Alfred Schnittke (1934-1998)

[Scarpia]

Which recording do you have of the 'cello sonatas? I've tended to prefer Ivashkin, though his performances are painfully intense.

I've just been revisiting the Gutman/Rozhdestvensky recording of the first 'cello concerto. Good as other performances are, Gutman simply owns this work IMO. I've got this recording and a live one that appeared on the short-lived Russian Revelation recording and they are simply in a different class.

I have Ivanshkin, but I have a notion of getting the BIS recording as well.  Gutman would be interesting but I haven't seen it, I should look.

[not edward]

I have Ivanshkin, but I have a notion of getting the BIS recording as well.  Gutman would be interesting but I haven't seen it, I should look.

There's a cheap reissue on Regis/Alto of the Gutman studio recording, coupled with the first Bashmet viola concerto. Be aware that it's in Real Soviet Sound (tm), though.

[Scarpia]

What is the Gogol suite like?

[Lethevich]

It is typical Schnittke, as you described the double piano concerto - but (again, typical of Schnittke) it sounds nothing like that piece It is the composer at his more pictoral and puckish - little scenic numbers with great quality.

The suite was later expanded through a process I am not fully down on (it seems to have had a complex gestation) into his ballet "Esquisses" and in some sense duplicates that - but suite is more widely recorded than the ballet, so even if you do opt for the latter, you will possibly end up with a disc featuring the suite too. Brilliant Classics recently reissued an OOP Russian recording of the ballet under its English translation "Sketches".

[eyeresist]

I just posted in a different thread about listening to the 1st symphony - the programmatic elements are the weakest part, i.e. the wackiness of the 1st movement and the jazz improv of the 2nd. Second half of the symphony is more successful, I think. He almost out-apocalypses Mahler! And I do think Mahler's "everything in the world coming to its end" idea is applicable here.

I listened to the Segerstam recording and then to Rozhdestvensky's first (I'm not sure if the Chandos is a different performance; there seems to be some confusion as to dates and orchestras). Segerstam has better sound, but the jazz section is insufferably long. Also, he buries detail. There is a quote from Tchaikovsky's piano concerto at the beginning of the 4th movement, but this is inaudible under Segerstam.

Rozdhy's performance seems the stronger to me, more incisive, and as I said the details are clearer. Sadly, the recording suffers from grotesque spotlighting issues. The difference between the in-your-face solo instruments and the muted orchestra in the background is so extreme as to make listening a chore.

Possibly the Chandos will be closer to the ideal. Has anyone heard all these recordings?

[Scarpia]

Listened to Schnittke's Violin concerto no 1, Lubotsky on BIS.  A fascinating piece.  This is a student work, revised somewhat later, and was written before Schnittke developed his more idiosyncratic techniques, but is still a very original piece.  The soloist and orchestra are partners, rather than adversaries as is typical with the later concertos.  But the themes are developed in a very interesting way.  The performance is very good, and the recorded sound very natural and vibrant, as is usually the case with BIS recordings.

[asin]B0000016GL[/asin]

[eyeresist]

Possibly the Chandos will be closer to the ideal. Has anyone heard all these recordings?

The Chandos liner notes state this is Rozdhy's second recording. I was confused because it is the same recording team, and only the following year from the previous one (Penguin guide says it was rec. 1996, which is not true!). I listened to the Amazon samples, and of course it's much smoother than the Melodiya. Some of the aggression of the original recording is lost, but I think that's unavoidable. This is now on my wishlist.

I can't believe I'm actually liking this stuff.

[karlhenning]

I just posted in a different thread about listening to the 1st symphony - the programmatic elements are the weakest part, i.e. the wackiness of the 1st movement and the jazz improv of the 2nd.

Very interesting reaction!  I haven't troubled with programmatic elements at all, really, and taking the whole work on its own musical terms, I find I like the whole.

[karlhenning]

Cross-posted from WAYLT:

The travesty was Rozhdestvensky's performance of the [Schnittke Ninth] in '98. which circulated around the net in execrable sound for a while. It patched bits of Schnittke's other works into the unreadable passages of the score, and allegedly helped drive the already extremely ill Schnittke--who became extremely agitated after hearing the recording--to his grave.

The current version, decoded/completed by Alexander Raskatov, seems more consistent, but I'm not impressed with either recording thus far. Schnittke had apparently wanted it to start very slowly but have a constant feel of acceleration: both recordings take the first movement too fast and the last movement too slowly for that, in my opinion.

I don't think the work lives up to the "trilogy", as it were, of 6-8, but I think the currently extant recordings don't help. (Paging Ondine, paging Eri Klas!)

[Scarpia]

After listening to Schnittke's violin concerto #1 for the 3rd or 4th time, I've really developed a fascination with this piece.  A relatively convention structure with Schnittke "lunacy" sprouting up here and there.  One thing I've noticed in Schnittke is his orchestration almost always eschews conventional effects, the first violin section is almost never declaiming an important melody in the conventional way, for instance.  But in this very early work we actually hear the strings playing in unison for a grand statement of his quirky melody.   

[eyeresist]

Cross-posted from WAYLT:

I agree with what I've read on Amazon about the tempos needed for the 9th, i.e. slower in the first two, especially the first, which really should be a typical Schnittke adagio - we know what that sounds like, so there should be no confusion.

I've been gradually exploring my BIS box. So far, it is the first three symphonies I like the most. In 4, the sung part often sounds very silly to me, which is a drawback. I haven't given 5 much attention yet, but it seems to me the least "serious" of the symphonies. The later symphonies just haven't made a strong impression on me. They don't seem to have the cyclical unity of the earlier ones, nor the memorable moments. I suppose it's possible Polyansky does better here, though from what I've heard of his work elsewhere I suspect his efforts in Schnittke have been a little overhyped.

Back to the 9th, I found Arwel Hughes unsatisfactory in this and the 0th. If Polyansky gets those tempos right, he will certainly be the preferable option in 9.

[Mirror Image]

I wonder how DavidW is getting on with the Schnittke BIS set I sent him?

[not edward]

II suppose it's possible Polyansky does better here, though from what I've heard of his work elsewhere I suspect his efforts in Schnittke have been a little overhyped.

It's not so much that Polyansky is so good but that IMO the BIS 6th and 8th are dismal runthroughs of works that need to be played with some level of conviction. The BIS 7th comes over better in my view because it's a very understated work (and I'm unconvinced with Polyansky here because he overplays a lot of it).

[eyeresist]

It's not so much that Polyansky is so good but that IMO the BIS 6th and 8th are dismal runthroughs of works that need to be played with some level of conviction. The BIS 7th comes over better in my view because it's a very understated work (and I'm unconvinced with Polyansky here because he overplays a lot of it).

Hmm, I suppose on the Bis release the 7th is rather overshadowed by the preceding 3rd.

We are all waiting for the Chandos box!

[DavidW]

I wonder how DavidW is getting on with the Schnittke BIS set I sent him?

It is good, thank you again for sending it to me.  The 7th is my favorite symphony but overall I consider symphonies 6-8 as the superior symphonies, and I like the other ones but not as much.

[Mirror Image]

It is good, thank you again for sending it to me.  The 7th is my favorite symphony but overall I consider symphonies 6-8 as the superior symphonies, and I like the other ones but not as much.

Glad you're enjoying the music more than I did.

[eyeresist]

Cross-posted from WAYLT:

This quote from Edward:
"The travesty was Rozhdestvensky's performance of the [Schnittke Ninth] in '98. which circulated around the net in execrable sound for a while. It patched bits of Schnittke's other works into the unreadable passages of the score, and allegedly helped drive the already extremely ill Schnittke--who became extremely agitated after hearing the recording--to his grave."

How can this story be true? Was there really a 9th completed by another hand performed before Schnittke was even dead - in his very presence, even? What is the source of this story?


I've been comparing samples at Amazon (so all of the following opinions are provisional and qualified). It does indeed seem that the 8th is the dud of the BIS set - not so much that it is bad, but it is taken in a very "objective" way, a view that is perhaps valid but which is quickly blown away by more passionate performances.
6 and 7 conducted by Otaka seem to me as good as the Polyansky recordings. The Chandos has perhaps more vivid sound, but Polyansky's orchestra seems to be at a slightly lower level.
Unfortunately I was unable to compare Jarvi's 5th with the Chailly recording. Has anyone heard the Chailly?

[Scarpia]

We are all waiting for the Chandos box!

Not me, I have not been impressed with Polyanski's recordings and prefer the BIS recording whenever I have had a comparison.

[eyeresist]

I agree that Polyansky's performances often seem a bit rough. People seem impressed by Chandos's in-your-face technicolor sound, as opposed to BIS's which is more natural and arguably a bit soft-edged. It's a damn shame Chandos hasn't allowed Rozhdestvensky to record the entire cycle.

BTW, I found the (a) source for the story of the 9th: this obituary in the NY Times.

The Ninth was presented in Moscow last year, in a version by Mr. Rozhdestvensky that interpolated quotes from other composers' works. But there is no indication in the manuscript of any intention other than a stylistically consistent, through-composed work. Mr. Rozhdestvensky's rendering seems to turn Schnittke into a commodity: the composer is best known for mixing styles, so let's give listeners what they expect.

Schnittke was too ill to attend the performance; those close to him report that when he heard a tape, he was livid at the corruption. Some 10 days later, he suffered a stroke from which he never recovered. The Ninth Symphony was originally scheduled for the same Concertgebouw concerts as the Eighth, but performances of this version are now forbidden by the estate.

I'm still unsure of the veracity of this story. It just seems too fantastical. It certainly puts a bad light on Rozhdy, who was one of Schnittke's great supporters.

[not edward]

Unfortunately I was unable to compare Jarvi's 5th with the Chailly recording. Has anyone heard the Chailly?

Yes. It's outstanding and a very easy recommendation for the 5th.

As for the Rozhdestvensky abomination, I'll upload it for evidence later today.