J.S. Bach on the Organ

[prémont]

Reminds me of a nuroscience book I read explaining about why we like and continue to like the music we listened when we were 15-20 years old. Duran x2, Zeppelin, Beatles, Elvis depending upon your generation. The first music experience remains as a musical paradigm to assess the following music throughout your life, theorists say. Do we tend to favor the first rendition, or first interpretation, of Bach we have listened?

It may hold true for some, but not for me. While I still like the first interpretations I heard (Walcha's Bach, Klemperer's Beethoven e.g.), I have since then heard very many interpretations, which I today rate higher than these.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Well, this is annoying, when you find the Foccroulle set on Amazon.com, the link that would normally point to marketplace sellers with new and used copies links to a weird paperback score listed for more than $700. 

Look here:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B002JIBCRQ/ref=sr_1_1_olp?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1521312584&sr=1-1&keywords=bach+foccroulle

[prémont]

Look here:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B002JIBCRQ/ref=sr_1_1_olp?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1521312584&sr=1-1&keywords=bach+foccroulle

Yes, it's about avoiding to click on "paperback".

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dpopular&field-keywords=foccroulle+bach

[Wakefield]

Well, carefully executed stylistic copies of baroque organs can be almost as good as original and reconstructed baroque organs, but the generic and uncharacteristic neo-baroque organ represented by certain Metzler organs and Marcussen organs e.g. does not always IMO do full justice to Bach's music, and in addition - as you probably know - I am not much of a fan of equal tuning for music written before ca. 1800. So to me it is not that simple, because many different considerations count.

I don't have anything to object in your message. But, of course, I'm talking from my own experience, and at least three of my very favorite complete sets were recorded on this kind of instrument: Alain's second complete set (Meztlers and Marcussens), Herrick (swiss Metzlers), and Stockmeier (Kreienbrinks). I don't have any problem with Knud Vad's instrument either (Marcussen again).   

[Gorio1968]

Thank you all for your suggestions, I greatly appreciate your assistance. However, at church this morning - discussing this with a friend - he mentioned he had 16 Koopman CDs he never listened to, they now have a new home. I have really enjoyed listening online to some of your suggestions, you have enriched my musical life.

[prémont]

I don't have anything to object in your message. But, of course, I'm talking from my own experience, and at least three of my very favorite complete sets were recorded on this kind of instrument: Alain's second complete set (Meztlers and Marcussens), Herrick (swiss Metzlers), and Stockmeier (Kreienbrinks). I don't have any problem with Knud Vad's instrument either (Marcussen again). 

But then we are mostly in agreement anyway, because I would not characterize Vad's Sorø organ, Stockmeier's Kreienbrinks or Alain's Marcussens and Metzler (or the Schwenkedel - for that matter) as being generic. On the contrary they are rather individual instruments, i.e. some of Marcussen's and Metzler's better works. I am more in doubt as to some of the Metzler instruments Herrick uses e.g. Stadkirche, Zofingen, and the organ Rübsam uses for his first integral (Metzler organ, Frauenfeld, DE). Also Bovyer's Marcussen organ, Sct.Hans, Odense, DK and Lagacé's Beckerath organ, Montreal, CA spring to my mind as being particularly generic and for that reason a little off-putting. But we have to accept the situation, if we want to listen to these artists. Like saying it would be nice, if Brendel's three Beethoven integrals had been played on fortepiano, but we must accept the modern grand, if we want to listen to him..

[Harry]

So....after all the hubbub about organs and interpretations I would like to know if anyone of the GMG members knows of a place where I can find Christopher Herricks complete Bach survey for a reasonable price.
I really like what he does with Bach...

[Que]

Thank you all for your suggestions, I greatly appreciate your assistance. However, at church this morning - discussing this with a friend - he mentioned he had 16 Koopman CDs he never listened to, they now have a new home. I have really enjoyed listening online to some of your suggestions, you have enriched my musical life.

It seens to be an acquired taste, but I love the Koopman set! 

Q

[Harry]

It seens to be an acquired taste, but I love the Koopman set! 

Q

I know the set, and did not like it, I heard him perform live on the new Arp Schnitger organ in Groningen and I did not like it, but I loved the organ.  So acquired, yes

[Marc]

So....after all the hubbub about organs and interpretations I would like to know if anyone of the GMG members knows of a place where I can find Christopher Herricks complete Bach survey for a reasonable price.
I really like what he does with Bach...

During the period 2010-2015 I bought most of the volumes at PrestoClassical, for around € 12-15 per volume, but it looks like those single discs and twofers are slowly getting OOP, too.
I'm sorry I cannot be of any further help.

[Marc]

[...] Ruebsam II is the slowest of the bunch - muted, but beautifully articulated. Perfect for having your hair cut to. [...] I would probably never have picked that piece on my own, to compare these... so it was particularly rewarding to compare in a work I'm not very familiar with.
[...]

Koopman did 2 beautiful slow renderings of BWV 656, the first for Novalis (reissued by Brilliant) in Ottobeuren, the 2nd one in Leeuwarden (Teldec).

Here's a link to the latter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1R4CQxyAtc

[prémont]

So....after all the hubbub about organs and interpretations I would like to know if anyone of the GMG members knows of a place where I can find Christopher Herricks complete Bach survey for a reasonable price.
I really like what he does with Bach...

A l iot of of the individual volumes can be had here, but the "complete edition" is rather expensive:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1/260-8132655-3894966?url=search-alias%3Dpopular&field-keywords=bach+herrick

[Harry]

A l iot of of the individual volumes can be had here, but the "complete edition" is rather expensive:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1/260-8132655-3894966?url=search-alias%3Dpopular&field-keywords=bach+herrick

Well I opted for a complete set, but I have already some individual CD'S, so I think I will take this route and patch them to a complete set.
Thank you my friend for aiding me in this.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

 How about the organ(s) played by Alessio Corti? Thanks.

But then we are mostly in agreement anyway, because I would not characterize Vad's Sorø organ, Stockmeier's Kreienbrinks or Alain's Marcussens and Metzler (or the Schwenkedel - for that matter) as being generic. On the contrary they are rather individual instruments, i.e. some of Marcussen's and Metzler's better works. I am more in doubt as to some of the Metzler instruments Herrick uses e.g. Stadkirche, Zofingen, and the organ Rübsam uses for his first integral (Metzler organ, Frauenfeld, DE). Also Bovyer's Marcussen organ, Sct.Hans, Odense, DK and Lagacé's Beckerath organ, Montreal, CA spring to my mind as being particularly generic and for that reason a little off-putting. But we have to accept the situation, if we want to listen to these artists. Like saying it would be nice, if Brendel's three Beethoven integrals had been played on fortepiano, but we must accept the modern grand, if we want to listen to him..

[prémont]

How about the organ(s) played by Alessio Corti? Thanks.

To quote myself (post 2190 in this thread November 26, 2015):

From a musical point of view I find Corti outstanding. One may consider him an ideal syntesis of his teacher Lionel Rogg´s fluent naturalness and the learned expressivity of someone like Bernard Foccroulle. The weak point in Corti´s set is the two (modern)Tamburini organs he uses. Their sound do not make me associate to the sound-world of Bach organs. On the other hand I can not say, that they are  completely unsuited for the job, since they have some nice characteristics, among these a fine tonal balance. Much like playing his harpsichord works on a revival harpsichord (e.g. Neupert Bach-model).

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

Great. Thanks a lot. I will research on Tamburini organ.

To quote myself (post 2190 in this thread November 26, 2015):

From a musical point of view I find Corti outstanding. One may consider him an ideal syntesis of his teacher Lionel Rogg´s fluent naturalness and the learned expressivity of someone like Bernard Foccroulle. The weak point in Corti´s set is the two (modern)Tamburini organs he uses. Their sound do not make me associate to the sound-world of Bach organs. On the other hand I can not say, that they are  completely unsuited for the job, since they have some nice characteristics, among these a fine tonal balance. Much like playing his harpsichord works on a revival harpsichord (e.g. Neupert Bach-model).

[Marc]

To quote myself (post 2190 in this thread November 26, 2015):

From a musical point of view I find Corti outstanding. One may consider him an ideal syntesis of his teacher Lionel Rogg´s fluent naturalness and the learned expressivity of someone like Bernard Foccroulle. The weak point in Corti´s set is the two (modern)Tamburini organs he uses. Their sound do not make me associate to the sound-world of Bach organs. On the other hand I can not say, that they are  completely unsuited for the job, since they have some nice characteristics, among these a fine tonal balance. Much like playing his harpsichord works on a revival harpsichord (e.g. Neupert Bach-model).

If Corti had picked a few beautiful baroque organs, then his boxset would probably belong to my 'top 3 integrals', together with Ewald Kooiman (Coronata) and Bram Beekman (Lindenberg), both OOP since long.
As mentioned earlier, the still available (yet expensive) Kooiman & pupils (Aeolus) integral is a very strong contender, too. The playing is good to very good, and the sound quality of that particular set is truly amazing. Top notch.

[prémont]

If Corti had picked a few beautiful baroque organs, then his boxset would probably belong to my 'top 3 integrals', together with Ewald Kooiman (Coronata) and Bram Beekman (Lindenberg), both OOP since long.
As mentioned earlier, the still available (yet expensive) Kooiman & pupils (Aeolus) integral is a very strong contender, too. The playing is good to very good, and the sound quality of that particular set is truly amazing. Top notch.

Completely agreed.

[Mandryka]

Markuu Heikinheimo, Verschueren Helsinki. This is a characterful neo baroque organ. Heikinheimo plays with sobrieity discretion and lyricism, his registrations often feel like chamber music.

[Wakefield]

On a day like this (arguable, but...), 333 years ago, Johann Sebastian Bach was born in Eisenach:

https://youtu.be/X9Dh43kVL1Q

Thanks forever, revered Kapellmeister.