J.S. Bach on the Organ

[Marc]

Well, if you're interested in Bach on (historic) instruments, then I would suggest you'd forget about integral boxsets.
There are so many beautiful recordings on old (restored/rebuilt) organs with organists who never made an integral.

Organs made by the Schnitger family, Joachim Wagner, Zacharias Hildebrand, Friedrich Stellwagen, Albertus Anthony Hinsz, T.H.G. Trost, Christoph Treutmann, Dom Bédos de Celles, Italian organs, Iberian organs, et cetera and et al, they're all very interesting and worthwhile checking out. Some may be better suited for Bach, but the instruments are all unique in their own way.

Considering 'individual' and very good Bach recordings, you might want to check out the first post of this thread (written by Premont):

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,638.msg12494.html#msg12494

And for a cheap (FREE!) download possibility of a more or less complete Bach, played by James Kibbie on some famous German baroque organs, here's an interesting (also earlier mentioned) possibility, with a list of the used organs:

http://www.blockmrecords.org/bach/organs/index.htm

[Marc]

Speaking of Olivier Vernet (somebody is bound to have been speaking of him at some point, in this thread): I'll hear him tonight. Alas, in a French program, not in Bach. Saw him briefly last night, doing the registration work at 11pm, all alone in the large concert hall. Kind of a bummer job, getting only the way-early and way-late time slots in any Konzerthaus to do your prep-work.

Jens, enjoy yourself!
I hope you'll have a good concert.

[Mandryka]

I've heard three things by Golebiowski - Art of Fugue, Brahms op 122 and Mozart KV 608. I thought the Mozart and Bach were pretty glib. I liked the tough unsentimental approach to the Brahms.

[prémont]

I've heard three things by Golebiowski - Art of Fugue, Brahms op 122 and Mozart KV 608. I thought the Mozart and Bach were pretty glib. I liked the tough unsentimental approach to the Brahms.

What does "glib" mean?

[Marc]

What does "glib" mean?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=glib

[prémont]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=glib

Thanks.  It is a question of knowing the right dictionary.

So glib = Showing little thought; marked by a lack of intellectual depth.

This is also my impression from the clips I heard at Amazon´s website.
Even if short clips must be judged with caution, the overall playing style is often evident.

I also think the playing lacked emotional depth.

[kishnevi]

I downloaded the Kibbie cycle, but could never get myself to finish it:  sounded rather plodding and unimaginative to me. 

The only reason I would not suggest the Vernet cycle is because of price: it seems to be worth its weight in gold now that it is OOP.

I rather liked the Hanssler cycle by various organists,  which is now available on its own.   

I have found that cycles organized by sort of chronological order of composition (in as much as that can not really be determined for many of the organ works), with their mix of genres,  appeal to me more than those grouped by genre, with chorales all lumped together,  fugues all lumped together, etc.

[Mandryka]

What do you guys think of this? I like it. The Wedge prelude and fugue by Ole Karsten Sundlisaeter. I was drawn to it when I noticed a positive comment by Ketil Haugsand.

http://www.youtube.com/v/DqUVM4D93FMhttp://www.youtube.com/v/oVFpDJFWgfk

He's put the D minor trio sonata on youtube too.

[prémont]

I downloaded the Kibbie cycle, but could never get myself to finish it:  sounded rather plodding and unimaginative to me. 

Yes,Kibbie is nothing to write home about. And in mp3 sound the historical organs do not sound the way they deserve.

At the moment Vernet costs 70 Euro at JPC for 19 CDs, which is 3,7 Euro pr. CD.
It is unfair to compare this with the prices of Brilliant and Sony bargain boxes, and I dare to say that Vernet offers full value for money.

[kishnevi]

At the moment Vernet costs 70 Euro at JPC for 19 CDs, which is 3,7 Euro pr. CD. It is unfair to compare this with the prices of Brilliant and Sony bargain boxes, and I dare to say that he offers full value for money.

The last time I looked, the cheapest offer for the Vernet set on Amazon US Marketplace was slightly above $200US, which I don't expect anyone to pay.     But if it's available for 70 Euros,  then I'd say everyone who does not have it should jump on it.

[prémont]

What do you guys think of this? I like it. The Wedge prelude and fugue by Ole Karsten Sundlisaeter. I was drawn to it when I noticed a positive comment by Ketil Haugsand.

http://www.youtube.com/v/DqUVM4D93FMhttp://www.youtube.com/v/oVFpDJFWgfk

There is an error at youtube as to the prelude but the fugue comes through.

His style (articulation, tempo, stop changes) reminds me much of how this piece was played by late pre-authenticists like Franz Lehrndorfer and Heinz Wunderlich. Like them he suppresses the details and relies upon a certain accumulation of energy in the course of the piece. But he sounds also a bit technically insecure or nervous, and accordingly he cannot address all the energy in the direction he wants, something is lost in between. In principle I think his ideas are fine, but the realisation is not quite successful.

[Mandryka]

There is an error at youtube as to the prelude but the fugue comes through.

His style (articulation, tempo, stop changes) reminds me much of how this piece was played by late pre-authenticists like Franz Lehrndorfer and Heinz Wunderlich. Like them he suppresses the details and relies upon a certain accumulation of energy in the course of the piece. But he sounds also a bit technically insecure or nervous, and accordingly he cannot address all the energy in the direction he wants, something is lost in between. In principle I think his ideas are fine, but the realisation is not quite successful.

It was the ecstatic energy which I found so thrilling. Your mentioning pre-HIP has made me keen to listen to Walcha. I recall the first recording as being quite ecstatic, fast, fussy.

[Marc]

Fortunately a friend of mine manages OV... so I could make him have OV sign the booklet and not out myself as a pathetic groupie. But I wanted to be an organist as a kid, so I have an excuse for my infantile regression around organists. 

You must feel like a lucky little boy!

[Marc]

I downloaded the Kibbie cycle, but could never get myself to finish it:  sounded rather plodding and unimaginative to me.

I understand.

The only reason I would not suggest the Vernet cycle is because of price: it seems to be worth its weight in gold now that it is OOP.

Apparently (as Premont showed) the 'availability situation' differs per continent.

I rather liked the Hanssler cycle by various organists,  which is now available on its own.

Me, too.

I have found that cycles organized by sort of chronological order of composition (in as much as that can not really be determined for many of the organ works), with their mix of genres,  appeal to me more than those grouped by genre, with chorales all lumped together,  fugues all lumped together, etc.

Yes, I also prefer a 'concert program' organized disc, although I'm having less 'trouble' with entirely chorale-based recordings.

[jlaurson]

You must feel like a lucky little boy!

:-)  Yes. Except I rather didn't like the recital... which is a pity. It did more to expose my organ-ignorance as far as French & romantic repertoire is concerned... and I probably wasn't appreciative enough of the difficulties of playing that 1912 Rieger monster... not inherently suited to Widor et al.

[marvinbrown]

  THIS SET IS TO DIE FOR!!! :

  [asin]B0000041KD[/asin]

  The more I listen the more I want to listen.  I have been replaying CDs 10, 11 and 12!  It is far superior to the Ton Koopman set on Teldec. Koopman's embellishments get in the way. They obscure harmonic lines, passages, counterpoint.  Everything is so much clearer with Hurford.   For those interested Presto Classical is selling the FLAC (CD quality) of the Bach Hurford set for £50, which is what I paid for my used copy. The mp3 files sell for less.

    I'm still hunting for that 3rd set with the requirement that it be HIP. I have been referring to jlaurson's  web page but I still can't decide between Alain 3 or Weinberger (it would be nice to have the Art of the Fugue played on the organ  )??

  marvin 

 

[North Star]

    I'm still hunting for that 3rd set with the requirement that it be HIP. I have been referring to jlaurson's  web page but I still can't decide between Alain 3 or Weinberger (it would be nice to have the Art of the Fugue played on the organ  )??

  marvin

How about making a compromise and getting Foccroulle instead=  0:)
He has recorded Die Kunst der Fuge too, but it's not a part of the box.
[asin]B002JIBCRQ[/asin]
[asin]B003MY55BK[/asin]

[marvinbrown]

How about making a compromise and getting Foccroulle instead=  0:)
He has recorded Die Kunst der Fuge too, but it's not a part of the box.
[asin]B002JIBCRQ[/asin]
[asin]B003MY55BK[/asin]

  I completely missed this one.  Thank you for recommending this.    I'll have to look into this set.

  marvin

[Mandryka]

How about making a compromise and getting Foccroulle instead=  0:)
He has recorded Die Kunst der Fuge too, but it's not a part of the box.
[asin]B002JIBCRQ[/asin]
[asin]B003MY55BK[/asin]

I adore his art of the fugue, and I've been revisiting his Bach complete set recently. The Bach recordings are very early -- Art of Fugue is just three years old, some of the Bach is from the early 1980s. On the whole the big Bach box is a bit too middle of the road for me -- I appreciate the instruments he uses but of the performances I can't ever remember saying to myself "this is as good as the music can be" I'm hoping someone will think I'm wrong about that and show me what I've missed.

I want to like Foccroulle's recordings more -- on paper he's my sort of bloke -- serious, interested in cutting edge arts at the Aix en Provence  Festival, introverted, modest.

Art of Fugue is quite a different matter.

[Mandryka]

  THIS SET IS TO DIE FOR!!! :

  [asin]B0000041KD[/asin]

  The more I listen the more I want to listen.  I have been replaying CDs 10, 11 and 12!  It is far superior to the Ton Koopman set on Teldec. Koopman's embellishments get in the way. They obscure harmonic lines, passages, counterpoint.  Everything is so much clearer with Hurford.   For those interested Presto Classical is selling the FLAC (CD quality) of the Bach Hurford set for £50, which is what I paid for my used copy. The mp3 files sell for less.

    I'm still hunting for that 3rd set with the requirement that it be HIP. I have been referring to jlaurson's  web page but I still can't decide between Alain 3 or Weinberger (it would be nice to have the Art of the Fugue played on the organ  )??

  marvin 

Well, listen again to Koopman in BWV 656 and to Hurford in the same music and see if you still think that.