have perfectly respectable, if no wow factor, reputations in Europe and they together with Molinari-Predelli left a legacy of good recordings.

Mike

[val]

Iago

Over the years, I saw about two dozen performances of his at the Met.
Neither singers, nor orchestra seemed to be even infinitesimally inspired under his baton. He offered "readings", not performances. Everybody was on their own. He offered very little in the way of leadership or direction.
He had several other compadres at the Met that were in the same class as he.
Nello Santi and Fausto Cleva, spring to mind. Stick wavers for sure. But conductors? No way! 

I have exactly the same opinion.

[Hector]

Nello Santi and Fausto Cleva...it is odd how varied the opinions can be. Both of these have perfectly respectable, if no wow factor, reputations in Europe and they together with Molinari-Predelli left a legacy of good recordings.

Mike

I do not know much about Cleva but do know that Santi could be inspired on occasion and produce a 'phone-in contribution on others.

His memorial must be the Wolf-Ferrari disc he made for Decca way back and that has its 'eccentric' moments as I remember.

As for 'La Forza' nobody has mentioned the first complete set under Gardelli with Bergonzi, Arroyo, Cappuccilli, Geraint Evans and Raimondi on EMI recorded in London with an on-form RPO.