J.S. Bach on the Organ

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

Weinberger's OOP complete set is sold for around $80 on Amazon, and it is tempting.
If, and only if, the set won't be reissued soon, I would like to buy the oop set.
Any thoughts? Any substantial possibility for a reissue of the Weinberger set?

[prémont]

Weinberger's OOP complete set is sold for around $80 on Amazon, and it is tempting.
If, and only if, the set won't be reissued soon, I would like to buy the oop set.
Any thoughts? Any substantial possibility for a reissue of the Weinberger set?

The original label stil lists it a little cheaper (however posting costs may differ):

https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/Johann-Sebastian-Bach-1685-1750-S%E4mtliche-Orgelwerke/hnum/7006321

[Mandryka]

The texts that Weinberger wrote for the series are good and scholarly.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

The original label stil lists it a little cheaper (however posting costs may differ):

https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/Johann-Sebastian-Bach-1685-1750-S%E4mtliche-Orgelwerke/hnum/7006321

Thanks a lot!

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

The texts that Weinberger wrote for the series are good and scholarly.

What is your/members' opinion about the recording and his performance ?

[Mandryka]

What is your/members' opinion about the recording and his performance ?

I think that for Art of Fugue, CU 3, the Leipzig Chorales, Orgelbuchlein and the early chorales they are exceptional; for the trio sonatas less so. About the rest I cannot say.

[Marc]

FEC, I thought you already had the Weinberger?

Anyway, I must have mentioned this before in this short thread, but I think Weinberger is a very reliable no nonsense Bach organist, with a fine ear for clarity in contrapunt. He's not the most poetic interpreter though.
He plays both 'big' organs in spatial acoustics and smaller ones in village churches, with a drier acoustics as result.

And he plays a lot of dubious and spurious works, which is an interesting bonus.

[prémont]

The texts that Weinberger wrote for the series are good and scholarly.

Yes,very good, but they are only included in the original individual releases, and not in the complete box (I own both).

[prémont]

What is your/members' opinion about the recording and his performance ?

A mixed bag, but worth the money. Particularly interesting (for me at least) are the many important historical organs he uses.

[Marc]

Yes,very good, but they are only included in the original individual releases, and not in the complete box (I own both).

IMHO, in such cases, the label (CPO or via jpc.de) should offer them online as pdf-files.
It's the same with the very extensive and informative liner notes of the orgininal vinyl issues of the Leonhardt/Harnoncourt cantatas series.
Since the reissues on compact discs, they aren't available anymore, neither on single issues nor in boxsets (to my knowledge, that is).

[SurprisedByBeauty]

What is your/members' opinion about the recording and his performance ?

I started out quite cold on this... but have warmed up to it immensely. (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2008/12/best-recordings-of-2008.html)

Not just because it is the most complete set of Bach's organ works yet, but because the playing really isn't as stodgy as I first thought. It's just not flashy. But it can be lively, it always has rhythmic rigor (sometimes perhaps a bit much)... it reminds me of Stockmeier on occasion... and he uses wonderful organs. And the booklet, even in the box, is still VERY extensive, with hundreds of pages. They apparently trimmed the original texts (I don't have any original copies on hand to compare, but permont says so) but they still left much. It's the still the most extensive booklet of any such box I have.
Listening my way through Chapuis right now, that's only a set to make me appreciate Weinberger yet more. How can he open the 8th CD with the BWV 552 Prelude and then not edit out a total slip in the second bar. Little things like that wouldn't happen on the Weinberger set.

http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/09/a-survey-of-bach-organ-cycles.html

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

Thanks Gents. I always listened to his renditions on Youtube, and I liked them. I will purchase the set at the label's web site.

[Mandryka]

I want to ask a favour from the people with Weinberger's set.

Go play BWV 659, a Leipzig Chorale, track 2 CD 10. At Waltershausen. Not surprisingly there are some very deep notes.

Can you hear them in a realistic way on your hifi? What speakers are you using?

I'm not sure if what I'm hearing is the best it can sound - a sort of growl - I have Quad ESL 63 with Gradient subwoofers. .

[Harry]

I want to ask a favour from the people with Weinberger's set.

Go play BWV 659, a Leipzig Chorale, track 2 CD 10. At Waltershausen. Not surprisingly there are some very deep notes.

Can you hear them in a realistic way on your hifi? What speakers are you using?

I'm not sure if what I'm hearing is the best it can sound - a sort of growl - I have Quad ESL 63 with Gradient subwoofers. .

Yes I hear the low notes , no growl, and I am using Avalon ceramique

[Mandryka]

Yes I hear the low notes , no growl, and I am using Avalon ceramique

Cheers, when I'm ready to change speakers I'll check Avalons.

[SurprisedByBeauty]

I want to ask a favour from the people with Weinberger's set.

Go play BWV 659, a Leipzig Chorale, track 2 CD 10. At Waltershausen. Not surprisingly there are some very deep notes.

Can you hear them in a realistic way on your hifi? What speakers are you using?

I'm not sure if what I'm hearing is the best it can sound - a sort of growl - I have Quad ESL 63 with Gradient subwoofers. .

The 'walking bass' (as it were)? (Track 3, I think, in any case.) Yes, I can hearmagine it rather clearly and well defined. My speakers don't go as low as those notes probably do (Thiel Audio SCS4T), but a low note can be made to appear very low to the ear. BWV 661 has some pretty low ones, too. Those rumble very neatly and lowly, too. Doesn't have the stomach-punching quality of a real low bass from a woofer, of course.

(I hope one can still get a Thiel Woofer, now that they are out of business. Always wanted one... but they are pricey. Especially in Europe.)

[Mandryka]

The 'walking bass' (as it were)? (Track 3, I think, in any case.) Yes, I can hearmagine it rather clearly and well defined. My speakers don't go as low as those notes probably do (Thiel Audio SCS4T), but a low note can be made to appear very low to the ear. BWV 661 has some pretty low ones, too. Those rumble very neatly and lowly, too. Doesn't have the stomach-punching quality of a real low bass from a woofer, of course.

(I hope one can still get a Thiel Woofer, now that they are out of business. Always wanted one... but they are pricey. Especially in Europe.)

Thanks. Yes, track 3 -- I noticed that mistake.

I must say, I think you need good bass if you listen to organ music and maybe for you a pair of subwoofers is the way to go, if you can get them integrated correctly. There are enough cases where the organist plays deeply on organs with big pipes,  and there you need powerful bass. If I don't use the Gradients with my ESLs it sounds fine, but in fact it sounds fine because the low bass response is so quiet. With the subs you realise that in fact you were just not hearing a part of the music. Of course the recording has to be good in the very low range too . . .

One consequence of good bass response is that you hear more of the action, more of the sound of feet on pedals, more chuff from the pipes . . .

[Harry]

Thanks. Yes, track 3 -- I noticed that mistake.

I must say, I think you need good bass if you listen to organ music and maybe for you a pair of subwoofers is the way to go, if you can get them integrated correctly. There are enough cases where the organist plays deeply on organs with big pipes,  and there you need powerful bass. If I don't use the Gradients with my ESLs it sounds fine, but in fact it sounds fine because the low bass response is so quiet. With the subs you realise that in fact you were just not hearing a part of the music. Of course the recording has to be good in the very low range too . . .

One consequence of good bass response is that you hear more of the action, more of the sound of feet on pedals, more chuff from the pipes . . .

You simply need good equipment, and good speakers, if so, you don't need a Subwoofer, certainly not with Quad ESL. I had them aeons ago matched with the 33-303 Quad amplification, and there was more than enough bass, and yes also with the 32 feet pipes.
If you hear a growl, you better look at your amplification, and above all the CD player! Cabling is also an issue.

[Mandryka]

You simply need good equipment, and good speakers, if so, you don't need a Subwoofer, certainly not with Quad ESL. I had them aeons ago matched with the 33-303 Quad amplification, and there was more than enough bass, and yes also with the 32 feet pipes.
If you hear a growl, you better look at your amplification, and above all the CD player! Cabling is also an issue.

The DAC is very good so I don't think it's that (I don't play CDs) I have 33-303 in my spare system, at the moment I'm using 520f-44 in the main system. 520f is the studio version of the 606. The Cables? You mean speaker cables, interconnects, mains cables or what?

The reason I don't use the 303 with the ESLs is that they may need more power to drive them/ ESL 63s don't forget, not ESL 57s -- the 63s are a difficult speaker to drive.  But I'll swap them over and see the results.  I can assure you that the gradients, which were made for the ESL 63s, do greatly improve the bass, and the image. You're welcome to come and listen next time you're in London.

By the way, I want a valve amp -- but it would need to be more than 35W p c .

[Harry]

The DAC is very good so I don't think it's that (I don't play CDs) I have 33-303 in my spare system, at the moment I'm using 520f-44. 520f is the studio version of the 606. The Cables? You mean speaker, connects, mains cables or what?

The reason I don't use the 303 with the ESLs is that they may need more power to drive them/ ESL 63s don't forget, not ESL 57s -- the 63s are a difficult speaker to drive.  But I'll swap them over and see the results.  I can assure you that the gradients, which were made for the ESL 63s, do greatly improve the bass, and the image.

By the way, I want a valve amp

I thought you would know when  I talk about cabling I meant interlinks and  loudspeaker cables.
Valve amps give a warmer sound but are less precise. But I like valve amps.