Alfred Schnittke (1934-1998)

[bhodges]

So I've been in touch with Nathan Beach, who designed that Schnittke site, and he says there is some of his music in the new film, There Will Be Blood, but he can't figure out exactly what.  The soundtrack is mostly by Jonny Greenwood (of Radiohead) but apparently there is other music, too.  If anyone who has seen the film has any ideas, please post. 

--Bruce

[paulb]

So I've been in touch with Nathan Beach, who designed that Schnittke site, and he says there is some of his music in the new film, There Will Be Blood, but he can't figure out exactly what.  The soundtrack is mostly by Jonny Greenwood (of Radiohead) but apparently there is other music, too.  If anyone who has seen the film has any ideas, please post. 

--Bruce

Bruce thats for the link
I love the art work, and expresses the nature of Schnittke's music, ubiquitious , embracing all things, , un-definable.

Look forward to Nathan's  site once its complete.
I would hope Schnittke's music is respected and not used in soundtracks, which is commercialism.

[bhodges]

I would hope Schnittke's music is respected and not used in soundtracks, which is commercialism.

Well...yes, I see what you mean, but on the other hand, since many, many classical works are used with respect by the directors, I'd almost see it as complimentary, or even validation, if his works ARE used.  (Ponder for a moment what 2001: A Space Odyssey did for Ligeti.)  What is puzzling about There Will Be Blood is that every reference I've found notes Greenwood's music, but nothing by anyone else.  So if Greenwood is "channeling Schnittke" he's doing it very well (according to Beach).

--Bruce

[paulb]

Well...yes, I see what you mean, but on the other hand, since many, many classical works are used with respect by the directors, I'd almost see it as complimentary, or even validation, if his works ARE used.  (Ponder for a moment what 2001: A Space Odyssey did for Ligeti.)  What is puzzling about There Will Be Blood is that every reference I've found notes Greenwood's music, but nothing by anyone else.  So if Greenwood is "channeling Schnittke" he's doing it very well (according to Beach).

--Bruce

I was unaware of Ligeti's music in 2001, its been sometime since I saw the movie and was unaware of the music credits except for Strauss, Also spraech Zarathustra, which  loved in the movie. I don't care for ligeti, but will order the DVD to see how the music worked in.

So yes there is that valid point, the soundtarck being  a method  of introducing to those who woud most likely not make the "Schnittke discovery" anytime soon. But  i am of the belief ifa   composer if meant for you, the discovery will happen.

There is so much in Scnittke that could be used as soundtrack in modern film. And that thought often crossed my mind, just how much psychological impact this muisc offers, "the angst" or the german word gischt, meaning a  rushing up on energy from within., elan, enthusiasm.
And knowing Schnittke, he would want his muisc to be part of a  movie , provided the  substance of the movie
equals the creativity of the music. Schnittke was hip and cool and would be gald to see his music used in conjunction with other high art. He knew that  art really has no defined boundary lines and so if the film brings about something of high value, then sure why not include  his music.
Just the title There Will Be Blood, gives a  hint that we are in for a "treat".

Yes find out what Greenwood plans to do with Schnittke's muisc. "channeling", I would hope its more like a  direct full  play of a Schnittke  piece or movement and not a  collage of snippets from Schnittke.

paul

[not edward]

Schnittke appears popular in film these days: Volker Schlöndorff's Der Neunte Tag makes considerable use of the First Cello Concerto and First Concerto Grosso.

[paulb]

Schnittke appears popular in film these days: Volker Schlöndorff's Der Neunte Tag makes considerable use of the First Cello Concerto and First Concerto Grosso.

i'll keep an eye for the film.
What i meant about films of high value, meaning the subject matter and  production quality beyond what Hollow-Wood gives us. East european, german film makers is what crossed my mind, like this   Volker Schlondorff film sounds intreguing.

Listened to 1st CG today, what a  work!
can't recall knowing the 1st cello concerto. The 2nd CC is something that never fails to shock the sensibilities, beyond the everyday mind.

[paulb]

I love the Requiem . . . . . .

I would love to hear another recording of the Requiem. Nothing wrong with the Polyansky, just that i feel there's more that can be brought out.
i have 5 recordings of Rachmaninov's Vespers featuring  russian choirs,  the 1965 Svechnikov eclipsing the other 4.  I am hopeful there's other nuances that can be garnered from the Requiem.
Pentential Psalms is another powerful work that has not been given full justice.

Listening to Schnittke's 4th sym. I was going to do a  comparison with the Polyansky now playing and the Rozhdestvensky. can't do it, the work is just too overwhelming.
I've never had this experience before in my past critque of any recordings.
Give me some days / weeks, I'll listen to the Rozh.
The Polyansky has Three Sacred Hymns, the 3 timings are
1:28
2:04
4:29
Seemingly short works, yet extensive in  power, depth and emotional involvement.
Thats Schnittke for you. You will never be left disappointed.

[paulb]

bad news
the 4th vc/Kremer/Rozh that i TOLD EVERYONE about, has not arrived from the german seller, ...had i known he was in germany I'd have skipped his $25 listing and gone with the now too late sold $30 listing that i guess someone here picked up on, due to me posting that cd.
Now I'm stuck with the decision of paying the last listing at $65 or going w/o.
I'll choose the latter and wait til another $30 or $40 listing comes along.
I wrote the seller that it was possible our cd was on that 18 wheeler that crashed and burned near NO.

[greg]

I wrote the seller that it was possible our cd was on that 18 wheeler that crashed and burned near NO.

this is in a way, hilarious and sad at the same time. I bet Schnittke would've written an opera about this type of scenario.

[paulb]

this is in a way, hilarious and sad at the same time. I bet Schnittke would've written an opera about this type of scenario.

Yes that was the mind of Schnittke, takinga  common episode and transforming it into a  musical idea. But explosive, seeing into the tragedies of life, Xray vision, spiritual man he certainly was.
One could only imagine had he lived in new orleans and experienced katrina and the aftermath what music would have come forth from this experience.
New Orleans has all the material fora   requiem, or better a   dirge.

[greg]

Yes that was the mind of Schnittke, takinga  common episode and transforming it into a  musical idea. But explosive, seeing into the tragedies of life, Xray vision, spiritual man he certainly was.
One could only imagine had he lived in new orleans and experienced katrina and the aftermath what music would have come forth from this experience.
New Orleans has all the material fora   requiem, or better a   dirge.

yeah, i could imagine it now! Requiem For New Orleans, which throws in Jazz tunes and violent string clusters thrown around...... he could get a lot of the material from his 1st Symphony. Or you could listen to the 1st Symphony and pretend that it's called "Requiem For New Orleans"
i do stuff like that sometimes 

[paulb]

yeah, i could imagine it now! Requiem For New Orleans, which throws in Jazz tunes and violent string clusters thrown around...... he could get a lot of the material from his 1st Symphony. Or you could listen to the 1st Symphony and pretend that it's called "Requiem For New Orleans"
i do stuff like that sometimes 

I did happen to find that i have a  copy of scnittke's 1st sym. you know as much as post about his music, I'm still ina   learning phase, his music is so overwhelming, at times i can't recall if i heard   certain work or not. I'm not one to so quickly graba   Schnittke cd and play it. Its very challenging , demands that only  one other composer i know of has this sense of sheer power to overwhelm.
So I have it and am now listening to his 1st sym, scored 1969-1972. I was a  bit skeptical and unsure that his first efforts at a  sym would be able to capture the sheer power and destruction of the largest hurricane to hit american shores since record keeping.
Yes i hear the jazzy tunes 1st movement/13:20.
Right at the start of the sym, the feelings that gripped me as Katrina was bearing down at 4 am has been revived.
Greg I do believe we have found a
Requiem For New Orleans

I'll post notes later........

[paulb]

Greg go ck my further thoughts on Schnittke's unreal 1st over at the topic, about ensuring modern day concerts/general topic board.
Schnittke, always full of surprises. had this 1st sym for awhile, but was unaware of its power and dynamics.
You know we all tend to think of composers 1st's as just testing their wings. hardly ever a  1st thats a  blockbuster. Sibelius Kullervo comes to mind as a  rare exception, its quite a  magnificent score.
Schnittke starts right off with his usual flare of highly changed polytonal mastery. Composed in 1969-1972. The same yrs Pettersson was really comming into his own mastery of orchestral shapings.

The 4th movement  10:30-12:27, stright up Bourbon Street Jazz,!! the end of 12:27 sounds likea   motif on When The Saints Go Marching In  (NO Saints theme song!!)  Man did you ever pick the most ideal work as
Requiem For The City Of New Orleans

UNREAL

[not edward]

I think it's fairly uncontroversial to consider that the first symphony can be regarded to a large extent as a requiem: the composer was clear that in part he regarded the work as a lament over the tragedies of the 20th century, ending with the question "What next?"

[paulb]

I think it's fairly uncontroversial to consider that the first symphony can be regarded to a large extent as a requiem: the composer was clear that in part he regarded the work as a lament over the tragedies of the 20th century, ending with the question "What next?"

I was editing my post , when you wrote your entriguing ideas.

Thank  you for this imput. Where did you find this insightful info as to the idea behind  the work?
not sure if you know Schnittke was a  highly intuitive and a  mind capable of expressing profound religious ideas.
IOW he was in touch with  the "underground" <<<umtergrundbewejungen>>>.means underground movements, things out of sight to normal vision.

The zeitgeist of New Orleans is expressed in the 1st.

So could it remotely possible that Schnittke by including the Bourbon Street Jazz, as tapping into a  future cataclysmic (man thats a  hard word to spell) event?
I would say if you want to get the giest of the trauma and after shock, this 1st captures the essense of the inexpressible.
The helter skelter bells 4thmovement/24th minute. THAT IS NEW ORLEANS right now.

[not edward]

Thank  you for this imput. Where did you find this insightful info as to the idea behind  the work?

I suspect that it's in Ivashkin's biography of Schnittke (I've not looked at this book in quite a while, though). It did also come up during a roundtable discussion with the Schnittke student Gerald McBurney at a performance I attended in London many years ago.

[paulb]

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[paulb]

To acheive better resolution
click on the scan .0005 and then will ask to open file. From there you can use mouse to go where it says slide show.

[greg]

interesting posts, Paul and Edward.


Did you know, Paul, that in the 1st movement, the orchestra actually starts it by walking onstage while playing their instruments, improvising, and then eventually walks offstage and then onstage again? Must be something to see live! 

[paulb]

interesting posts, Paul and Edward.


Did you know, Paul, that in the 1st movement, the orchestra actually starts it by walking onstage while playing their instruments, improvising, and then eventually walks offstage and then onstage again? Must be something to see live! 

Unreal how Schnittke innovates and always full of surprises.
The 1st sym fits like a  glove the city of new orleans tragedy.

Could someone do a  favor and pull out their 3rd vc, Kremer/Warner Classics and compare with their Kagan/Live Classics 3rd vc.
For some reason the Kagan "clicks" with me, vs my faint recall of the Kremer, which didn't go over well for some reason.. I think Kremer did not have the same backup forces as does Kagan with an all russian collaboration.
I had that 4 vc set/Kremer/Warner but sold it off at $35, last year
The other day there was one listing at $200, now I see one at $100. and the 2/3 vc/Kremer/Warner is like $14.
I really want the 4th/Kremer/Rozh  but its way down on my wish list budget.
I am holding out hope that one day i will snag that 4th with rozh. I know its the 'real deal" and a  bargain at $65/amazon.