J.S. Bach on the Organ

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

Houlihan's Bach. I listened to the G Major trio sonata, I was hoping for something interesting because on his website he says

However I didn't notice anything special.

I thought the first movement was underarticulated and a bit breathless, with undistinguished rubato and not much by way of interesting voicing. The largo was kaleidoscopic and IMO the music just never came off the page, this is partly because Houlihan doesn't seem to able to create a meaningful relation between the voices. I thought the brash registrations in the allegro, and the speed, was irredeemably vulgar, like circus music.

Thank you for the critique. It is insightful and informative. As for the Costin recording, I am not big fan of the registrations though his performance evinces his command and musical ideas. He recorded GV as well.

[prémont]

Quinney played at the wedding of Prince William and Princess. I thought you found his playing too fast.
http://www.theroyalforums.com/22452-musicians-for-the-wedding-of-prince-william-and-catherine-middleton/

Fast, but not hectic.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

Good effort though some pieces are simply not for organ arrangements.

[bioluminescentsquid]

Good effort though some pieces are simply not for organ arrangements.

Agreed. Deserves a "you tried" prize.

[milk]

New one.

[asin]B01N4225YS[/asin]

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

And in mp3 sound the historical organs do not sound the way they deserve.

Do you suggest that we should listen to them in CD format with a decent audio system?
I mainly use iPod bluetoothed to a decent 90s Sony system. Some of the works are digital files I bought at Amazon etc.
Perhaps, should I purchase my favorite recordings in CD format？
Also, I am curious about other members' audio system.
Thanks.

[SurprisedByBeauty]

Also, I am curious about other members' audio system.
Thanks.

There's a thread which will cover some of that:

voila: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1069.0.html

Do you suggest that we should listen to them in CD format with a decent audio system?
I mainly use iPod bluetoothed to a decent 90s Sony system. Some of the works are digital files I bought at Amazon etc.
Perhaps, should I purchase my favorite recordings in CD format？

I'm not even sure if you are being facetious or not, to be honest. 

But assuming you're not: Yes. Especially organ (among a few other genres; or each, really, in its own way), which makes particular demands on speakers and amplification.

A nice extension down to the bass is nice to have, for one... and not many speakers really go as low as a pipe organ can. That's not as dramatic as it sounds, since the ears can be easily fooled into hearing very low notes, but it's even nicer to actually feel them. And the wealth of overtones and the nuance a good instrument can produce is also nice to pick up... and a detailed sound re-production will make you hear much more nuances. MP3s take away some of that. They're not as bad as they are sometimes made out to be (we've had an interesting blind-listening comparative test, some years back at GMG, and I think the consensus was that you CAN hear the difference... but that it's not as obvious as you'd have thought and becomes more obvious perhaps on extended exposure. (The slightly fuzzy field of 'audio fatigue'.)

In any case, organ music would be among the more obvious kind of music to benefit from a decent (and better) audio system being fed the full information a CD can provide.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

There's a thread which will cover some of that:

voila: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1069.0.html

I'm not even sure if you are being facetious or not, to be honest. 

But assuming you're not: Yes. Especially organ (among a few other genres; or each, really, in its own way), which makes particular demands on speakers and amplification.

A nice extension down to the bass is nice to have, for one... and not many speakers really go as low as a pipe organ can. That's not as dramatic as it sounds, since the ears can be easily fooled into hearing very low notes, but it's even nicer to actually feel them. And the wealth of overtones and the nuance a good instrument can produce is also nice to pick up... and a detailed sound re-production will make you hear much more nuances. MP3s take away some of that. They're not as bad as they are sometimes made out to be (we've had an interesting blind-listening comparative test, some years back at GMG, and I think the consensus was that you CAN hear the difference... but that it's not as obvious as you'd have thought and becomes more obvious perhaps on extended exposure. (The slightly fuzzy field of 'audio fatigue'.)

In any case, organ music would be among the more obvious kind of music to benefit from a decent (and better) audio system being fed the full information a CD can provide.

Thank you for the info. I take it that CD format is a necessary condition, but not necessary and sufficient condition, for authentic audio representation.

[Mandryka]

Thank you for the info. I take it that CD format is a necessary condition, but not necessary and sufficient condition, for authentic audio representation.

No, the CD format is neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition for authentic .....

[SurprisedByBeauty]

Thank you for the info. I take it that CD format is a necessary condition, but not necessary and sufficient condition, for authentic audio representation.

A CD is better than mp3. But As long as the resolution is the same as a CD (i.e. a non-compressed file, assuming its source isn't worse than a CD-quality file), the result is at least the same.
Some say that the same file played from a CD and a hard-drive (assuming the same Digital-to-Analog converter handles the files) will sound better form a hard drive. (Fewer moving parts, apparently.)
Streaming can be done at higher-than CD quality which, if the bandwidth is good enough and there's no issues with gapless play, then that's better than CD, too.

But it is true, the CD has set the standard with 44.1kHz/16 bit... and below that you can soon hear the drop-off in quality whereas above it the increase in quality is homeopathic and in any case easily overshadowed by better quality reproduction-gear.

This is instructive to a degree, covering one aspect of audio quality (the 16-bit bit):

http://www.tested.com/tech/1905-the-real-differences-between-16-bit-and-24-bit-audio/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nODn5HJGtAY
And you can easily open a can of worms. https://youtu.be/nLEhfieoMq8

But I feel that there's got to be a dedicated thread about this topic here on on the GMGCMF, where we might take the conversation, if you are inclined to continue it. There will be many more (diverse and disagreeing and informed) voices to chime in.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

A CD is better than mp3. But As long as the resolution is the same as a CD (i.e. a non-compressed file, assuming its source isn't worse than a CD-quality file), the result is at least the same.
Some say that the same file played from a CD and a hard-drive (assuming the same Digital-to-Analog converter handles the files) will sound better form a hard drive. (Fewer moving parts, apparently.)
Streaming can be done at higher-than CD quality which, if the bandwidth is good enough and there's no issues with gapless play, then that's better than SACD, too.

But it is true, the CD has set the standard with 44.1kHz/16 bit... and below that you can soon hear the drop-off in quality.

This is instructive to a degree, covering one aspect of audio quality (the 16-bit bit):

http://www.tested.com/tech/1905-the-real-differences-between-16-bit-and-24-bit-audio/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nODn5HJGtAY
And you can easily open a can of worms. https://youtu.be/nLEhfieoMq8

But I feel that there's got to be a dedicated thread about this topic here on on the GMGCMF, where we might take the conversation, if you are inclined to continue it. There will be many more (diverse and disagreeing and informed) voices to chime in.

Thank you for the elaboration. Very informative. I think I need to be careful about the frequency range the bluetooth can carry as well.

[SurprisedByBeauty]

Thank you for the elaboration. Very informative. I think I need to be careful about the frequency range the bluetooth can carry as well.

Beware that blue-tooth transmission, regardless of the source, always involves compression. There's a higher-quality blue-tooth format/decoding ("aptX"?), but it's not industry standard.

Here's the most active hi-fi thread where such questions will be well asked and even better answered: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1069.1360.html

And now back to Bach on the organ! 


#morninglistening to #Bach #organMusic on @ChandosRecords w/#PietKee which would be lovely... http://ift.tt/2eTr845

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

Beware that blue-tooth transmission, regardless of the source, always involves compression. There's a higher-quality blue-tooth format/decoding ("aptX"?), but it's not industry standard.

Here's the most active hi-fi thread where such questions will be well asked and even better answered: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1069.1360.html

And now back to Bach on the organ! 


#morninglistening to #Bach #organMusic on @ChandosRecords w/#PietKee which would be lovely... http://ift.tt/2eTr845

I love the disk. Great performance, great instument and good recording sound.

[Mandryka]

I always enjoyed Walcha's jubilant interpretations, the Alkmaar version the most.

Yes, i agree totally, the Alkmaar performance is a little miracle.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

New one.

[asin]B01N4225YS[/asin]

Love it. Subtle and elegant (though I am not crazy about a few pieces).

[Mandryka]

Opinions requested on this unusual recording of the sonatas by Rainer Goede.

[prémont]

Opinions requested on this unusual recording of the sonatas by Rainer Goede.

I have not been aware, that Goede had recorded the trio-sonatas, but I know his Art of Fugue and CU3.
The ttrio-sonatas are recorded on a very interesting organ, which has not been used often for recordings of Bach, Some may find its sound to much post-baroque. Nonetheless this is a recording I want to hear, so I shall order it soon.

[Mandryka]

I have not been aware, that Goede had recorded the trio-sonatas, but I know his Art of Fugue and CU3.
The ttrio-sonatas are recorded on a very interesting organ, which has not been used often for recordings of Bach, Some may find its sound to much post-baroque. Nonetheless this is a recording I want to hear, so I shall order it soon.

Can you find a link to buy the Art of Fugue for me, I want to hear it?

[SurprisedByBeauty]

Can you find a link to buy the Art of Fugue for me, I want to hear it?

Have not seen it outside the label's website, for what it's worth: http://www.mitraclassics.de/pages/mitra-shop/johann-sebastian-bach-kunst-der-fuge-122.php

[Mandryka]

Have not seen it outside the label's website, for what it's worth: http://www.mitraclassics.de/pages/mitra-shop/johann-sebastian-bach-kunst-der-fuge-122.php

Thanks for the link. I got to find out about Rainer Goede's Trio Sonatas through Johan van Veen's critical review. At first I thought he was right to be negative but I've found what Goede does repays repeated listening. In particular, I like the way he doesn't try to dazzle the listener with fast tempos or symphonic colours. And I like the clarity of voices, including the music in the pedals, which is not too overwhelmed by the other parts.

http://www.musica-dei-donum.org/