Shostakovich Symphonies, Cycles & Otherwise

[karlhenning]

BTW, I have with great pleasure revisited the Fourth and Fifteenth in the Jansons cycle; excellent.

I still won't hear of the Maksim Dmitriyevich cycle being "unwisdom," Thos :-)

[karlhenning]

It's funny you mentioned the Sanderling because I have it my cart at Amazon.  There have been quite a few members that have mentioned that set.  I'm going with your suggestion and will buy the Sanderling this week (of course I'll probably buy one of the Jansons/M. Shostakovich at some point later).

For the past couple of months I've been listening to all the Shostakovich symphonies I have in numerical order.  With the three sets, plus all the singles, it has taken me some time.  So far I like all three, but my favorite would have to be the Rozhdestvensky.  The Kondrashin I have is from a seller at Ebay.  The sound can be very bright and tinny at times so at some point I'll buy the Melodiya release.  All three sets definitely have their merits and drawbacks (what cycle doesn't?), but if I had money just to buy one it would be the Rozhdestvensky (if you could find it!).

Well, what news? 

[rw1883]

Well, what news? 

The set hasn't arrived, but it should be here today or tomorrow.  Sometimes Caiman (Amazon) can be slow, but usually the price is right.  I'll give you an update sometime next week...

Paul

[karlhenning]

Caiman has always delivered promptly when I've ordered from them (as an amazon.com third-party seller).

This season, we'll be hearing the BSO in the Fourth and Fifth Symphonies;  they played the Eighth so brilliantly, that I am really looking forward to both of these concerts, in particular!

[Guido]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shostakovich#Orthodoxy_and_revisionism

This article seems bizarre to me - treating the idea that Shostakovich didn't really believe in regime and hated Stalin etc. as a controversial theory... Surely even before Testament people realised that he was not a 'state composer'. Also the fact that literally everyone he had contact with agrees with the 'revisionist' view (what view is being revised, and who held the view, and at what time). How could anyone listen to the music and think that he was a happy communist? And the final comment that overpoliticising the music detracts from it is also plainly ridiculous - part of the reason that it is such poignant and affecting music is precisely because of its message. It seems ridiculous to even type this.

Also I found this article by Robin Holloway to be very surprising reading. I was sure that most people get over the 'I hate such and such a famous composer' phase by about the age of 18.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3724/is_200008/ai_n8906382


Also this comment:

One prominent criticism of Shostakovich has been that his symphonic work in particular is, as Shostakovich scholar Gerard McBurney summarizes, "derivative ... trashy, empty and second-hand

Why would you be a scholar of something that you think is worthless. Is this guy indeed a scholar in Shostakovich, or is he just another person with a lot of opinions?

I know Shostakovich isn't for everyone, but I haven't seen these views presented so harshly before. Does anyone here agree?

[karlhenning]

Yikes, Guido! McBurney needs to find some other line of work 

[Bonehelm]

Anybody have thoughts on Haitink/LPO 5th and 9th? I'm demonoiding it if it's anything better than "good". I really want to get to know Shosty.

[BorisG]

Anybody have thoughts on Haitink/LPO 5th and 9th? I'm demonoiding it if it's anything better than "good". I really want to get to know Shosty.

Nothing to be afraid of. That recording is far better than good.

[Bonehelm]

Nothing to be afraid of. That recording is far better than good.

Thanks, BorisG. Any reason in particular as to why it's great?

[Renfield]

Thanks, BorisG. Any reason in particular as to why it's great?

It's one of the best in Haitink's D. Shoch. cycle! And I'd avise you just make the dare and listen to it yourself.

[BorisG]

Thanks, BorisG. Any reason in particular as to why it's great?

Did I say great? You can make that decision, if you buy and listen.

5 is not overdone, as it is with many. 9 would seemingly be perfect for Haitink, and it is. Enjoy, enjoy.

[The new erato]

The one recording from Haitinks cycle I tend to play repeatedly in no 15. Don't know if that makes it a great record, but stil.... VG sound.

[Maciek]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shostakovich#Orthodoxy_and_revisionism

This article seems bizarre to me - treating the idea that Shostakovich didn't really believe in regime and hated Stalin etc. as a controversial theory... Surely even before Testament people realised that he was not a 'state composer'. Also the fact that literally everyone he had contact with agrees with the 'revisionist' view (what view is being revised, and who held the view, and at what time). How could anyone listen to the music and think that he was a happy communist?

Hi Guido. I don't have time to peruse the article right now, just wanted to say there's nothing irrational in thinking Shostakovich was a communist. For anyone to have the sort of career he had in Soviet Russia at that time it would have been necessary to at least silently accept the regime, though I think that wouldn't really have been enough. Perhaps enough to stay alive but not to have a career of any sort. This has nothing to do with the quality of the music. He may have been the greatest symphonist of the 20th century but really, he was no martyr. Osip Mandelshtam was a martyr of sorts - and the very lenient sentence he got at first was to be exiled to Ural! And it is said Stalin actually liked the guy!

[ragman1970]

How interesting!

Speaking of Bychkov, apparently he's embarking on a complete cycle for Avie. Can't confirm that but the signs seem to point to it. Should be interesting.

I've picked up the 7th from this Avie set but haven't ventured further since two of the other recordings - the 8th and 11th - are duplicated on his earlier Berlin Philharmonic releases...and I already have those.

In fact, these Berlin recordings (5, 8, 11) have always held a place in my heart and it saddened me he never went further. I credit my fondness for the 11th to Bychkov's very fine Berlin reading. I wonder how the recent Avie compares...

Anyway, as soon as this cycle(?) moves into territory not duplicated by Bychkov/Berlin I'll likely begin following it very closely. His new 4th is perched right atop my want list...

However, from my point of view Bychkow with the WDR SO will produce at the end a fine set we should not ignore!

[karlhenning]

This article seems bizarre to me - treating the idea that Shostakovich didn't really believe in regime and hated Stalin etc. as a controversial theory... Surely even before Testament people realised that he was not a 'state composer'.

Well, that was pretty much the image of Shostakovich exported by Moscow, and here in the States, anyway, few were inclined to question that image before Testimony.

Maciek is right, to be sure, that much of Shostakovich's circumstances appear sufficiently like cooperation, and it is hardly irrational to take the view of Shostakovich as a Communist (even Shostakovich's friends were puzzled, at the least, by his taking official membership in the Party in 1960).  Maciek is right, too, to observe that, much though we might pity the torment he endured, Shostakovich was at least lucky in this, that he survived through it all, where so many cultural figures perished.  (Even Akhmatova, who also hung on by a thread, found it impossible to write any poetry for long years, so at least Shostakovich was able consistently to apply himself to his creative work.)  So to apply the label "martyr" to Shostakovich is overstatement, and dishonors many who did in fact perish.  The case is strong that Shostakovich was not (for most of his career) a "genuine Communist," but instead did what he needed to do to survive (and, to his credit, he did more than merely survive, but also at times used his position to try to help other artists);  but it is a nuanced argument, and travels only with difficulty outside of Russia.

[not edward]

Yikes, Guido! McBurney needs to find some other line of work 

I'm pretty sure McBurney was summarizing the straw-man argument against Shostakovich; he certainly has great admiration for Shostakovich's work, though I believe he prefers the quartets and song cycles to the symphonies.

I don't think anyone could have studied with Schnittke in the early '80s and have totally rejected Shostakovich's work.

[karlhenning]

Thanks for the clarification, Edward!

[Varg]

Haitink is my very foundation when it comes to Shostakovich symphonies. I only need a few extra recordings to be fully satisfied with my Shosty; the 5th and 8th by Rostropovich (LSO), even if Haitink is magical with both of them, and the 10th by Karajan, which stands in it's own league. Heaven! 0:)

[karlhenning]

Does anyone know what's up with russianDVD.com?  I put the Kondrashin box into my cart, and then I get a message that it's out of stock.

[M forever]

I only see the Aulos set on russiandvd, and you don't want that anyway.