Alfred Schnittke (1934-1998)

[not edward]

Here we go: https://rapidshare.com/files/1458744900/Symphony_No_9__inauthentic_edition_.MP3

It's hard to say what's worse: the terrible sound quality or the terrible things Rozhdestvensky did to the score.

[eyeresist]

When I got home last night, I realised I'd left my BIS box at work - grrr!

So I listened to my Rozhdy recording of the 4th. It is a peculiar work, and I don't much like it (though the awful mix of this particular record might be part of the reason). At the end, it suddenly gets good, when the choir comes in, and then the section with the chimes and gongs - very atmospheric. Then at the end he goes and ruins it - "I am Schnittke!"

[Mirror Image]

Bought these two sets tonight, I didn't much care for the symphonies, so I went outside, which, from what I'm told, is where most of Schnittke's best music lies:

[asin]B0000016LC[/asin]
[asin]B000006E4L[/asin]

Perhaps some of our resident Schnittke fans could tell me if I've done good in selecting these recordings? Where should I go next?

[Mirror Image]

This is just so haunting to me...

http://www.youtube.com/v/HKVhi-VbNqs&feature=related

[not edward]

Peer Gynt no question; many people would probably rate it as Schnittke's finest work; the second and third quartets are also very fine.

Throw in the piano quintet and string trio and you have most of his best chamber music (the first two violin sonatas are also excellent in my opinion, even if the second is arguably the single most abrasive work Schnittke ever wrote).

[Mirror Image]

Peer Gynt no question; many people would probably rate it as Schnittke's finest work; the second and third quartets are also very fine.

Throw in the piano quintet and string trio and you have most of his best chamber music (the first two violin sonatas are also excellent in my opinion, even if the second is arguably the single most abrasive work Schnittke ever wrote).

Thanks for your suggestions, Edward. I'm always willing to find works by composers that I don't necessarily enjoy, but I have to say that listening to Peer Gynt on YouTube made me realize that my opinion of Schnittke was done is total ignorance and haste. Here I was judging this composer solely by his symphonies, which I still haven't really given a chance yet, but the next recordings I buy of any of his symphonies will be on Chandos which I read are leaps and bounds ahead of their BIS competition.

By the way, a few years ago, the London Philharmonic under Vladimir Jurowski put together a whole festival playing Schnittke's music called Between Two Worlds. I bet that was something to behold! Even though I didn't enjoy the work on initial hearing, I bet Symphony No. 1 sounds absolutely insane live.

[eyeresist]

MI, can I ask how much of the BIS box you listened to? I had the impression you only listened to one or two symphonies.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Perhaps some of our resident Schnittke fans could tell me if I've done good in selecting these recordings? Where should I go next?

You done good. Real good 

Agree with Edward that the 2nd and 3rd quartets are the standouts. The other two are problematic, tho' I like to listen to them from time to time. (Hey, I thought you didn't like chamber music?)

Peer Gynt is one of the best things composed by anyone in the last 30 years.

As to "where next?", maybe the viola or cello concertos.

[Mirror Image]

MI, can I ask how much of the BIS box you listened to? I had the impression you only listened to one or two symphonies.

I only listened to the first three symphonies (I think). Not much at all and certainly not enough to make a fair, accurate judgement on any of them.

[Mirror Image]

You done good. Real good 

Agree with Edward that the 2nd and 3rd quartets are the standouts. The other two are problematic, tho' I like to listen to them from time to time. (Hey, I thought you didn't like chamber music?)

Peer Gynt is one of the best things composed by anyone in the last 30 years.

As to "where next?", maybe the viola or cello concertos.

This is good to know, Velimir. Thanks for your suggestions. I never said I didn't like chamber music. I said it wasn't a favorite genre of mine, but only in the past year have I found some works that I've really enjoyed listening to like those chamber works of Debussy, Ravel, and Poulenc, but before these composers, I really liked Bax's chamber music. I've also been giving the Villa-Lobos, Shostakovich, and Bartok SQs a fair shake in the past year.

[DavidW]

I only listened to the first three symphonies (I think). Not much at all and certainly not enough to make a fair, accurate judgement on any of them.

I generally like Schnittke, but those aren't great works.  I think you're fooled by the blind adoration some posters have for every scrap that he wrote.

The sets you bought has imo much better music, the Kronos Quartet is one of my favorite ensembles too and they will make Schnittke sing for you!!!

[karlhenning]

I generally like Schnittke, but those aren't great works.

I like the First quite well, but no, I shouldn't try to make the case that it is a Great Symphony. (I haven't heard either the Second or the Third . . . .)

[not edward]

I like the First quite well, but no, I shouldn't try to make the case that it is a Great Symphony. (I haven't heard either the Second or the Third . . . .)

The First is definitely one of those works that make much less impression at home than live (guess who was in London for part of the Schnittke festival a few years back that MI mentioned). I'd certainly prefer it to the Second--which I think consensus regards as the weakest in the cycle--or the Third, which I've never warmed to.

The 4th through 8th are definitely stronger (nos 6-8 forming a sort of terribly bleak trilogy where for the most part all the filler material has been taken out and there's nothing left but the skeleton of a symphony). The 8th is the consensus pick for the best of the cycle (avoid the BiS recordings of it and the 6th, which are complete turkeys IMO); I would probably say I prefer the 7th by a fraction--it's an odd work even for Schnittke, but is a classic example to me of Luke's point about works that are completely unsymphonic on the surface, yet deeply symphonic underneath.

[Mirror Image]

I generally like Schnittke, but those aren't great works.  I think you're fooled by the blind adoration some posters have for every scrap that he wrote.

The sets you bought has imo much better music, the Kronos Quartet is one of my favorite ensembles too and they will make Schnittke sing for you!!!

Yeah, like I said, I needed to get away from his symphonies and listen to his other music, which he was quite prolific so there's still a lot listen to. I'll probably go with the concertos next.

[DavidW]

Then MI I rec the viola concerto. 0:)

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Then MI I rec the viola concerto. 0:)

Yeah, Edward recommended the Viola Concerto as well. I'll head there next. Thanks.

[karlhenning]

The First is definitely one of those works that make much less impression at home than live (guess who was in London for part of the Schnittke festival a few years back that MI mentioned). I'd certainly prefer it to the Second--which I think consensus regards as the weakest in the cycle--or the Third, which I've never warmed to.

The 4th through 8th are definitely stronger (nos 6-8 forming a sort of terribly bleak trilogy where for the most part all the filler material has been taken out and there's nothing left but the skeleton of a symphony). The 8th is the consensus pick for the best of the cycle (avoid the BiS recordings of it and the 6th, which are complete turkeys IMO); I would probably say I prefer the 7th by a fraction--it's an odd work even for Schnittke, but is a classic example to me of Luke's point about works that are completely unsymphonic on the surface, yet deeply symphonic underneath.

Thanks, Edward.

[Mirror Image]

Just bought:





Any thoughts on these two recordings? I listened to 15 minutes worth of Symphony No. 8 on Naxos Music Library and really liked what I heard. A haunting work. Can't wait to hear these.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Any thoughts on these two recordings? I listened to 15 minutes worth of Symphony No. 8 on Naxos Music Library and really liked what I heard. A haunting work. Can't wait to hear these.

I've got both of 'em. Once again, you done good 

The Rostropovich disc was the first Schnittke recording I ever got. I think the 2nd Cello Cto. is not quite as strong as the 1st, but it's still a good piece, esp. the long passacaglia finale. The coupled In Memoriam is an orchestration of one of his best chamber works, the Piano Quintet, and is a fine work in its own right, bringing a whole world of sound beyond what a quintet can achieve.

The 8th Symphony is one of his best late works, and may be his best symphony overall. Yeah, it's a haunting work, similar in spirit to late Shostakovich.

[not edward]

Pretty much agree with everything Velimir says.

I don't personally like the 2nd cello concerto (the first four movements seem a bit routine to me, even if the finale is strikingly memorable) but I appear to be in the very strong minority in that regard. In Memoriam is certainly extremely powerful--but do hear the original version of this, the piano quintet.

The 8th symphony is a fascinating and unsettling beast; with the exception of the two scherzi every movement subverts itself at every opportunity. Rare enough in itself is the use of passacaglia form for the first movement (how many first movement passacaglias are there in the symphonic literature? the only other one I can think of is Dutilleux's 1st) that climaxes at a roughly golden section point in the movement--except that the climax comes well before the center of the movement and the rest of the movement has the music slowly freezing over till nothing is left (incidentally, this movement is a superb counter to the claims I've seen that Schnittke is a poor orchestrator--it's an absolute marvel of choosing the right timbre at the right moment). The slow movement keeps feeling as if it is about to open out into Brucknerian lyricism, except that it never does; the 'big tune' is presented again and again in a bare, stark manner and never developed, while the finale completely elides all the questions posed by the previous movements by being one and a half minutes long, consisting of nothing but the ascending modal (crud, I want to say Lydian, but don't remember) scale from the end of Peer Gynt. The 6th concerto grosso isn't anything like as ambitious but it's an underrated piece; terse, sometimes vehement, sometimes bleak, and making its point very clearly.

[Random aside regarding the 8th: about a decade ago or so I was listening to this work with a musician friend, and a few minutes into the slow movement she had to stop listening; for her it had evoked all too painfully the experience of being severely clinically depressed and unable to respond emotionally to things she had previously regarded as beautiful.]