Alfred Schnittke (1934-1998)

[Scarpia]

Does anyone here like the First Symphony (a piece I have not heard, BTW)?

; )

One Amazon reviewer of the Chandos recording say he'd give it 20 stars (on a scale of 5) if it were possible.  I'm intrigued.  I picked up that BIS set a short while ago and have yet to crack it open.

[Sergeant Rock]

I find Schnittke somewhat similar to Brian in that his lunacy is considered an endearing quality by enthusiasts.

I wouldn't call it lunacy but certainly Brian's idiosyncratic symphonic style is appealing.

Sarge

[DavidW]

Schnittke doesn't strike me as odd in the way that Brian does.  In fact Schnittke is not really that weird.  He has one interesting and unique compositional technique, and comparing him to Brian seems inappropriate.

[karlhenning]

One Amazon reviewer of the Chandos recording say he'd give it 20 stars (on a scale of 5) if it were possible.  I'm intrigued.  I picked up that BIS set a short while ago and have yet to crack it open.

200 . . . and he starts his review:

Of all the pieces written for orchestra, none equal Alfred Schnittke's "Symphony No. 1."

Well, I tend to blench at this sort of enthusiasm. But I can see where one might be intrigued . . . .

[Lethevich]

One Amazon reviewer of the Chandos recording say he'd give it 20 stars (on a scale of 5) if it were possible.  I'm intrigued.  I picked up that BIS set a short while ago and have yet to crack it open.

If you do dislike the first, head straight for no.8 before giving up (I wish MI would ;_; ) - like many composers Schnittke's temperament and manner evolved substantially over his lifetime, and a lot of what may be found objectional about the first is not present in his late style.

My initial probably hot-headed response to MI which triggered this extended discussion was mainly down to my frustration about the situation presented to me. Essentially: putting a composer aside is fine, and often essential to maintaining the potential to enjoy them in future, but basically - anybody who asks somebody who likes Schnittke for a "top 10" of their favourite pieces or discs will mention very few symphonies in that list.

That Schnittke wrote a lot of symphonies some of which did not find him at his best, and some of which could not be considered great simply because of the style he chose to write them in, perhaps this is his fault. But at the same time, something feels a little off about offering a "verdict", however subjectively personal, based on material that any person would advise a listener new to the composer to avoid.

[DavidW]

anybody who asks somebody who likes Schnittke for a "top 10" of their favourite pieces or discs will mention very few symphonies in that list.

I know that includes me, I would list chamber works and concertos.

[karlhenning]

What would your Schnittke "top 10" be, Sara? Or I guess maybe here is where you would largely cast those votes.

[karlhenning]

Well, I tend to blench at this sort of enthusiasm. (. . . .)

That said, though . . . I am curious even about the First Symphony, now.

[DavidW]

What would your Schnittke "top 10" be, Sara? Or I guess maybe here is where you would largely cast those votes.

Oh I think that is pretty much my list as well.  The only difference is that I haven't heard Peer Gynt, guess I should.

[Lethevich]

I should note that the symphony no.0 is probably his most appealing work to somebody who doesn't particularly enjoy the composer. It's a very catchy Shostakovich pastiche.

What would your Schnittke "top 10" be, Sara? Or I guess maybe here is where you would largely cast those votes.

Already I am cheating Not 10 pieces or 10 discs, but 10 discs worth of music:

The four string quartets (a remarkably coherent cycle from beginning to end - not in style, but in the seriousness that he approaches each piece with)
The piano quintet
The string/piano trio
The cello sonatas (imperfect music, but the cello reflects the composer's essence very well)
Concerto grosso no.1 and 3
Peer Gynt
Psalms of Repentance
Choir Concerto
Viola concerto
The 8th symphony
The 2nd cello concerto

The latter two (or maybe three) will need a particular sympathy with the composer to enjoy, which makes them an awkward recommendation, but they are works in which the composer seems to remove his skin (the shielding we build up around our personality to keep us safe from perceived attacks from people discovering too much about us) and expose every nerve for examination - it almost feels sadistic to try to criticise them, especially the cello concerto.

[Mirror Image]

The latter two (or maybe three) will need a particular sympathy with the composer to enjoy, which makes them an awkward recommendation, but they are works in which the composer seems to remove his skin (the shielding we build up around our personality to keep us safe from perceived attacks from people discovering too much about us) and expose every nerve for examination - it almost feels sadistic to try to criticise them, especially the cello concerto.

I feel this way about some of Ravel's music particularly in the slow, more lyrical sections of his music like the last movement of Ma Mere L'Oye where the strings just play this absolutely heart-wrenchingly beautiful melody or like in L'Enfant et les sortileges where in last movement everything becomes just so otherworldly with some of the most gorgeous melodies Ravel ever wrote. Ravel wasn't a composer that let his guard down very much, but when he did it revealed so much about the man behind the music.

[not edward]

The symphonies definitely aren't the best of Schnittke, and I'd always counsel people to explore the chamber music and concerti first. The first symphony I like in a "staring at a massive road accent manner", but it's very much an acquired taste, while I find the second and third pretty dull. I think he comes a bit closer to hitting his stride in the rest of the symphonies, though the static nature of the fourth again limits its appeal, and the extreme bleakness and sparseness of the later symphonies mean they're definitely not music for every day. The 9th is a strange work, but that's hardly surprising given that he was almost totally paralysed and his short-term memory was shot at the time he scribbled down his sketches for it. (It also has to be said that both extant recordings of the 9th appear to totally ignore the composer's tempo indications.)

If I had to single out a single movement from one of the symphonies to represent Schnittke at his best, I'd choose the first movement of the 8th (which, along with the 7th, would be my favourite of the nine). But for a new listener, the first violin sonata, the piano quintet, the 2nd and 3rd string quartets, the string trio, the concerto for piano and strings and the viola concerto would, I think, all provide much greater rewards, as would Peer Gynt.

[Scarpia]

I'm recovering memories of loving a cello concerto, but that was listened to quite a while ago.

[ibanezmonster]

Does anyone here like the First Symphony (a piece I have not heard, BTW)?

; )

Me. It might even be my favorite Schnittke piece, with the 1st Chamber Concerto and Piano Concerto close behind.
It's like a journey through the whole universe, and by the time I'm done, I'm exhausted.

[eyeresist]

Glad to see a bit of a consensus emerging here. My first encounter with Schnittke was sampling his viola concerto (ECM) in a record shop. It made a strong impression. I subsequently acquired symphonies 1-4 conducted by Rozdhy (Venezia), but never warmed to them. For all their length and complexity, they seemed gimmicky and lacking depth. But based on the above recommendations I obviously should be barking up a different tree! I do prefer orchestral music, so I'll look at acquiring the string concertos and the 8th symphony.

Recommendations for recordings? I note three for the 8th.

[Mirror Image]

Glad to see a bit of a consensus emerging here. My first encounter with Schnittke was sampling his viola concerto (ECM) in a record shop. It made a strong impression. I subsequently acquired symphonies 1-4 conducted by Rozdhy (Venezia), but never warmed to them. For all their length and complexity, they seemed gimmicky and lacking depth. But based on the above recommendations I obviously should be barking up a different tree! I do prefer orchestral music, so I'll look at acquiring the string concertos and the 8th symphony.

Recommendations for recordings? I note three for the 8th.

Tonight I'm going to listen to the 8th, I'll let you know what I think of it, eyeresist. Many people have recommended this symphony to me before.

[not edward]

Recommendations for recordings? I note three for the 8th.

I'd go for Polyansky, though the coupling is nothing special. Others might prefer Rozhdestvensky. Jia on Bis is uncompetitive.

[eyeresist]

Yes, it looks like the Bis recordings have come in for a lot of criticism. A shame, as they did make a serious effort to record this little known oeuvre.

[Sylph]

What is the name of his Orthodox sacred music work? Well, one of those he wrote? Stikheira?

[Sylph]

Oops! No, that was Rodion Ščedrin!