Should the Gov resort to propaganda/also Police Brutality

[paulb]

2 topics which could be given separate  forums, but I thought since both concern government breakdown, why not put both turds in one toilet.

So Bush says long term outlook on the economy is looking ggod.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080211/bush_economy.html

Is propaganda and lies from the gov's getting out of hand. Much more lies than truth?

and on police brutality, well just read your daily newspaper, and most of us here have been victimized at the very least once in our life by a  unprofessional cop, ie rogue cop.
btw cops will lie to you and make you look like you are the trouble maker, when in fact they havea   roguish attitude.


its a  tough world out there, gotta be tough man, yep ya gotta be tough 

I see cops more and more taking on a  rougeish  attitude , of course not gestapo style, but certainly not for the people either.
I thinks cops see the public as a  threat, as the enemy.
Sure they get shot at. But its their job, why take their frustration out on the general public.
Some cities are not as bad as others, some border gestapo style.
Its not a case of one bad apple spoiling the bunch. Its epidemic, even if a  cop wants to take  public friendly approach, he'll be odd-man-out in the force.
This will be a serious issue to deal with in the future.
Cops here in New Orleans murdered in cold blood twice(possibly others) during Katrina, and all the cops got off the hook.

Oh and recall just after Katrina the cps that beat, almost to death, that old man on Bourbon Street. All charges dropped.
Caught on camera, all charges dropped. That is New Orleans, past, present, future. Other cities have similar crimes committed  by cops.

[paulb]

Not sure how I do it, but I am connected.
I brought up my local COX pAge,
here's the new headlines which i was posted after i made this topic.

http://neworleans.cox.net/cci/newsnational/national?_mode=view&_state=maximized&view=article&id=D8UOA6683&_action=validatearticle

Need more proof?

I just noticed the town is CANTON OHIO.
I have relatives from that city
bad place.

[MN Dave]

[Danny]

I wonder who would say yes here..................................   

[Ephemerid]

What makes me nervous is the use of tasers for compliance, which presumably tasers were not intended for.

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/02/11/6979/

And in a country which now purports that torture is not torture if it leaves no physical scarring (waterboarding, cold cell, stress positions, all once considered torture by the US military) it makes using tasers more "acceptable."  I find this a very disturbing trend.

[paulb]

Josh
had you seen the tape of the 4 husky cops beating the black grey hair man on Bourbon Street,
Now thats disturbing. Actually its frightening once you know that all 4 cops had all the charges droped against them/ More reasons why you do not want to either visit nor live in NO.

[Gustav]

Mao, Hua, Deng, Jiang, Hu all says "Yes"!

[Haffner]

uhhhhh NO.

[Gurn Blanston]

I wonder who would say yes here..................................   

I would, if the question was phrased in an intelligent way that allowed for thoughtful circumstances. This is NOT a yes or no question.



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[Jupiter]

I'm glad I live in Australia - no "right to bear arms", tolerant, generally egalitarian, decent welfare system. Not perfect, but I'm still glad.

[Danny]

I would, if the question was phrased in an intelligent way that allowed for thoughtful circumstances. This is NOT a yes or no question.



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Mozart & Beethoven – Quintets For Fortepiano And Winds - Stanley Hoogland, Ku Ebbinge, Eric Hoeprich, Ab Koster & Danny Bond - K 452 Quintet in Eb for Fortepiano & Winds 1st mvmt - Largo - Allegro moderato

I thought I saw a question mark up yonder, Mr. Blanston.  Turns out I'm wrong.

Honestly, any use of propoganda or police brutality by the government sounds scary and is a dangerous precedent to start.  Perhaps in certain situations it could be applied when needed, but where would it stop?  And does everyone have the same criterion for its uses?

[Gurn Blanston]

I thought I saw a question mark up yonder, Mr. Blanston.  Turns out I'm wrong.

Honestly, any use of propoganda or police brutality by the government sounds scary and is a dangerous precedent to start.  Perhaps in certain situations it could be applied when needed, but where would it stop?  And does everyone have the same criterion for its uses?

There has never been a time when the government didn't filter information with some spin on it, or with results weighted towards the outcome that the government needs to have.  And many times the reasons for it are quite valid. Many times they aren't.

Same for some measure of brutality by minions of governmental agencies. There has never been a time when some measure of this didn't exist. Look at the march on Washington by WW I veterans in the 1920's as an example. Or the Kent State massacre. And don't be too sure that the police did precisely what the media say they did in paul's original example. We don't know all the story there, or even have any way to know that what we HAVE been told is true. A jury didn't find them not guilty just for the hell of it.

And this is not only in the USA...




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[paulb]

We don't know all the story there, or even have any way to know that what we HAVE been told is true. A jury didn't find them not guilty just for the hell of it.






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Truth is
the murder of the autistic 19 yr old boy in front the closed down Holiday Inn's front lawn on Chef Hwy, was promted by police responding to a  'possible' shooter" from some youths on the Danziger Bridge, when police arrived they saw several youths running, they chased  the autistic boy and his brother to the holiday Inn, the brother managed to escape out the rear. Neither had guns or ill will, No crime record. The autistic boy fell down on the lawn, the cops plugged him with at least 4 rounds.
All 4 high ranking, Sargents i believe, were not brought to trial. All charges dropped.

The other case involved a  man outside the Convention Center I believe, as he approached the patroling NO police car, the car sped up hitting the man , throwing him onto the windshield, cop shot him through the windshield and drove off, to the horror of the crowds.
All charges dropped.

I don't care if you   refute or doubt the story,   the way i know it happened.

The man brutalized on bourbon street , that tape was shown over and over on all the majors, america gasped in revolt at such behavoir from a  city's police forse. But thats as far as it went. a shriek of horror.
Police rule baby.

As to gov propaganda, sure its always been with us, but this is no time for hiding facts.
things are starting to leak out.
What kind in degree is  the  recession looming  up ahead, no one knows for sure.
If the stock market is any indication, look out baby.
None of us here lived in the great depression. Obviously it will never get as bad as the big one.

[paulb]

I'm glad I live in Australia - no "right to bear arms", tolerant, generally egalitarian, decent welfare system. Not perfect, but I'm still glad.

ahh I'm sure it is a  very nice place to live.
How s new Zealand?, nice too I'm sure.
Beautiful island from things I've heard.

[Ephemerid]

ahh I'm sure it is a  very nice place to live.
How s new Zealand?, nice too I'm sure.
Beautiful island from things I've heard.

Not sure about Oz, but in NZ the cops don't normally walk around with firearms.  I know NZ isn't the only country like that (Japan & I believe England).  It was a weird experience to see cops in Christchurch with no guns. 

Something the NRA doesn't want Americans to know about, how much nicer it is to live somewhere where there are tight gun restrictions.

[paulb]

Not sure about Oz, but in NZ the cops don't normally walk around with firearms.  I know NZ isn't the only country like that (Japan & I believe England).  It was a weird experience to see cops in Christchurch with no guns. 

Something the NRA doesn't want Americans to know about, how much nicer it is to live somewhere where there are tight gun restrictions.

Cops pretty much need guns in the states as crack cocaine has bullets flying every which way.
But i agree citizens should not own hand guns.
Strange that the US gov knew of plane hijackings for decades before the 9/11 attacks. so why was there not the policy to have one armed security at the front of every plane?

al qaeda struck hard, and drove the knife deep

[Danny]

There has never been a time when the government didn't filter information with some spin on it, or with results weighted towards the outcome that the government needs to have.  And many times the reasons for it are quite valid. Many times they aren't.

Same for some measure of brutality by minions of governmental agencies. There has never been a time when some measure of this didn't exist. Look at the march on Washington by WW I veterans in the 1920's as an example. Or the Kent State massacre. And don't be too sure that the police did precisely what the media say they did in paul's original example. We don't know all the story there, or even have any way to know that what we HAVE been told is true. A jury didn't find them not guilty just for the hell of it.

And this is not only in the USA...




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Now playing:
Beethoven - The last sonatas for pianoforte - Komen, Paul - LvB Op 110 Sonata #31 in Ab for Fortepiano 4th mvmt - Adagio ma non troppo - Fuga: Allegro ma non troppo

Well, propaganda and violence by the State can occur--and at various times it has been done to destroy and harm others, I'm sure.  The precedent is there and it is certainly tragic.  For that, I can't see either as benefical or positive instruments.

[paulb]

Well, propaganda and violence by the State can occur--and at various times it has been done to destroy and harm others, I'm sure.  The precedent is there and it is certainly tragic.  For that, I can't see either as benefical or positive instruments.

Thing is the europeans can read right through propaganda, they know when they smell a  rat
Most american's can't *smell a rat* the size of a   neutria

btw , its true we do eat these rodents on special ocassions. tasty critters, taste just like rabbit or chicken.
Why get all squeamish, the french love *escorgot*, = snails!

[Gustav]

Thing is the europeans can read right through propaganda, they know when they smell a  rat
Most american's can't *smell a rat* the size of a   neutria

what about WWII Nazi Germany and Italy, weren't they Europeans?

[MishaK]

Strange that the US gov knew of plane hijackings for decades before the 9/11 attacks. so why was there not the policy to have one armed security at the front of every plane?

Because all prior hijackings involved hijackers that did not plan for themselves to die and who therefore had no plans for crashing the airplane. It was safer to negotiate with them and get the plane to an airport rather than introduce weapons into an aircraft, where sensitive equipment could be damaged by bullets. Remember that in most aircraft the mid-cabin sits on top of a large fuel tank which is the first to go empty after takeoff after which it is filled with easily ignited fumes. Remember also that a puncture of the cabin wall will cause decompression. There are other vital organs of the aircraft that could likewise be damaged and could significantly impair the integrity and operability of the aircraft. 9-11 changed everything in that the hijackers hijacked the plane for the specific purpose of crashing it and killing themselves in the process. It is a security conundrum that isn't as easily solved as putting armed guards on planes. So far those armed guards have not exactly been effective. The shoe bomber was overwhelmed by unarmed passengers, while air marshals have killed at least one innocent unarmed passenger in Miami.