J.S. Bach on the Organ

[Mandryka]

anyone know of recordings of historical organs still in their original non-ET state (or at least some alternate later tuning)? apparently a lot of them have been re-tuned in the last centuries? it's been a real slog trying to find info

I'm assuming you're wanting recordings which feature significant amounts of music by JSB.



I don't think it's quite the right image for the second one. I mean Hans-Ola Ericsson playing early organ pieces by JSB, vol. 1 of his Bach survey. It's mostly on an early organ at Övertorneå which isn't meantone tuned, but it has  4 tracks the neo baroque organ in Norrfjärden church, Sweden. The Norrfjärden organ a reconstruction of the Övertorneå organ but IS meantone tuned. I think I've got that right 

It's quite an interesting thing to compare the new and old organs with their different turnings. I wish he had recorded more on the modern organ.


The first one, with music on the Treutmann organ at Grauhof, is also very enjoyable.

[prémont]

I don't think it's quite the right image for the second one. I mean Hans-Ola Ericsson playing early organ pieces by JSB, vol. 1 of his Bach survey. It's mostly on an early organ at Övertorneå which isn't meantone tuned, but it has  4 tracks the neo baroque organ in Norrfjärden church, Sweden. The Norrfjärden organ a reconstruction of the Övertorneå organ but IS meantone tuned. I think I've got that right 

Is this a physical CD, or is it only "available" on Spotify?

[Mandryka]

Is this a physical CD, or is it only "available" on Spotify?

I don't think there's a physical CD, but you can download losslessly here

https://shop.klicktrack.com/415870

[prémont]

I don't think there's a physical CD, but you can download losslessly here

https://shop.klicktrack.com/415870

Thanks. It seems as if it is going to be released on CD, so I think I shall wait for that.

[Jo498]

Just a quick question: Is the list of "HIP" (both playing and organs) recordings on the very beginning of this thread to be taken as recommendations or merely as information?

[prémont]

Just a quick question: Is the list of "HIP" (both playing and organs) recordings on the very beginning of this thread to be taken as recommendations or merely as information?

The list is first and foremost to be taken as a recommendation among the (by then) existing HIP-oriented recordings. It consists of recordings, which I value highly - and still do. To day a similar list would be much longer.

[Jo498]

thanks, that is a stronger endorsement than I had read from that first posting. It sounded a little like: that's what there is on HIP recordings that are not part of complete cycles without particularly recommending ALL of them.

BTW what is your and others opinion on the recordings by Alessio Corti? There is a person in a German forum who likes them a lot (but he is not particularly knowledgeable, certainly has not heard as many different versions of the music as many contributors here).

[Wakefield]

BTW what is your and others opinion on the recordings by Alessio Corti? There is a person in a German forum who likes them a lot (but he is not particularly knowledgeable, certainly has not heard as many different versions of the music as many contributors here).

I'm not more qualified than the person you mention; but I totally agree: Corti is excellent and his traversal was very well recorded.

Although he doesn't play historic instruments here, the Tamburini organs aren't a detriment to the enjoyment.

Unfortunately, copies of this set are quite expensive and thin on the ground. The perfect mix to become an obsession. 

[Que]

The list is first and foremost to be taken as a recommendation among the (by then) existing HIP-oriented recordings. It consists of recordings, which I value highly - and still do. To day a similar list would be much longer.

I got some amazing recordings from that list! 

Could we implore you to do an update? 

Q

[Jo498]

I'm not more qualified than the person you mention; but I totally agree: Corti is excellent and his traversal was very well recorded.

Although he doesn't play historic instruments here, the Tamburini organs aren't a detriment to the enjoyment.

Unfortunately, copies of this set are quite expensive and thin on the ground. The perfect mix to become an obsession. 

Thanks for your comments!
As I am not hunting for completeness, I actually got two 2-disc volumes embarassingly cheap, one with the Orgelbüchlein and fillers, another with the Leipzig chorale settings and a few T&Fugues. But I haven't really listened to them yet, they just arrived a few days ago.

While I have almost only praise for the contributions and wealth of information in this thread, it is a little unfortunate that for some/many contributors the standard unit seems to be a complete recording of the organ works...
I'd really find a "breakdown" helpful, both into the most important works, e.g. Clavierübung III, Orgelbüchlein, Trio sonatas, "great" Toccatas and Fugues etc. and also with comments about separately available recordings.
That's why I found that list at the very beginning helpful although there are some gaps, I think.

[prémont]

BTW what is your and others opinion on the recordings by Alessio Corti? There is a person in a German forum who likes them a lot (but he is not particularly knowledgeable, certainly has not heard as many different versions of the music as many contributors here).

From a musical point of view I find Corti outstanding. One may consider him an ideal syntesis of his teacher Lionel Rogg´s fluent naturalness and the learned expressivity of someone like Bernard Foccroulle. The weak point in Corti´s set is the two (modern)Tamburini organs he uses. Their sound do not make me associate to the sound-world of Bach organs. On the other hand I can not say, that they are  completely unsuited for the job, since they have some nice characteristics, among these a fine tonal balance. Much like playing his harpsichord works on a revival harpsichord (e.g. Neupert Bach-model).

[prémont]

Could we implore you to do an update? 

I shall se, what I can do. Give me the time I need.

[prémont]

Thanks for your comments!
While I have almost only praise for the contributions and wealth of information in this thread, it is a little unfortunate that for some/many contributors the standard unit seems to be a complete recording of the organ works...
I'd really find a "breakdown" helpful, both into the most important works, e.g. Clavierübung III, Orgelbüchlein, Trio sonatas, "great" Toccatas and Fugues etc. and also with comments about separately available recordings.

I will take this into consideration.

[Que]

I shall se, what I can do. Give me the time I need.

Yes please, no need to hurry!

I just ask this favour because the previous time it was such a big help .

Q

[Jo498]

From the little I have listened to (and I really have no clue about organs) Corti's organs sound somewhat neutral (or even bland) to me.
Both the East German Silbermann organs, even in the doubtful state of the 1960s/70s on that Bach auf Silbermannorgeln set (I have 5 disc of that one), and the supposedly authentic ones (Krapp's Clavierübung III or some in Weinberger's set) sound far more colorful, sometimes almost strange in their tone colors.

[prémont]

From the little I have listened to (and I really have no clue about organs) Corti's organs sound somewhat neutral (or even bland) to me.
Both the East German Silbermann organs, even in the doubtful state of the 1960s/70s on that Bach auf Silbermannorgeln set (I have 5 disc of that one), and the supposedly authentic ones (Krapp's Clavierübung III or some in Weinberger's set) sound far more colorful, sometimes almost strange in their tone colors.

You may well call the sound neutral, or with a term from Gordo "generic". But I prefer a neutral sound to a sound, which gives wrong associations as f.i. the sound of French romantic organs.

[Mandryka]

From the little I have listened to (and I really have no clue about organs) Corti's organs sound somewhat neutral (or even bland) to me.
Both the East German Silbermann organs, even in the doubtful state of the 1960s/70s on that Bach auf Silbermannorgeln set (I have 5 disc of that one), and the supposedly authentic ones (Krapp's Clavierübung III or some in Weinberger's set) sound far more colorful, sometimes almost strange in their tone colors.

I'm not sure how much this is a consequence of the organ, it may be part of Corti's interpretations.

Maybe try Corti's Leipzig chorales, which I enjoyed a lot. But maybe not, maybe try one on a well restored colourful old baroque machine, by someone who relishes orchestra style registrations, imaginative and unexpected combinations of sounds.  There's no shortage of choice.

[Que]

From the little I have listened to (and I really have no clue about organs) Corti's organs sound somewhat neutral (or even bland) to me.
Both the East German Silbermann organs, even in the doubtful state of the 1960s/70s on that Bach auf Silbermannorgeln set (I have 5 disc of that one), and the supposedly authentic ones (Krapp's Clavierübung III or some in Weinberger's set) sound far more colorful, sometimes almost strange in their tone colors.

I think you need this one from the list:


http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000028BTI/

Awesome!

Q

[Jo498]

I just got Krapp's Clavierübung III (on two separate discs with some fillers) which was also on "The List" and I have an older recording of a mixed program by Friedrich (Capriccio) on the Trost organ in Altenburg, so thanks for the pointer but I will save this for somewhat later (I think I will not buy anything else before January, at least I'll try to...)

[Que]

I just got Krapp's Clavierübung III (on two separate discs with some fillers) which was also on "The List" and I have an older recording of a mixed program by Friedrich (Capriccio) on the Trost organ in Altenburg, so thanks for the pointer but I will save this for somewhat later (I think I will not buy anything else before January, at least I'll try to...)

Krapp did not quite fly with me, so I opted for Friedrich.

Q