Shostakovich Symphonies, Cycles & Otherwise

[Karl Henning]

[...] AND I WAS LOOKING UP THE 7TH LAST NIGHT- apparently it's a toss-up between Bernstein (either) and whomever plays it the fastest? (some liked Jarvi, but many thought the Ashkenazy w/St. Petersburg was the best 'overall' (though some complain about the extreme dynamic range in this and in the Rosty- which, frankly, doesn't bother me as the march is supposed to start from a distance,... eh?)

Just to reiterate- I HAVE NOT EVER even listened to the 7th (maybe once in the very beginning, don't remember) because of prejudice against the music, so, if I hear Lenny FIRST, will that ruin others (or vice versa)? Should i start with a fast one and then go to Lenny? Jansons gets some fast timings, but I'm always afraid (even though he's Mavrinsky's homei) that he's going to be too 'perfect'.

I don't think I've heard the Lenny/NY Phil recording (with Lenny's cuts in the first movement) I won't have my Leningrad shredded, I tell you!

The CSO account is wonderful, superb, idiosyncratic . . . unreliable as a "road map."

You weren't paying attention when I mentioned Ančerl/Cz Phil, were you?! 

[Henk]

Isn't Shostakovich depressive?

[North Star]

Karlo, how could you skip the Sixth?  0:)

And Ninth?

Well, I thought listing ten favourites would be a bit too much. But yes, those two, too.
Perhaps I'm forgiven if I listen to Op. 54 (Jansons & Oslo) straight away. 

[North Star]

Isn't Shostakovich depressive?

I wouldn't say so.

[Karl Henning]

Nor me.  In fact, I find it exhilaratingly affirming.

[Henk]

Ok, needed to check before spinning some Shostakovich (which I do now and I agree). I had this set in my memory:

[asin]B000HXE5BK[/asin]

Maybe it are just the interpretations but I made such a heavy impact on me, depressive.

[Karl Henning]

Ok, needed to check before spinning some Shostakovich (which I do now and I agree). I had this set in my memory:

[asin]B000HXE5BK[/asin]

Maybe it are just the interpretations but I made such a heavy impact on me, depressive.

Perhaps;  because of the personal connection, it may be, the Borodins recording has something of a monumental air.

Perhaps if you tried the Emerson or Pacifica SQ, they might be more to your liking.

[snyprrr]

Karlo, how could you skip the Sixth?  0:)

And Ninth?

So, I'm giving Mackerras/RPO (BBC) a go here, and now I find I have to state up front: I MUST HAVE MY OPENING LOW STRINGS LOOOUD!!!PLEASE!!!

I don't know exactly what the problem was, but the first two low string notes- I had to turn the volume up. Uh, that.should.not.happen.here. in the 5th... by Shostakovich... that 5th.

So I'm in the middle of the Moderato, but now I'm pissed because my search continues... wait... wait... ok, cool, the walking piano part comes in nice with menacing brass... but I still need those first notes louder (I guess not Mackerras's fault, buuut,...) yea- snar drum intro is fine- it's a great performance, but you know how I get about LowInitialVolumeImpact.

f***

Still, at this elevated volume, it's quite a braying delight! Must turn down a notch...

The sound quality (is this 'live') is "fine"... it does "sound live"... the levels for the 'Festive Overture' were just slightly less than the Litton/Virgin (which itself is a somewhat distant recording)... it just looks like I want a more controlled studio environment (it says, recorded at "C.T.S. Studios, London", 'live' or not) with a really decent Input Level on the microphones.

Why do I get the feeling this is going to be a problem? Fuuu... I really don't want to have to turn to the CoughMeister.

So, it's official, I'm not a fan of a dynamics laden 5th. I don't want any 'sotto voce' here, thank you. I'll be comparing with Late Lenny in a moment, and I recall that recording to be in your face from the get go.


trying.to.remain. calm.stop.

should.listen.more.to.people.not.get.unvetted.cds.stop.

i've.let.you.all.down.









onward forward!!

Again, the lower levels are making half of the Allegretto very quite, even at current high volume setting. Uh boy, does that mean I'm need a hearing aid for the Adagio?

[snyprrr]

About to preview Lazarev's 14th on Virgin with  Makvala Kasrashvili and Michael Krutikov. (Virgin; Lausanne Chamber Orchestra)

[snyprrr]

About to preview Lazarev's 14th on Virgin with  Makvala Kasrashvili and Michael Krutikov. (Virgin; Lausanne Chamber Orchestra)

Yes... NO!... sorry...

a) recorded with an open dynamic range,... and from a seated distance,... and then played too loud/too soft for the ultimate in volume knob terrorism.

b) because the strings are so far back, quiet parts are... well, just see above... ensemble is certainly not immaculate - also, there is no sulfur smell, or hellbound viols, or any underlining of anything darker - this must be one of those "try not to make it sound too much like Death" '90s ideas that really should have just gotten the Sanderling treatment!

c) the Conductor's slack hand is manifest all over the place, with literally no tension at all ever. Sure, some parts come off well and sound like the good parts of other recordings, but most other Conductors demand, and get, the 'dark matter' upon request. Here, it seems that not much was required of the strings other than to give somewhat of a backdrop.

d) the percussion choices are nothing special and don't bring George Crumb to the table (so to speak)


If you turn up your system very loud, and your speakers can handle it, then maybe, just maybe, most of my criticisms are just bs and this is, in fact, a great record. Frankly, Slovak on Naxos had some sweet singing,... guys? Slovak. That Slovak. Someone must have a forgotten copy- please check. (think about it- Naxos's sound fits this music to a 't') Anyhow, off we go...

(I know- can't afford Currentzis this week)

[amw]

Maybe it are just the interpretations but I made such a heavy impact on me, depressive.

The Russian interpreters of the string quartets tend to bring out that side of things.

Try the Mandelring or Hagen Quartets (on Spotify/Qobuz/etc) for different approaches.

[Sergeant Rock]

So, I'm giving Mackerras/RPO (BBC) a go here, and now I find I have to state up front: I MUST HAVE MY OPENING LOW STRINGS LOOOUD!!!PLEASE!!!

I don't know exactly what the problem was, but the first two low string notes- I had to turn the volume up. Uh, that.should.not.happen.here. in the 5th... by Shostakovich... that 5th.

I told you to buy Lenny/Live, but would you listen? Nooooo... 


Sarge

[Karl Henning]

I told you to buy Lenny/Live, but would you listen? Nooooo... 


Sarge

(* chortle *)

[snyprrr]

I told you to buy Lenny/Live, but would you listen? Nooooo... 


Sarge

(* chortle *)

WAAAAH!!


Seriously, I expected a better sound picture from Mackerras. If you want to infuriate me, start the 5th off with mufflers on. Slapped 'Bernstein Century' in after, just to make sure it wasn't the speakers. it wasn't. Lenny (wait... the one with Ma CC1 is the one you're talking about?) starts the piece off the way I want to hear it (which is, I WANT TO HEAR IT!). Just infuriating!

Otherwise, the Mackerras was fine, as an interpretation. But, that flippin "dynamic range" on some of these modern recordings is counterproductive, imo. Lenny shows up dynamic range!



So, whilst i have the both of you- Top3 6ths? Is it the jewel of Haitink's crown? Sargent? I'm starting with my beloved first cd ever- Jarvi 1/6. A lot of one offs here...

[Karl Henning]

So, whilst i have the both of you- Top3 6ths? Is it the jewel of Haitink's crown? Sargent? I'm starting with my beloved first cd ever- Jarvi 1/6. A lot of one offs here...

Very partial to the Termirkanov/St Petersburg Phil; but yes, Haitink's is very good.

[Sergeant Rock]

WAAAAH!!


Seriously, I expected a better sound picture from Mackerras. If you want to infuriate me, start the 5th off with mufflers on. Slapped 'Bernstein Century' in after, just to make sure it wasn't the speakers. it wasn't. Lenny (wait... the one with Ma CC1 is the one you're talking about?)

Yes, I mean the one coupled with Ma/Ormandy.

So, whilst i have the both of you- Top3 6ths? Is it the jewel of Haitink's crown? Sargent? I'm starting with my beloved first cd ever- Jarvi 1/6. A lot of one offs here...

Haitink hits the spot, Bernstein too. I was disappointed by Järvi and Rostropovich. I have Termirkov, and a half dozen others too, but have no memory of them. I should conduct a not-so-blind comparison.

Sarge

[snyprrr]

Yes, I mean the one coupled with Ma/Ormandy.

Haitink hits the spot, Bernstein too. I was disappointed by Järvi and Rostropovich. I have Termirkov, and a half dozen others too, but have no memory of them. I should conduct a not-so-blind comparison.

Sarge

Oh yes please do!

OK, I thought you were pushin' Rosty/DDG in 5? I just realized that late Lenny and 1st Rosty are near each other chronologically. Does one need both? I just relented on the Rosty, but after reading a bunch of Lenny79 Reviews, I MUST ASK:

DOES LENNY AT LEAST OPEN WITH AT LEAST THE SOUND PRESSURE LEVELS OF THE OLDER ONE? I just want to make sure about those first eight notes. The Reviews were going on about how 'draggy' the 1st mvmt was- which is fine as long sas there's a corresponding amount of tension. FRANKLY, I CAN'T SEE LENNY UNDERPOWERING HIM INTRO. Please do confirm that him open will straighten my short hairs!

As soon as you confirm, I deploy my Damage Finger!

[Sergeant Rock]

Oh yes please do!

OK, I thought you were pushin' Rosty/DDG in 5? I just realized that late Lenny and 1st Rosty are near each other chronologically. Does one need both?

I push both: one for the "Testament" ending (Slava) and one for the Happy Ending (Lenny). I think you need both types of performances in your collection.

I MUST ASK:

DOES LENNY AT LEAST OPEN WITH AT LEAST THE SOUND PRESSURE LEVELS OF THE OLDER ONE? I just want to make sure about those first eight notes. The Reviews were going on about how 'draggy' the 1st mvmt was- which is fine as long sas there's a corresponding amount of tension. FRANKLY, I CAN'T SEE LENNY UNDERPOWERING HIM INTRO. Please do confirm that him open will straighten my short hairs!

I haven't heard the first Lenny, and I can't find clips online that include the first bars. I haven't heard Mack either, so it's impossible for me to say if Lenny/Tokyo is actually as good as his studio version or better than Mack. All I can say is the opening sounds right, and powerful, to me. His live first movement is a minute and a half longer. I don't think it drags. The second theme is just so bleak, so icy, like a dead, frozen Siberian landscape. The last movement is slower too (8:55 vs 10:10) which I think must be an improvement (not so manic but still swift and upbeat).

Sarge

[snyprrr]

I push both: one for the "Testament" ending (Slava) and one for the Happy Ending (Lenny). I think you need both types of performances in your collection.

I haven't heard the first Lenny, and I can't find clips online that include the first bars. I haven't heard Mack either, so it's impossible for me to say if Lenny/Tokyo is actually as good as his studio version or better than Mack. All I can say is the opening sounds right, and powerful, to me. His live first movement is a minute and a half longer. I don't think it drags. The second theme is just so bleak, so icy, like a dead, frozen Siberian landscape. The last movement is slower too (8:55 vs 10:10) which I think must be an improvement (not so manic but still swift and upbeat).

Sarge

Mack = Mackerras?  haha!! ok

Yes, ok, yes- the '59 Lenny starts JUST LIKE ANYONE WOULD WANT IT- there just can't be any complaining, so, I'll just assume that '79 is "normal" and starts off with an acceptable pushing of decibels. The Mack just starts off with a super disappointingly low volume- comparing to LB59 was embarrassing. I seem to recall Ashkenazy somewhere in the middle (his is known as 'reserved').

OK, I'll just- err- assuuuume that Lenny '79 does the right thing, and why wouldn't he? There's just no excuse for Mack to rob the very first notes of their dramatic power like that. I feel violated!! Hold me!

Are there some other wet noodle openings out there that one should avoid, I wonder?


Anyhow,- DONE!!

[snyprrr]

My favorite recording of No. 13 is Okko Kumo/City of Birmingham/Chandos.  How do you like this one Karl?

Well, yesterday was the BigDay,... but,... huh?,...

First I put on the intro to the Haitink. OK, fine- very nice- the only version I've ever known.

Now on to the Kamu, which Grady Harp convinced me was what I was looking for. OK, it starts. About the same as Haitink. Oh, very nice winds right there- ok, here it comes, here comes the big choral intro- wait- wait-

WHAAAT??

The choir is even more recessed than Haitink's. AAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!! RUUUIIIINNNED!!! AAAAHHHHH!!!! Haitink's choir is actually right about where it should be- just.about.- but Kamu's - no matter how good they are- ARE JUST TOO RECESSED.

Everything else seemed ok- Storojev is certainly immediately noticed as a much better, Russian sounding singer for the 13th- THOUGH, listening again to Rintzler, he's fine- I mean, he certainly doesn't have "THAT" sound in his voice, but one can make it through without having serious problems (sure, it would be nice if he had THAT sound in his voice).

Ugh- so- I have to dismiss the Kamu simply because of the recessed choir. I also hear Temirkanov's recording is a little distant (anyone?).

So, frankly, Haitink won this one hands down. His intro is also just a tad quicker (and he's the one accused of dragging?) so that those very opening flourishes have a little more life to them. And his recording is- well- we all know Haitink's recording is exemplary. Nothing particularly wrong with the Chandos recording- the 4th mvmt's opening cymbal swirls sound particularly eerie here (though Haitink holds him own).

But, fffffuuuuuu........- the choir is muy importante.



I had Haitink in the SELL pile. It goes back on the shelf; Kamu is dismissed.



Well, I want to try another 13th. Masur, Maxim/Supraph., Jarvi, Sinaisky, Jansons ? MUST HAVE DECENT CHOIR No one plays this music as slow as either Haitink or kamu, so that's not an issue any more. I JUST WANT IT ALL AND I'M NOT ASKING TOO MUCH!!!