What are you currently reading?

[Florestan]

I'm only a few chapters in but from the introduction it sounds as though he intends to stop at 476.

Thanks, just as I suspected: as wrong as it gets.

[SimonNZ]

Thanks, just as I suspected: as wrong as it gets.

Okay. Without further information I'm going to assume you see the "fall of Rome" as happening in 753 BC when Romulus and Remus began an era of ecological destruction.

My second guess is that you date it to the arrival of the first "immigrant boat people" fleeing the war in Troy

[JBS]

Okay. Without further information I'm going to assume you see the "fall of Rome" as happening in 753 BC when Romulus and Remus began an era of ecological destruction.

My second guess is that you date it to the arrival of the first "immigrant boat people" fleeing the war in Troy

Wrong direction in time, I think. Remember that Andrei, being Eastern Orthodox, is in communion with the Patriarch of Constantinople but not the Bishop of Rome.

The "Second Rome" fell in 1453 CE. I would guess that is what he is referring to.

[SimonNZ]

Well, yeah, I was joking.

I guessed he was dating it the way Gibbon - who I still haven't read - does.

[Florestan]

Wrong direction in time, I think. Remember that Andrei, being Eastern Orthodox, is in communion with the Patriarch of Constantinople but not the Bishop of Rome.

The "Second Rome" fell in 1453 CE. I would guess that is what he is referring to.

Precisely. The so-called "Byzantine" Empire (a misnomer fabricated post factum for ideological reasons and wrong on multiple levels) was actually the Eastern Roman Empire which after the disintegration of the Western Roman Empire in 476 remained as THE only Roman Empire. The rulers in Constantinople (between 1204 and 1261 in Nicaea) never ever called themselves anything else that Emperor of the Romans (Basileus ton Romaion), their realm the Empire of the Romans (Basileia ton Romaion) and their subjects Romans (Romaioi). It fell on May 29, 1453.  As for Rome itself, it fell into a long period of insignificance in 402 when the capital of the Western Roman Empire was moved to Ravenna; it is in this latter city where Odoacer deposed Romulus Augustulus and sent the imperial insignia to Constantinople --- in itself an acknowledgment of the continuity of the Empire. Actually, from Octavian Augustus to Constantin XII there is an unbroken succession of emperors.

[vers la flamme]

Just resumed Mann's Doctor Faustus. I put it down about 1/3 of the way a few months ago. I find it extremely dense, but fascinating. After having finished Death in Venice a few days ago, which I loved, I've had an appetite for more of this author's work. I'm thinking of getting The Magic Mountain as well.

[Jo498]

The Magic Mountain is not quite as dense as Faustus although the latter might be relatively more accessible for lovers of classical music. Most of the shorter pieces (like Death in Venice which is probably the weightiest of the novellas and short stories) and most of the other long novels are rather more accessible as well. E.g. his debut "Buddenbrooks" or his last "Felix Krull".

[Mandryka]

Just resumed Mann's Doctor Faustus. I put it down about 1/3 of the way a few months ago. I find it extremely dense, but fascinating. After having finished Death in Venice a few days ago, which I loved, I've had an appetite for more of this author's work. I'm thinking of getting The Magic Mountain as well.

Magic Mountain is the one I've found most interesting, by far.

[vers la flamme]

I appreciate the feedback. I'm going to get my hands on the Magic Mountain I think.

[Jo498]

Although it's been almost 30 years that I read Dr. Faustus when I was 20 and I was maybe a little overtaxed, my favorite is also The Magic Mountain (and I re-read this about 20 years ago). Despite the confined setting it feels less contrived than Dr. Faustus. And one could also argue that Mann tried to put a little too much into the latter book. I mean, 12 tone music and the particular German relationship to music, Theology and the Devil, Nietzsche, syphilitic madness and finally the contemporary history between the wars including the 3rd Reich could suffice for at least three books.
I have not read the Joseph cycle (got stuck in the first book I tried which was not the first of the series but one a friend particularly recommended) and neither "Lotte in Weimar" and the one about that Saint or Pope. But I think I read all the other novels and most of the shorter prose although some of this is even more than 30 years ago when I was a teenager.  I think they are all less ambitious (and less "deep") than Magic Mountain and Faustus.

[André]

I couldn't get past the first half of Doktor Faustus. But I savoured every word of Buddenbrook, The Magic Mountain and the Joseph cycle at least 3 times each. The latter two figure among the handful of books I'd take to the desert island.

[AlberichUndHagen]

Speaking of Mann, I'm almost done with the first part of Joseph Tetralogy. Usually with Mann (as with Buddenbrooks and Magic Mountain) I often find the beginning the least good part. So far, this has been strictly speaking the exact opposite. I liked the beginning quite a lot because it had that certain Mann touch in it. Then it becomes a bit too much like reading the Old Testament itself (I do understand that it is inevitable, this is about characters in Bible after all but some parts of the book are a bit of a chore, rather impressive considering I've read Tolkien's Silmarillion, which I don't find hard to read at all while having heard some people in fact comparing it to reading Bible).

This is not to say that there are not interesting parts even after the beginning, merely saying that it doesn't quite have the quality of say Buddenbrooks or Magic Mountain. During this quarantine I've read far less often than before, which has contributed to my rather slow progress. I've focused more on playing games.

[Jo498]

Buddenbrooks is very entertaining and comparably "light". I have to try the Joseph books again eventually. The most recent one by Mann I read was "Felix Krull" (his last work although began already in the early years of the 20th cent.). This is also supposed to be quite light and it's certainly not bad but I don't think the theme (confessions of a womanizer and con man) lends itself so well to Mann's style. It's quite funny but too longwinded and slow moving for it subject matter. It's also technically a fragment and stops in the middle without really resolving many hints we get early on.

[AlberichUndHagen]

Buddenbrooks is very entertaining and comparably "light".

Agreed. I also love Royal Highness.

[vers la flamme]

Happy to have prompted this kind of discussion, I had hoped there were some enthusiasts of Mann's work here that might be able to point me in the right direction. I think it might be months before I finish Faustus, probably interspersed with reading other, "easier" books in the meantime.

[Jo498]

Royal Highness is also funny but I seem to remember that it tended to drag on a little later on. It was basically a wedding present with the female protagonist having many features of Mann's wife Katia, among others being a maths student. And there is a very funny description how notes on higher maths look to a layman.

[AlberichUndHagen]

One of my favorite parts is Klaus Heinrich's discussion with Alex Martini, the entire situation is so very farcical.

[vers la flamme]

I decided to start another novel by a 20th century German writer, Herman Hesse's Narcissus & Goldmund. I read a few of Hesse's novels back in high school but never this one. Hesse's simple, parabolic style is miles away from Mann's detailed, ornate, often verbose prose, but the two authors seem to be interested in somewhat similar themes. I have a feeling this will be an easier read, though I'm not giving up on Faustus, just allowing myself to take it more slowly.

I just got to the chapter where Leverkühn first devised his version of the 12-tone technique, very interesting. His rationale behind it definitely seems to line up with my understanding of Schoenberg's motivations for developing the technique, though as I understand it, there are very few other real similarities between Leverkühn and Schoenberg.

[Karl Henning]

Re-reading Geo. MacDonald's Phantastes, which is exactly the humane balm I need these days.

[Zeus]

Broken Faith: Inside the Word of Faith Fellowship, One of America's Most Dangerous Cults
by Mitch Weiss and Holbrook Mohr



This book, which just came out in February, caught my eye because I recently moved to Boone NC, not far from Rutherfordton, the location of the events described in this book.

I am just stunned and horrified by what is happening in that community.  Although I am only halfway through the book, the events described are growing progressively darker.  Moreover, my sense is that this evil is still ongoing.

There are plenty of books that seem like they could have been condensed into a long article.  This is a story that needs to be told in full.

An excellent book.  But very, very disturbing.