"Dumb and Dumber"- Are Americans hostile to knowledge?

[knight66]

   
    So if the British are now the former World Champions at humor about WWII and NAZIs in particular, all I can say is it was a good run while it lasted.

Really what I was taking issue with was the suggestion of a world war II preoccupation in the UK. A World Cup 66 obsession in parts of the community, yes unfortunately. But WWII is in more perspective.

Mike

[drogulus]

     While we're at it, does anyone else want to claim their country has been insulted? The last 2 feeble attempts at this claim show how pointless this is. It ends up saying more about the sensitivities of the offended than the enormity of the largely imaginary offense.

     Edit: We cross posted, Mike, so I'll just say time to move on, OK?

[paulb]

      I don't subscribe to collective guilt ideas. If Europeans don't want to joke about the war, I can think of reasons why that don't involve me thinking they're guilty of something. It's more a matter of attitudes Europeans have about the past than my ideas about them. They have no reason to care much about what Americans think. It's far more important what they think of each other.

      If you want to castigate a country in your "collective guilt" manner for an obsession with NAZIs and WWII pick on the British. They're the world champions at that sort of thing.

"if the geramn's want to joke about the war"

Read my post above on what reactions I saw in the german audience witnssing a  film on the concentration camps.
Masny americans' don't repress the tragedy of viet nam, or what we did to the american indian culture, mainly because many are not not up on the facts, nor are they concerned about either tragedy.
Few americans have any books on either war on their shelves, so its not a  matter of repression, its just ignorance.
germany is alot smaller country that the US and most  germans have better acess to being informed about the truth in schools.
Though it would be a  good idea if the US school systems did begin a  HS course dealing with the Viet nam and Indian wars perpetrated by the US military. Its time  that we face up to our truths, no matter how dark they are.
We can't condemn the german's and japanese for repressing and remaining in a  state of denial,  if at the same time we are afraid to look at our shadow.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Well, if we cut out all the speculation, generalisations and inacuracy here. The board would be pretty bare. 

Mike

That's assuming we WANT to be on the receiving end of a poster's "provocative" generalizations...

[Florestan]

The german's killed their greatest prophet and set up *the false prophet* in exchange.

May I ask you what writings of Nietzsche have you read and why his ideas attract you so much?

[paulb]

As an aside; M makes provocative generalisations and has a method of mixing fact with his opinion and putting it all across as fact. I have assumed it is part of his method of getting people to challenge him....he enjoys a good scrap.

Mike

This helps to xplain why he interjects wild ideas.

btw Mike, you may want to let us know how the brits are dealing with their guilt on the crimes committed against the Irish.

[knight66]

Paul,

What are you going on about? It is long past time where Germans and Germany should be discussed and referred to without dragging the second world war into it; as some kind of below the belt debating point. M is very robust; but just about anyone else would have made complaints by now. This harking on M's home country and what some people did or did not do and relating it in a slightly indirect way to traits you perceive in him is nothing short of UNACCEPTABLE.

Now, try some proper debating points would you.

Mike

[knight66]

btw Mike, you may want to let us know how the brits are dealing with their guilt on the crimes committed against the Irish.

Why exactly would I be wanting to open that bag of dirty potatoes? I have no interest in discussing this. I am not a spokesman for the nation.

Mike

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Why exactly would I be wanting to open that bag of dirty potatoes? I have no interest in discussing this. I am not a spokesman for the nation.

Mike

You are now getting a taste of what some of us have been dealing with right here on this thread (at the hands of M).

"Provocative" is what you call it...

[paulb]

May I ask you what writings of Nietzsche have you read and why his ideas attract you so much?

I am just starting into Nietzsche.
I am finishing up Jung's discussion of Zarathustra and have all of Nietzsche's books..
I know the man had his faults, mainly because he was a  man ahead of his time, no one could reflect back to him the wisdom he had.
Thus his neurosis got so bad  that eventually no one could approach him as a  friend.
He was not the most congenial person, but that was because everyone was so far outside his range of thinking.
I love Nietzsche because he was not afraid to look at the truth and lies no matter how deep and dark they were.
Likea   true hero, he made sacrifices and was truly prophetic about the german and european consciousness.
Jung takes *more of the side* (though Jung does say Nietzsche was  a  bright light shinning in a  sea of darkness) that he did it to himself, i take more the line that everyone were dullards and were afraid of their own shadows.

Nieztsche had gripes with Plato, that is disagreeable with me. He claims Socrates had too many ideas  about the *good*, and did not allow the dark to have its place. I 'm a  big fan of Socrates.

[paulb]

Why exactly would I be wanting to open that bag of dirty potatoes? I have no interest in discussing this. I am not a spokesman for the nation.

Mike

Use any analogy, EXCEPT always exclude the word *potatoes*.
Please.

[knight66]

You are now getting a taste of what some of us have been dealing with right here on this thread (at the hands of M).

"Provocative" is what you call it...

EDIT, Apologies to Donwin: My comments were directed to Paul.

And quite why would it be appropriate to give me a taste of something you don't like? If you don't like the way M communicates with you: deal with it. If it goes against the rules of the board, and you have both been mud slinging, let us know. But don't just redirect the creosote sprayer.

You are fast becoming the grit in the oyster here; except you are not helping to produce a pearl; just more grit.

Mike

[Florestan]

I am finishing up Jung's discussion of Zarathustra and have all of Nietzsche's books..

So you haven't read a single line by Nietzsche himself as yet, have you?

[paulb]

So you haven't read a single line by Nietzsche himself as yet, have you?

Jung quotes almost the entire Zarathustra in the seminar.
I've tried to read through the entire book, its too difficult.
I pick up the understanding as Jung's discusses all the main lines, which I read in the 1600 page seminar.
As to his other books, I take Nietzsche in small doses. reason being that I am german and a  christian, so Nietzsche is quite volatile.
I'm gald i did stay far from Nietzsche until now, this way my own thoughts had a  chance to develope on its own.
Nietzsche would have overwhelmed me earlier on.

Its doubtful I'll finish all his works, I have to find my own thoughts. But certainly Niezsche has beena   god-send, a  true prophet along side any of the great prophets in the old testament.

Man , how do you think Saul is gonna take that line

[knight66]

My apologies. My remarks were really directed at Paul. Esp the Grit. I am not aware of you mudslinging.

I have never said people should or should not challenge one another and if you don't like the style of M, don't rise to the bait. People here are perfectly able to decide what they think about a post without the detail of it being spread like entrails across a bed of lettuce.

Where I have made my feelings plain; is that the almost racial slurs ought to stop. If comments breach the rules here, in the Diner, we tend not to interfere unless there is a complaint or they become unacceptable. For the record; I don't like people calling one another hopeless fools either. I was already involved on the thread today when Paul made another set of what I feel are unethical remarks. I have explained it to him.

So, if there is anything you don't like, highlight it if it breaches the rules; if not deal with it or ignore it.

But don't shout foul because bad behaviour is pointed out.

Mike

[paulb]

I think everyone here has been on good behavoir.
The idea of the topic is that americans are not in touch with high knowledge, even basic knowledge which leads to higher truths.

The establsihment wants to keep it that way.
Ignorant herds are much more controlable vs a  herd with knowledge.

Why just yesterday I was posting on a Health Board , giving out many of my ideas about sexual health , and the mods quickly stepped in and permanently suspended my account.
Why?
Because if the truth about natural means to health becomes known, the med establishment stands to lose
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$..
Doctors and the MEDICAL INDUSTRY want the masses to remain stupid about naturapathic methods.

[Don]

Why just yesterday I was posting on a Health Board , giving out many of my ideas about sexual health

What are those ideas?

[Dancing Divertimentian]

My apologies. My remarks were really directed at Paul. Esp the Grit. I am not aware of you mudslinging.

OH!! Apologies for my part, too!

Where I have made my feelings plain; is that the almost racial slurs ought to stop.

Yes, that was my angle, too!

All the racial stuff from M and Greg got under my skin...

But don't shout foul because bad behaviour is pointed out.

Indeed.

[Lethevich]

Where I have made my feelings plain; is that the almost racial slurs ought to stop. If comments breach the rules here, in the Diner, we tend not to interfere unless there is a complaint or they become unacceptable.

I wonder if it would be possible to inact bans on posting in forum specific sections (such as the Diner) if a user transgresses too far?

[knight66]

Donwyn, Thanks very much.

Lethe, I think it is theoretically possible. We do have more liberal attitudes to the robustness of how we deal with one another on the Diner, but of course there are limits. Rob is reluctant to put the handcuffs on anyone. But really; if there is behaviour that breaches the rules, do let us know. I have sometimes wondered if I am over-reacting when I have done something, yet it surprised me there was no complaint.

Don....Why did you ask that? I will go get the high pressure water hose ready.

Cheers one and all,

Mike