J.S. Bach on the Organ

[Marc]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tXrt-N_4vY

EPB at the 1721 Schnitger & sons organ at Zwolle, at that time freshly reconstructed by Flentrop - again, I like his recordings on old organs more than the ones on his "home" organ, the Flentrop at Harvard. Fleet footed and energetic Dorian P&F! It's funny that now, Flentrop is once again taking this organ apart to restore it according to everything new we have learned about Schnitger organ in these 70 years.

It's not my preferred way of playing BWV 538, but I admit I'm just not a sucker for the slowly crescendo built-up of the fugue.
This man was much better though than (indeed f.i.) Virgil Fox or Michael Murray, IMHO.

[bioluminescentsquid]

Listening to some Orgelbuchlein on this one, I'm very impressed by the Nijkerk organ, with its lovely bass notes. There are a few other things on record but not many and hard to find as far as I can see, and maybe a few thing on youtube which I'll listen to later.

Just listened to this, I think the playing needs some time to sink in because it doesn't do much to me yet. The organ is indeed very nice, very "French" (as late Dutch Baroque can tend to be) with quite a nasal sound. Reminds me of the Heyemann organ in s'Hertogenbosch where Ton Koopman recorded a speedy and reedy BWV 547 in his Novalis Bach set.

Lots of stuff on YouTube, Nijkerk has a well maintained channel where they post recordings on the organ.

[Mandryka]

Just listened to this, I think the playing needs some time to sink in because it doesn't do much to me yet.

No, they're played a bit too straight, a bit too much like he's lost touch with the soul of the music. I switched to Wiersma in the same sequence, though I prefer Kooiman's organ and the sound Coronata gave him. I always think the best Orgelbuchleins turn each set in the book into a little cycle, Kooimam doesn't quite do that.

[bioluminescentsquid]

I'm posting too soon, cause I've just started listening to BWV 525/1. But what can I say? Just lovely lovely lovely.

EDIT: whilst listening to BWV 525/2 ... even more lovely lovely lovely. Yes, I think I'd go for the Waltershausen Trost instead of Altenburg... personal preferences, what to do about them?

How do you think of John Butt's Trio sonatas recording? I think Butt and Reichert are conceptually very similar, Butt is even a bit more lively and irreverent. It's music ideally suited for dry acoustics and intimate organs.

[staxomega]

No not really, I see the set as a whole, in which Weinberger's approach is very stabil. So for me there is not a definable favorite, but if forced I would say the
Orgelbüchlein BWV 599-644; Partiten BWV 768 & 770; Schübler-Choräle BWV 646-650; Choräle BWV 651-663, 665-767, 769, 1085, 1090-1120, BWV Anh. II 58, Anh. II 67, Anh. II 59, Anh. II 55, Anh. II 69; Choralbearbeitung "An Wasserflüssen Babylon" BWV 653b; Choräle aus der Berliner Sammelhandschrift Mus. ms. Bach P 285 BWV Anh. II, 50, Anh. II 52, Anh. II 49, Anh. II 64, Anh. II 63, Anh. II 62a; Choräle aus der Rudorff-Sammlung Leipzig Ms. R 24 BWV deest; Choräle aus der Sammelhandschrift Yale LM 4843 BWV deest;

Thanks Harry.

I do hope Kooiman's cycle on Coronata gets reissued some day!

Q

I would suggest anyone that is interested to email Brilliant Classics, they are quite receptive to customer feedback. I just sent them an email, I would think licensing from a small defunct label would be reasonable.

[Marc]

How do you think of John Butt's Trio sonatas recording? I think Butt and Reichert are conceptually very similar, Butt is even a bit more lively and irreverent. It's music ideally suited for dry acoustics and intimate organs.

Yes, I recall good listening memories of that one.
Of course, these trio sonatas work very well in a 'chamber' like setting. On the other hand, I don't mind listening to them in a more spatial church either. Like Marie-Claire Alain's recording in the Der Aa Kerk, Groningen (Schnitger/Timpe). Or in a live concert, for that matter. As long as the organ delivers a sound to my liking. In this case, I'm blessed and priviliged with living in 'my' good ole town.

[Marc]

[...]

I would suggest anyone that is interested to email Brilliant Classics, they are quite receptive to customer feedback. I just sent them an email, I would think licensing from a small defunct label would be reasonable.

I think I read somewhere, years ago, that the copyrights of that Coronata set are now owned by Kooiman's heirs. Or maybe the owner of Toccata records, who assisted back then with a few of the recordings, told me so. Which would mean that it's not an 'easy grab'.
But I applaud your initiative!
I tried it with Beekman, but I did not get an answer. Maybe because Brilliant was in a 'transition period' back then... the label was sold to another owner IIRC.

[Mandryka]

It's music ideally suited for dry acoustics and intimate organs.

Well excuse ME. I like them played dark, deep and meaningful on the Hamburg or Groningen Schnitger. None of this Butting about in my house.

[bioluminescentsquid]

Well excuse ME. I like them played dark, deep and meaningful on the Hamburg or Groningen Schnitger. None of this Butting about in my house.

Interesting, the recordings at Hamburg that I know are Nordstoga and Koopman. I like Koopman a bit more - bolder registrations and playing. But in general I do think of these pieces as chamber music, I enjoy the intimacy and being able to hear every irregularity in the pipes' speech that would otherwise get evened out in a more spacious acoustic.

There are some recordings of the Trios on big organs that I do like, though This one, for instance. https://youtu.be/S-elphI8Z2I
Or Walter Kraft.

By Groningen, are you referring to Koito on Harmonic records? I've heard bits of that one and it was good.

I am making my way through Alain III, I will report back when I hit the trio sonatas.

Another one that I like is that of David Yearsley's, played on the organ at Sage Chapel Cornell, a reconstruction mostly based on the destroyed Schnitger organ of Berlin Eosanderkapelle. Schnitger adapted to the prevailing central german style when building that organ, so stops you would never see in North German organs like viola da gambas and tapered wooden flutes made an appearance there.
Some great colors in the organ, combines the dusty sounds of Central Germany with the cheerful brightness of most familiar North German Schnitgers.
It's a good "balanced" recording, between the two extremes (intimacy vs grandeur).
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mfFeB0QwxLHrK6MkudfBx8onci_4zK5Ec

[Mandryka]

Interesting, the recordings at Hamburg that I know are Nordstoga and Koopman. I like Koopman a bit more - bolder registrations and playing. But in general I do think of these pieces as chamber music, I enjoy the intimacy and being able to hear every irregularity in the pipes' speech that would otherwise get evened out in a more spacious acoustic.

There are some recordings of the Trios on big organs that I do like, though This one, for instance. https://youtu.be/S-elphI8Z2I
Or Walter Kraft.

By Groningen, are you referring to Koito on Harmonic records? I've heard bits of that one and it was good.

I am making my way through Alain III, I will report back when I hit the trio sonatas.

Another one that I like is that of David Yearsley's, played on the organ at Sage Chapel Cornell, a reconstruction mostly based on the destroyed Schnitger organ of Berlin Eosanderkapelle. Schnitger adapted to the prevailing central german style when building that organ, so stops you would never see in North German organs like viola da gambas and tapered wooden flutes made an appearance there.
It's a good "balanced" recording, between the two extremes (intimacy vs grandeur).
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mfFeB0QwxLHrK6MkudfBx8onci_4zK5Ec

I wonder if Nordstoga suffers from bad sound. I can't tell whether it's the sound take or just his way of controling (or trying to control) the organ. I just went back to it after that post.

Koito at Groningen, yes, and also, maybe more interesting, Rubsam on Naxos.



I'd like to join you in your exploration of Alain III, I'll listen to the trio sonatas today or tomorrow. 

[prémont]

I wonder if Nordstoga suffers from bad sound. I can't tell whether it's the sound take or just his way of controling (or trying to control) the organ. I just went back to it after that post.

There is an earlier Nordstoga recording. I own it, but haven't listened to it yet.

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8044476--j-s-bach-org-trio-so

BTW I found Reichert's recording particularly refreshing.

[staxomega]

I think I read somewhere, years ago, that the copyrights of that Coronata set are now owned by Kooiman's heirs. Or maybe the owner of Toccata records, who assisted back then with a few of the recordings, told me so. Which would mean that it's not an 'easy grab'.
But I applaud your initiative!
I tried it with Beekman, but I did not get an answer. Maybe because Brilliant was in a 'transition period' back then... the label was sold to another owner IIRC.

Good info, thanks. I've emailed them about a few things in the last couple of years, I usually got very fast responses from their customer service.

[Mandryka]

In the trio sonatas I really want to hear all thee voices clearly, all of them presented with their own character. I don't think Alain III manages this specially well.

I went back to Rübsam in Groningen, which seems to me a magnificent interpretation! And for once that organ gets a decent sound take.

[SurprisedByBeauty]

In the trio sonatas I really want to hear all thee voices clearly, all of them presented with their own character. I don't think Alain III manages this specially well.

I went back to Rübsam in Groningen, which seems to me a magnificent interpretation! And for once that organ gets a decent sound take.

Apropos Trio Sonatas: I still like the old Holm Vogel recordings on a 1950s (?) Leipzig Schuke Organ: http://a-fwd.to/5Ji8C9w

Oh, yes, the ClassicsToday review of the transcription disc, mentioned earlier in this thread, is up:


Latest 10/10 #CDReview for @classicstoday:
Marvelous Bach Transcriptions From Groningen's Martinikerk

https://classicstoday.com/review/marvelous-bach-transcriptions-from-groningens-martinikerk/

w/#ErwinWiersinga &  #LeoVanDoeselaar (@hausemousse) on #mDG

[Marc]

Apropos Trio Sonatas: I still like the old Holm Vogel recordings on a 1950s (?) Leipzig Schuke Organ: http://a-fwd.to/5Ji8C9w

Oh, yes, the ClassicsToday review of the transcription disc, mentioned earlier in this thread, is up:


Latest 10/10 #CDReview for @classicstoday:
Marvelous Bach Transcriptions From Groningen's Martinikerk

https://classicstoday.com/review/marvelous-bach-transcriptions-from-groningens-martinikerk/

w/#ErwinWiersinga &  #LeoVanDoeselaar (@hausemousse) on #mDG

Hi Jens,

Can I mail the link of the review to the sacristan of the Martinikerk?
Maybe he can add it to their Facebook and/or Twitter page.

[SurprisedByBeauty]

Hi Jens,

Can I mail the link of the review to the sacristan of the Martinikerk?
Maybe he can add it to their Facebook and/or Twitter page.

Obviously! All dissemination is most welcome! :-) (I've tried to tag the Martinikerk on all these pages, too... that's part of the point of my posts, to connect those institutions & artists that have social media profiles... so maybe they've seen it.)

[Mandryka]

Apropos Trio Sonatas: I still like the old Holm Vogel recordings on a 1950s (?) Leipzig Schuke Organ: http://a-fwd.to/5Ji8C9w

Yeh, never heard that before and it's really very agreeable in a mainstream sort of way. This sort of performance can get a bit predictable to me - it's like it's  it's just for fun, pleasure, rather than for any challenge, and challenge is really important to me in music, literature, art etc. I like to feel as though some sort exciting experimentation is going on.


I've been listening to Chorzempa too, which is more experimental, and that's good!

[prémont]

Yeh, never heard that before and it's really very agreeable in a mainstream sort of way. This sort of performance can get a bit predictable to me - it's like it's  it's just for fun, pleasure, rather than for any challenge, and challenge is really important to me in music, literature, art etc. I like to feel as though some sort exciting experimentation is going on.

Holm Vogel was a pupil of Walcha, which can be heard to advantage in his part playing. My only problem with his recording of the trio sonatas (and his CÜ III on the same organ) is the organ, which is generic and faceless, a typical East-German factory organ.

[bioluminescentsquid]

Holm Vogel was a pupil of Walcha, which can be heard to advantage in his part playing. My only problem with his recording of the trio sonatas (and his CÜ III on the same organ) is the organ, which is generic and faceless, a typical East-German factory organ.

This is EPB playing Bach's Passacaliaga on the same organ - it's a great, not sterile, performance. EPB in his alpha state. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbujihIjN8I
That being said, I'm very glad they replaced that Schuke with the current Woehl.

Alain III Trio sonatas: just listened to a few. The Aakerk organ sounds as mild and beautiful as usual in the soupy acoustics. There's a sense of relaxed extraversion in the recording that I very much like. Some sonatas are more successful, I like especially sonatas 2, 3, and 5 - sprightly movements especially.

I do agree with Mandryka that voices can be a bit hard to distinguish - Alain seems to think of the sonatas less of trios than a voice accompanied by two others (sort of like Bach's gamba or violin sonatas), since she often registers one voice much stronger than the other two, relegating them to the background. Also, another thing contributing to this is the size of the organ and the space - on a smaller organ, we can usually tell apart two voices by slight differences in timbre even if they are registered similarly. On a big organ, a lot of this contrast has to be done through registration (thus the soloist vs 2 accompanying voices) and spatial difference between the divisions, and this is probably harder to capture on recording.

*My bad, I didn't realize that Holm Vogel was not recorded in the Thomaskirche.

Any thoughts on Hubert Meister? I remember hearing it before and liking it, but I just listened to sound samples online again and was actually quite disappointed.

[Marc]

Obviously! All dissemination is most welcome! :-) (I've tried to tag the Martinikerk on all these pages, too... that's part of the point of my posts, to connect those institutions & artists that have social media profiles... so maybe they've seen it.)

Thanks!