J.S. Bach on the Organ

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

In my opinion Piet Kee was very variable in recordings. Sometimes he was rather pedestrian, and if my memory serves me well (it may be about 5 years since I last listened to this one), this is one of his more earthbound recordings. The organ is of course a big monster, but others have shown, that it is perfectly possible to make it "take off".

Thank you for the review. It is a good guidance. Not all reviews have to be positive. I welcome skeptical/negative reviews as well. It seems that your favorite is Alain.

[dissily Mordentroge]

Thank you for the review. It is a good guidance. Not all reviews have to be positive. I welcome skeptical/negative reviews as well. It seems that your favourite is Alain.

If you mean Marie Claire Alain she's at the top of my list but sadly many of her recordings aren't up to scratch sonically.
Of late I've become besotted with Matthias HavingA (had to capitalise the A as spellcheck insisted on removing it. )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuoxijdFKA0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pxQZVBlnbA ( sound on this clip is sadly ahead of  vision)

By the way, here's a clip of Marie-Claire Alain feeling her way around an unfamiliar instrument for the first time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiLHVIEMm0Y

[Harry]

My opinion is that Masaaki Suzuki doesn't understand Bach as I would expect. I attended a live concert with him in the Martini kerk in Groningen, and was immensely disappointed. Registrations indeed all over the place, playing as loud as he could, improvised in an inappropriate way, no rest for the wicked actually. No, Bach isn't his forte and he should stay away from the organ works. He reminded me of Molardi who also foolishly recorded the complete works, much to my chagrin. I threw the discs away, so bad I found them. Bach is not an easy dinner as many organists think it is.

[prémont]

My opinion is that Masaaki Suzuki doesn't understand Bach as I would expect.

Neither as I would expect, at least concerning his Bach organ recordings. Surprising, because many of his Bach harpsichord recordings are top-notch.

I have also deselected his Bach organ recordings so far. His Sweelinck resording is too "cool" to me, but he has made two eatable Buxtehude recordings.

[Harry]

Neither as I would expect, at least concerning his Bach organ recordings. Surprising, because many of his Bach harpsichord recordings are top-notch.

I have also deselected his Bach organ recordings so far. His Sweelinck recording is too "cool" to me, but he has made two eatable Buxtehude recordings.

I quite enjoyed the Sweelinck disc, but you are right in saying its rather cool.

[Mandryka]

Have people been listening to Masaaki Suzuki's ongoing project? He's on the Silbermann at Freiberg? That means Bach played it? What do people think of Suzuki and these recordings? These recordings are being presented in "HD" on Amazon's new streaming option. I'm not a technical person but sound should be a selling point. Perhaps. How is his style different from someone like Klapprott or the musicians who show up on the Berlin Classics series.

I just listened to the chorales and partita on the Freiburg recording.




The image of the Cd is of two mollusc shells, and that rather well represents the style - beautiful, very clear structure, quite colourful and hard as nails.

The partita makes me wish he'd record some Bohm.

He certainly likes to play loud! But not always.

It's a recording with tons of personality.

[Mandryka]

, improvised in an inappropriate way,

That's interesting Harry. Let me ask a question to the assembled organologues and bachophiles.. Is there a good way to improvise when playing a Bach score?

[dissily Mordentroge]

That's interesting Harry. Let me ask a question to the assembled organologues and bachophiles.. Is there a good way to improvise when playing a Bach score?

Only for vocalists.

[Mandryka]

This is what Stef Tuinstra says in his essay on Georg Bohm

In the present recording I have attempted to apply a facet of Baroque performance practice that is still not widely cultivated, namely the addition of improvised elements to existing compositions. These include the use of basso continuo and other added notes to fill in chords, in keeping with the style of Bach's cantatas. From the days of Michael Praetorius (1571-1621 Syntagma Musicum) an ideal of organ playing was to imitate a complete orchestra and choir. Johann Matheson (1681 1764) lamented the fact that, in his time, this ideal had not been widely pursued, apparently because it made such high demands on the player.

[dissily Mordentroge]

If I can take things sideways for a moment.
I'd like to start a new thread (not necessarily in this section) on young and/or upcoming organists worth keeping an eye on ( ear on, to be pedantic).
Anyhow, here's an example who isn't all that bad to look at either. I have none of her recordings yet. However in all the Youtube clips I've listened to I can't fault her technique or expression.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnQ6are1Ju0

[dissily Mordentroge]

Sister X isn't half bad in a very soothing way with J S B...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asMxbQ9Mb0Q

...then she goes and scares the living daylights out of you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho7MKEBxFe4

[bioluminescentsquid]

That's interesting Harry. Let me ask a question to the assembled organologues and bachophiles.. Is there a good way to improvise when playing a Bach score?

I know someone who vastly prefers playing e.g. Froberger or Frescobaldi to Bach, just because he thinks that Bach can be very prescriptive at times.

Some people improvise introductions e.g. to BWV 542 (or even use his Pedal-exercitium as an introduction), on harpsichord I've heard Jean Rondeau improvise a prelude to, if I remember correctly, one of Bach's lute suites (?). But the prelude was in the style of a Louis Couperin unmeasured prelude, and it worked better in French works than with Bach.

[milk]

My opinion is that Masaaki Suzuki doesn't understand Bach as I would expect. I attended a live concert with him in the Martini kerk in Groningen, and was immensely disappointed. Registrations indeed all over the place, playing as loud as he could, improvised in an inappropriate way, no rest for the wicked actually. No, Bach isn't his forte and he should stay away from the organ works. He reminded me of Molardi who also foolishly recorded the complete works, much to my chagrin. I threw the discs away, so bad I found them. Bach is not an easy dinner as many organists think it is.

thanks. I just have no idea what's in keeping with the conception of the music. I just find them too grand (same for his cantatas). I'm not musically knowledgeable but I most enjoy the Berlin Silbermann series. The registrations are so imaginative and the sounds rough and interesting. Someone said they were unrestored organs. I also like Isoir but I wonder if some here find him too smooth.
I do think Suzuki is a genius but maybe not here.

[bioluminescentsquid]

His approach is far too idiosyncratic and at times amateurish for me to want to explore his complete organ recordings.
His registration is often downright wrong, his rhythm and timing are all over the place with inexplicable breaks as if he's lost his place reading the sheet music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLEag-NJUWA

It's not the best performance, and certainly not on a very distinguished organ (at least how S. handles it) but I think the registration - what sounds like a Frenchy Grand Jeu - isn't too bad or "wrong". Lots of actual French "Grand Jeu" movements with fugal sections like this. And almost as a general rule, French "Fugue Graves" were played on reeds. I guess S. wanted to bring out the "french" character, I think it's a bit harsh to judge him based on a live performance too.

I just listened to his "Wedge" BWV 548 at Martinikerk, I would describe it as subtly flamboyant, tons of spice but still very earthbound. Lots of well-placed little agogics that might be what put off dissily, but I think they're beautiful and suitably placed. (there's always a fine line between well-placed agogics and sounding like a sightreading beginner)
Not Bach I'd reach for everyday, but certainly not that bad

Also, he elected to have gentler registrations in some works like BWV 537, and does the "Build-up" approach rather than the Plenum approach in Bach's Passacaglia, a bit of rarity for organists so involved in the HIP world like him. So I don't think he likes it loud and boisterous as much as we think he does.

Anyways,
A wonderful BWV 552, played by Bram Brandemann on an absolutely warm and seductive organ in Buitenkerk Kampen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGrsXkNFx7c
I've been really liking this series of recordings by Brandemann.

[dissily Mordentroge]

It's not the best performance, and certainly not on a very distinguished organ (at least how S. handles it) but I think the registration - what sounds like a Frenchy Grand Jeu - isn't too bad or "wrong".
A wonderful BWV 552, played by Bram Brandemann on an absolutely warm and seductive organ in Buitenkerk Kampen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGrsXkNFx7c
I've been really liking this series of recordings by Brandemann.

Now here's a conundrum. The difference between 'wrong' and 'preferred'. Until and unless we can reincarnate JSB I doubt well ever have a definitive reference for correct or incorrect (according to JSB himself) Instance the Brandemann  BWV 552. I hear a wonderful instrument, sensitively recorded and played with excellent technique yet for me the performance lacks any rhythmic lilt. That's only a preference as I have no way of knowing if such is 'correct' but to me without that almost skipping rhythm BWV 552 falls flat. In other words I prefer the prelude, for instance, to almost dance along. But here's another thing, Bach's organ works can be performed in a number of ways and still be spellbinding. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDVfbFjOFDQ

[milk]

I know this has all been discussed in this thread many times, but Foccroulle certainly has made an attempt to bop around to different interesting organs and I think I like the registrations he chooses are effective. The topic of organ music seems too complicated for me to understand well but I think he's another one that I've enjoyed. I'm sort of mentioning the stuff attuned to historical organs.

[Mandryka]

thanks. I just have no idea what's in keeping with the conception of the music. 

Have you heard his old recording of CU3?

[milk]

Have you heard his old recording of CU3?

Hmm...I might have this...perhaps this is the one that got a good bit of praise - maybe D. Satz recommended this one? I'll have to revisit it/take a look.
I forgot about that. I have to admit I skip around a lot in Bach's organ music. It's been a few years since I concentrated on CU3 despite it's having some pretty famous pieces.

[Marc]

Hmm...I might have this...perhaps this is the one that got a good bit of praise - maybe D. Satz recommended this one? I'll have to revisit it/take a look.
I forgot about that. I have to admit I skip around a lot in Bach's organ music. It's been a few years since I concentrated on CU3 despite it's having some pretty famous pieces.

Yeah, Don liked it a lot, iirc.
I wasn't all that impressed though. Too superficial; Suzuki's approach didn't really touch me.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

Pieter Van Dijk has so far released 5 discs of Bach Organ works. Has anybody listened?

https://www.dmp-records.nl/nu-verkrijgbaar-album-5-van-bach-complete-organ-works-available-now-album-5-of-bach-complete-organ-works/